Solid Axle

[Fischer]

Ricky-venezuela,

Off subject...what kind of snorkel are you using?

If you have a pic. will you mail it to me?

fischer@explorerforum.com

Thanks!

 

[oso_polar]

well what about using a grand wagonneer? that has a 44 in the front and you can get em all the way to 1990... and im sure the jeep tranny will adapt to that.... just a thought.....

Hey, that exactly what chola's already did on his X's but I think the bolt pattern ist'n the same, and it has 6 bolts instead of five, so he change both, rear and front axles, by doing this he loose his odometer, speedometer, because it was hooking up into to the rear axle.... I really don't want to miss all this, so we were looking for another solution... coils will be a good choice, maybe a dana30 ist'n, but we are working on this....

I rather prefer a dana44 if we find some, but its not that easy, i was thinking about the bronco 76-77 or the newer one, cutting it down to the size and all of course, and I really don't mind going with springs over axle, is a lot more simple to desing since the newer X's don't have the traction bars brackets, or we will have to make a custom 4 link suspension sistem....

So we will look at many axles as possible, looking for a dana44 with coils and the same lengh as the explorer rear axle...(just dreaming)...

About the snorkel... is a custom made fiberglass snorkel, a copy of the safari snorkel for toyo's maybe i'll get the serial number of the snorkel they copied....here is a pic of it...
Dead Link Removed

I think the link will be block in some days but if you want click on my page and check on ricky's explorer and you will see his pics...

 

[JeepZJ]

i have a grand with a dana 30 up front. i swapped in a high pinion (reverse cut) dana 30 to replace the standard cut one. a hp front axle is about 30% stronger going forward than a lp. if you pick up a waggy dana 44 it will be a low pinion. the only advantage you get over the hp 30 is tube and knuckle strength. the hp 30 can be fitted with 297 u joints (97 and up wranglers) which are the same as dana 44 joints. i run a warn hub conversion to get manual hubs and my 30 is locked. i have 35" mt/rs and have had no problems. lots of people abuse the dana 30 with the 297 joint being the biggest problem. buy some ctm joints and a hub kit and you will have a pretty stout axle. a hp 44 out of a full size ford would be best. but you would have to cut it down. i also have the 8.8 out back. thanks ford! good luck.

 

[410Fortune]

Man you guys are jacking up the prices of our 8.8's! Get your own damn rear ends!!! Just kidding, the disc braked 8.8 goes right under those Jeeps perfectly doesnt it? Good choice.....

Now if I could just find something from a Jeep to swap over, then we can get you back, the only thing I;ve found so far are those 4.0L badges from the back of Wagoneer's!

 

[JoshC]

Well, i looks like i might be in the market for an old wagon. I actually saw one today that was sitting in the back of some guys yard with some parts missing and weeds all around it, it looked like it was his shed! But it still had the wheels and tires on it so i know he had axles!

What kind of suspension would you all recommend to conserve the money. Not sure who's explorer i saw a while back but they had leafs, what that yours oso_polar? I kind of like that idea of leaf, a lot simpler to rig up don't you think? Give me some more ideas.

Happy trails!!

 

[oso_polar]

Wast'n mine, it was Chola's explorer, but I got some ideas from his work... for example, the only steering box that he could fit down there, was a bronco steering box, but I don't know what year was it... another thing was about the coils, of course everyone want coils, but positioning everything under and IFS frame is not that easy, so he went with springs over the axle for more clearence... as for the transfer case, he made a custom part to replace the joint with the transfer case and the front shaft, I think he said "I replaced that piece of **** with this!!" but I don't remenber the name of the piece of ****... I have been talking with him to get more pics, soon I will take some more...

The shafts need to be lenghtened, of course... and a lot of money is involved in a project like this... My brother is an engineer and he always tell me:

" Why do you think you're more inteligent than a ford engineer, he spend nights and days designing that truck, and just like that you decided that is a piece of ****, and you wanna cut it down and throw it away so you can go wheeling no more than 20 times a year!! "

I only have one word for him... FIRESTONE!!...

 

[Jason_25]

oso- how much lift did chola get on his explorer?

 

[jasonb]

yeah.. i'd like to know how much lift he got too.

there has to be a way to do this without getting 10 feet of lift on the 95+ models! i just don't want to go over 5-6" since it's gonna be my daily for many many years.

 

[oso_polar]

LIFT...

We really don't get the exact amount of lift but here is a pic so you get your own conclusion...

At that time my X was with a 2" body lift, 1.5-2" TT and add a leaf, and 255/70 r16... Chola's X was with SOA in the front and rear, 35/12.50 r15 MTR and 3" body lift...
I guess you can go with spring under the axle, but if you're expending +1000$ to have a real xtreme off road explorer... why you should do that??

 

[Rick]

Anymore photos available yet? I would be glad to put them on the site.

 

[oso_polar]

I will call him to see what I can do, besides, I wan t the pics too

 

[CerOf]

Jeep ZJ is right on about the High Pinion Dana 30 compared to a low pinion Dana 44.

There is no real benefit from a Dana 44.

Yeah, I've owned two jeeps, still own one, and have had a 2wd exploder.

But seriously, with a reverse cut (High Pinion) Dana 30 axle, it will be WAY more than strong enough for 35 or 36" tires on an Exploder.

I know my WJ (2002 Grand Cherokee) is a V8 and I am almost certain it weighs more up front than any V6 explorer and it's dana 30 has held up incredibly well, just as good as my old '94 Grand Cherokee that was even heavier in the front with a 5.2L V8.

The width should be just fine, actually about .5"~1" wider, I base this on the fact that a '97 8.8 from an Exploder is about 1" more narrow than on a 1993-1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee.

One thing you want to remember when doing an axle swap running lots of lift is the pinion angle. A low pinion axle like a standard Dana 44 and Dana 30 will increase the potential for driveline vibrations.

A high pinion Dana 30 or High Pinion Dana 44 solves this by placing the pinion already some 5degrees steeper than a normal Dana 30. This allows you to angle the pinion back at the transfer case to get rid of driveline vibrations.

the axle shaft size is nearly identical from a standard D30 when compared to a D44. The extra $$ you'd spend on a low pinion D44, you could put towards a truss for the D30. A D30 (high pinion) has many gear ratios and uses the same lockers/limited slips that you find in a standard Dana 30. You have ratios up to 4.88 which is a-okay!

A D30 with premium Yukon high strength inner and outer shafts with CTMs, and a high quality ring and pinion, will handle a LOT, I mean a LOT of abuse. I'm VERY VERY fond of the skinny peddle, and with a limited slip in the front and rear (Detroit True Track) I never broke anything in my standard D30 with 31" tires and around 260hp and 350lbs torque. Quite a bit more than than the V6 an Explorer has and a bit more than a V8 Explorer has as well.

I think the issues would be doing the brackety, not the strength of the Dana 30 axle.

Now, if you've read through the above...I'm not flaming or anything like that...just tryin' to help out. I know D30 axles fairly well. yes, they are weaker than a D35...but they are the front axle, and front axles just don't take the abuse.

A High Pinion (HP) D30 build right is significantly stronger than a D35.

Anyways, good luck with your axle swap! If you have any questions, email me: Gdog Gdog Gdog Gdo I don't have all the answers, but I know where to get them!

 

[JoshC]

Very good write up, thank you very much. So how will we distinguish between the LP and HP when we are looking for an axle in a bone yard or something like that?

Happy trails!!

 

[CerOf]

Hi Josh!

This is how you distinguish between the low pinion and high pinion D30 axle.

The pinion is on the upper 3rd of the differential or "pumpkin" or "hogshead" or whatever you want to call it.

A normal or low pinion I do believe is right smack in the middle.


Go crawl underneath ANY Jeep Grand Cherokee and that is what a Dana 30 (normal pinion) looks like.

Now, go crawl under a Jeep Cherokee (XJ) or a Jeep Wrangler (YJ) that has SQUARE HEADLIGHTS (must be square headlights) an you will see what a reverse cut, high pinion Dana 30 axle looks like.


basically, a normal Dana 30 when moving forward, puts the torque to the "coast" side of the ring and pinion, the weaker side.

A High Pinion Dana 30 uses a reverse cut ring and pinion and puts the torque on the drive side of the gears.

So, if the ring gear and pinion looks like this: (///////////////) the HP (high pinion) puts the torque moving from right to left, the drive side...a low pinion Dana 30 or most any front axle for that matter puts the torque moving from left to right, on the "coast side" of the gear. See how it is easier to slip and not grab as well going from left to right than right to left?

I hope the above illustration makes sense.

So go crawl under the neighbors YJ (wrangler with SQUARE headlights) and the other neighbors XJ (Jeep cherokee) for good examples of what a reverse cut Dana 30 (high pinion) looks like.

Then compare it to ANY Grand Cherokee or TJ (round headlight newer wrangler) front axle and that is what a normal or low pinion Dana 30 looks like.

A mistake people often say is that a "reverse cut high pinion Dana 30" spins the opposite direction of most differentials....this is a myth, it spins the same direction as a regular Dana 30, just has the gears cut like \\\\\ instead of //////// (or vice versa, for illustration purposes only)

When you are applying the torque of your engine on the drive side, it is naturally stronger.

I read in this thread or another that Ford engineers spent hours and hours of designing what was best, etc, etc, etc.....yeah, true, but they design for what is most cost effective that will hold up to the #1 use of the vehicle that will take care of 99% of all the drivers....and lets face it....we all aren't doing this with a stock 2002 Grand Cherokee with 5,000 miles on the Odometer! (Or Ford Explorer for that matter!) http://community.webshots.com/photo/43166616/43171159rrceJv http://community.webshots.com/photo/43166616/43171399wqfNin

99% of us are getting these mainly:

or at the store getting groceries! so why the need for a D60 or dual Ford 9" axles? Or a Ford Sterling? heh, over kill for all but us 1% that do venture off-road.

 

[Jason_25]

Thanks for that info CerOf.

That helped me understand things alot better. Nice Jeep!

 

[Rick]

CerOf if the D-30 is as strong as you suggest don't you think Jeep would have used it in their Rubicon?

I have seen numerous D-30s in Wranglers that have been grenaded. Busted diff carriers, pinion shafts etc. They may work ok open, but through in a good locker and some big tires and it's just a matter of time.

The busted diff carrier is out of a D-35 front axle. If you don't think front axles take a lot of abuse you don't wheel very hard.

 

[94EBexplorer]

i will have to disagree with you... the front end DOES and i mean DOES take alot of abuse.... i mean it goes ever everything the rear end does.... i mean do you wheel in reverse? i still have to say the d30 is way much more weak .... you can do all you want to it to toughen it up... its not gonna take that much abuse with 36"s and a locks... and atlas II etc.... you can thoughen up a d44 and easily pu 44's to that....

 

[Randall]

I don't know about that. I don't think I'd feel comfortable with anything larger than 38's on a d44, and that would be with alloy shafts and CTM's. Without, I'd say 35's. For 44's you're talking Dana 60 territory. I'd trust a Dana 30 with 33's max, that's about it.

 

[94EBexplorer]

yeah i would wheel with 44's but i have seen plenty of broncos with 44's on their d44's im not going anything over 37's on my d44..... all im saying is all and all the D44 is stronger than the d30

 

[CerOf]

a low pinion D44 is not that much stronger than a D30 folks.

the axle tubes of the 44 are stronger, yes, but the actual axles themselves are not.

truss a 30, and pocket the extra $$ from a lp D44.

If you do a D44 up front, at least go HP so it is stronger.

a low pinion 44 is running the torque on the "coast" side of the gears, just as bad as a 30.

and fyi, I do wheel, like I stole it too. well, not on this new Jeep, need to build it a bit more, but on the last one...I did. Even our clubs bronco owners agree I wheeled the SNOT out of my last Grand Cherokee.

Either way, don't waste your money on a lp 44.

or, just say to heck with it, and go with a shaved D60, like a tera60 or a tera 50.