Solved Still NO brakes!

[IronCurtain]

I did. And bench bled it first.

Maybe it's bad?

 

[Mbrooks420]

I saw. It’s not terribly uncommon to get a bad one that’s been rebuilt.

I’d take it back for a replacement. If you’ve bled the brakes thoroughly and bench bleed it very cautiously, it should be easy to get it back in pressure.

 

[CDW6212R]

I saw. It’s not terribly uncommon to get a bad one that’s been rebuilt.

I’d take it back for a replacement. If you’ve bled the brakes thoroughly and bench bleed it very cautiously, it should be easy to get it back in pressure.

I agree, the master cylinder should be the main item keeping it from building pressure.

 

[IronCurtain]

Been working a ton haven't had much time, but a couple weeks ago I had a helper to bleed the brakes. Not much has changed, except that now, I can pump the brakes and get pressure, but it won't stay. As soon as I release brake pedal, after a few seconds push back down, it goes to the floor again with little stopping power.

When I pump the pedal, after about the 5th pump, the brakes feel GREAT I can tell all 4 are being used, and the car will stop like it's supposed to. But as noted above, soon as I release for a few SECONDS, when I press down again, the pedal goes to the floor, I have next to no brakes again, except for the small amount from the rear brakes. It's enough to stop, eventually, and to keep the car from moving if I have my foot on brake and put it in drive or reverse, but it's not even close to safe.
And there are no leaks whatsoever, anywhere.

Any ideas? Should I still replace master cylinder AGAIN?

 

[Mbrooks420]

Did you replace it a second time? Or are you still on the first replacement?

 

[IronCurtain]

Replaced once.

 

[Mbrooks420]

It’s free. I’d have replaced it before messing with it the last time.

 

[410Fortune]

I think we have been over this no?
If there are no leaks in the system
Your rubber brake hoses do not look like balloons
You press the master cyl down and it sinks to the floor
The master cylinder is bad, has bad seals in it

My guess is
It is not your booster
It is not a leak in the system
It is not air in the ABS pump
Fluid is going around the seals in at least one chamber in your master cylinder.

A brand new master cylinder can be bad
A out of box re manufactured master cylinder can also be bad

A new part will go bad if the pedal is depressed too far during the initial bench bleeding

and when first hooked to the system
If you press the pedal too far the seals will blow out
ask me how I know

When bleeding the system first time do NOT SLAM THE PEDAL TO THE FLOOR
Your helper needs to be soft on the pedal and press it 5/8 of the way until air is removed and pressure is building....once all 4 calipers are bled the first time and you have pressure, then you can mash the pedal all the way down.....
Otherwise you will need to install another master cylinder

 

[IronCurtain]

Thank you for your help, and patience, I'm extremely grateful... I'll replace the m/c, bench bleed and do as you describe in your post, and report back.

 

[IronCurtain]

Well... Idk if it's the m/c. . I took both lines off the m/c and plugged the 2 m/c holes where the lines go in, and then when I push the brake pedal.. It's rock hard, doesn't move more than an inch. Still could it be a bad m/c?

 

[IronCurtain]

I also took apart the old m/c, and cleaned everything up. Looked at the seals, but didn't notice any wear and tear or cracking, splitting, fraying, or anything. I know probably doesn't mean **** if I can't see it doesn't mean it's not fugged up. Some pics of the old m/c apart. Inside also looks free of any scrapes, scratches or dirt or anything.

 

[Mbrooks420]

You’re losing pressure somewhere. Air wouldn’t compress and give a good pedal, and go away. As far as I can tell, you either have a leak, or a bad master cylinder.

I’d want to try something new, and since it’s free, you have nothing to lose. You can keep bleeding the lines, and get no results, or you can try something different. I can’t think of any more options to try.

 

[IronCurtain]

I also took apart the old m/c, and cleaned everything up. Looked at the seals, but didn't notice any wear and tear or cracking, splitting, fraying, or anything. I know probably doesn't mean **** if I can't see it doesn't mean it's not fugged up. Some pics of the old m/c apart. Inside also looks free of any scrapes, scratches or dirt or anything. (Oops I meant to post this a couple hours ago... Apparently I never did!

Anyway.. I put the old m/c back together, bled it, then installed it. Way more pedal resistance when key is off... And with car on, it only takes 2 or 3 pumps of the pedal and it builds enough pressure to stop the car really well. I'll bleed all 4 calipers again, and if no change I'll buy a new, top of the line m/c and put that in.

 

[Spudhut]

Thanks for the update

 

[410Fortune]

"Well... Idk if it's the m/c. . I took both lines off the m/c and plugged the 2 m/c holes where the lines go in, and then when I push the brake pedal.. It's rock hard, doesn't move more than an inch. Still could it be a bad m/c?"

Well done, appears the MC checks out?
No leaks in the system anywhere? Front brake lines are good? (not balloons)


Then it MUST be air in the ABS pump....
to get that air out you need a scanner that can activate the pump while bleeding OR go get the ABS brakes to activate, which will push the air downstream and it can be bled.......

Hang in there! It appears that your master cylinder is good, if it is solid as a rock when the lines are plugged then it points to a leak in the system.

 

[gmanpaint]

There is just something about the 95 and it's brake system. I have had a heck of a time with mine as well. I even deleted the ABS system out of frustration. Still have issues now & then with the pedal.

Another option:
Try a long slow gravity bleed, with a fluid feeder bottle & catch bottles. Crack open all 4 bleeders a hair, and let them drip for a few hours. I made catch bottles with old water bottles and a clear tube thru a hole cut in the caps. A vac pump kit I have, has a feeder bottle for it, and I use it a lot, as I am on my own. You can buy these individually for cheap.

 

[donalds]

I still say use forscan to activate the pump
And open the valves
I pushed the petal while running the pump but I don't think you or I needed to

 

[IronCurtain]

I still say use forscan to activate the pump
And open the valves

I have a 95... I believe forscan will only work on years 96 and up or am I wrong about that?

 

[donalds]

Oh I'm sorry I thought ford incorporated obd1 in 95

 

[IronCurtain]

Believe it or not my EX has the plug for Obd2, but it doesn't connect to anything. I guess they were getting ready for the next year 96, when Obd2 started.