Son of a....

[Sandstone VR-4]

Ok... so the engine in the Explorer took a dirt nap and I've been busy swapping in a new engine. I was so excited to finish everything up, only to try and turn the key this morning to a "CLICK-CLICK". The engine's not turning over, so my guess is that something is binding in the transmission.

I'm wondering if maybe the torque converter moved forward in the bellhousing when I bolted up the flexplate, as one side of the bellhousing (passenger side) was murder to try and get torqued down and flush with the engine.

I've tried turning the crank pulley, but it won't budge a centimeter. Was turning fine when bolting the flexplate up, but the difficulty I had in torquing the bellhousing down on the passenger side has me thinking something there is the problem.

Do I just need to drop the tranny and try to re-allign with the engine now that it's back in the bay on it's mounts?

HELP! You have no idea how discouraging it was after all the work I put into the swap, just to find that it won't turn over...

 

[ponkotsu]

Ok... so the engine in the Explorer took a dirt nap and I've been busy swapping in a new engine. I was so excited to finish everything up, only to try and turn the key this morning to a "CLICK-CLICK". The engine's not turning over, so my guess is that something is binding in the transmission.

I'm wondering if maybe the torque converter moved forward in the bellhousing when I bolted up the flexplate, as one side of the bellhousing (passenger side) was murder to try and get torqued down and flush with the engine.

I've tried turning the crank pulley, but it won't budge a centimeter. Was turning fine when bolting the flexplate up, but the difficulty I had in torquing the bellhousing down on the passenger side has me thinking something there is the problem.

Do I just need to drop the tranny and try to re-allign with the engine now that it's back in the bay on it's mounts?

HELP! You have no idea how discouraging it was after all the work I put into the swap, just to find that it won't turn over...

Sounds like you didn't get the tranny lined up to the engine. You shouldn't have to fight it. If you are fighting and need to use a wrench, then probably not lined up. Hopefully you didn't damage the TC bearing, but good chance you did. Check it carefully after you drop the tranny.

 

[Sandstone VR-4]

Sounds like you didn't get the tranny lined up to the engine. You shouldn't have to fight it. If you are fighting and need to use a wrench, then probably not lined up. Hopefully you didn't damage the TC bearing, but good chance you did. Check it carefully after you drop the tranny.

Thanks for the feedback Ponkotsu,

Tried locating info for a TC bearing, with no luck. Guessing it's part of the TC assembly? If so... awesome. Thought I was going to be done working on this car for a while....

 

[ponkotsu]

Torque converter bearing. I've never done it, but I've heard you can damage it if not lined up correctly. I've only swapped in 3 engines in my life and it sure is a lot of work, especially lying on your back!

 

[imp]

The torque converter was most likely not seated all the way in the oil pump on the front of the transmission. The converter hub on it's back side has keyed flats which must engage in the pump; that's what turns the oil pump. If not engaged, converter hub is forced tight against oil pump rotor, might break it, or the casting itself surrounding it.

Sometimes the converter slides forward out of the pump, while jostling the trans up against the engine. I would loosen up the transmission to engine bolts, mover the trans back off the guide pins, back an inch or more, then try turning the crankshaft. If turns ok, take trans out, inspect for damage. imp

 

[Sandstone VR-4]

The torque converter was most likely not seated all the way in the oil pump on the front of the transmission. The converter hub on it's back side has keyed flats which must engage in the pump; that's what turns the oil pump. If not engaged, converter hub is forced tight against oil pump rotor, might break it, or the casting itself surrounding it.

So. Assuming that I have most likely damaged the pump, how difficult is the repair? I'm very unfamiliar with transmission work, as I've never had to dig into one. I also can't seem to locate "Transmission pump" on the websites for any parts suppliers...

 

[Sandstone VR-4]

So. Assuming that I have most likely damaged the pump, how difficult is the repair? I'm very unfamiliar with transmission work, as I've never had to dig into one. I also can't seem to locate "Transmission pump" on the websites for any parts suppliers...

Anyone? I've been doing quite a bit of reading since this SNAFU occurred and it seems like there should be a few people around who can give some pointers. Unfortunately, it seems that this has happened to more than a handful of folks who have pulled either the transmission or engine.

Any advice/help other members of the forum can provide are golden.

Thank you!

 

[03explorereb]

sandstone,
the pump itself is located behind the converter, and is what the converter snout slides into. it's the first thing you'd see after removing the converter. one thing that i didn't have you check in our pm's was the converter position in relation to the pump and to see if it was slid all the way back into the pump housing. one question though: if the engine is/was locked, how did you get to all of the converter studs to fasten it to the flexplate? if the engine was in fact turning over before the point at which you tried to start it then i am beginning to doubt that the converter not being fully seated is your problem. check my posts on fuel hydrolock and what happened to me a couple of years ago on a fresh engine swap. i think it might have been the one with the mustang engine i did, similar to what you are doing. it doesn't take a lot of fuel to cause a hydrolock situation. anyways let us know what you got going on.

 

[Bobmbx]

Years ago I swapped engines in a full size bronco. The "new" engine came from a manual tranny, and the Bronco was an automatic. We could never get the bellhousing to line up or seat fully. Finally I went to a mechanic for advice.

He asked if I had removed the [whatchamacallit] from the back of the engine. I said no. I can't remember what its called, but it sorta resembles a bearing that the shaft slides into. I had to use a slide hammer to get it out. The inside diameter of the "bearing" is smaller for manual trannys than for autos. Once I got that out, it slipped right into place. Of course, that was with a 351 Windsor ('80s vintage).

I don't know if the same parts still exist on newer engines.

EDIT: I think its called the pilot bearing.

 

[imp]

Years ago I swapped engines in a full size bronco. The "new" engine came from a manual tranny, and the Bronco was an automatic. We could never get the bellhousing to line up or seat fully. Finally I went to a mechanic for advice.

He asked if I had removed the [whatchamacallit] from the back of the engine. I said no. I can't remember what its called, but it sorta resembles a bearing that the shaft slides into. I had to use a slide hammer to get it out. The inside diameter of the "bearing" is smaller for manual trannys than for autos. Once I got that out, it slipped right into place. Of course, that was with a 351 Windsor ('80s vintage).

I don't know if the same parts still exist on newer engines.

EDIT: I think its called the pilot bearing.

It IS called the pilot bearing, and it's there to support the end of the transmission (manual) input shaft. It's ID is small, compared to the "snout" on a converter, so a manual trans. crankshaft must have the pilot bearing removed to allow the converter front hub to enter the crankshaft. imp

 

[Sandstone VR-4]

sandstone,
the pump itself is located behind the converter, and is what the converter snout slides into. it's the first thing you'd see after removing the converter. one thing that i didn't have you check in our pm's was the converter position in relation to the pump and to see if it was slid all the way back into the pump housing. one question though: if the engine is/was locked, how did you get to all of the converter studs to fasten it to the flexplate? if the engine was in fact turning over before the point at which you tried to start it then i am beginning to doubt that the converter not being fully seated is your problem. check my posts on fuel hydrolock and what happened to me a couple of years ago on a fresh engine swap. i think it might have been the one with the mustang engine i did, similar to what you are doing. it doesn't take a lot of fuel to cause a hydrolock situation. anyways let us know what you got going on.

I actually bolted the converter to the flexplate prior to bolting up the bellhousing, so it spun nice and freely when the flex plate nuts were getting put on. In conversation with imp, it appears that this was mistake #1 . I'm sure that this probably resulted in the coverter getting pulled from it's seat when trying to bolt the engine to the tranny.

I wasn't smart enough about bolting the bellhousing up and when I encountered resistance on the passenger side, I muscled that side down until I got it mounted flush with the engine. The drivers side was a piece of cake to get bolted, but I basically forced it down on the passenger side because I thought I needed to.

I tried to put the thing in neutral and see if I could push it, but it won't budge. You can actually see the engine torqueing slightly in connection with the effort I put into each push. I'm thinking I've really FUBAR'd something..

 

[Sandstone VR-4]

Soo... based on the assumption that I've damaged the pump, can anybody point me in the direction of a new one? I've been searching high and low, but can't seem to find one at Rock Auto, O'Reilly, etc...

 

[ponkotsu]

Never had to buy one. I think you need to go through a transmission parts supplier or OEM. Pull it out first and make sure its bad before spending money on one. Ebay might be a good source also.

 

[03explorereb]

Never had to buy one. I think you need to go through a transmission parts supplier or OEM. Pull it out first and make sure its bad before spending money on one. Ebay might be a good source also.

I second that. or find a local transmission repair shop who might have one laying around that's known to be low mileage and good condition. somebody needs to confirm for you what transmission pumps will work and what won't. that, my friend, is above my pay grade. I would think that most of the 55's (s,w,e) pumps would be interchangeable but that's definitely not the gospel.