swappin in a C5-C4 need help

[Hotweels]

OK the 700r4 thing is cool and all but times are a bit lean around here and i need a tranny.
I know coryL has done this swap and maybe a few others so i have a few question hope some of you have answers.
#1 i need a 84-85 C5 from a Bronco 2 compleat from tail shaft to flex plate right?
#2 i need a C4 valve body and torque converter?
#3 will i need to do any drive shaft work, shorter/longer?
#4 obviously i will need a new shifter
what am i missing?

 

[410Fortune]

4.0performance.com

 

[Hotweels]

yep thats awsome info for a 2wd C4 install.....
but what i want to do is take a C5 from a 84-85 2.8 V6 B2 or ranger 4x4 so i dont need to change my T-case.

 

[Hotweels]

hehehe ok i found some of the info cory's build up thread, only took 6hr's of reading read on if yer interested.

This is a conglomeration of Cory’s posts as well as some from the Ranger boards
There is some conflicting information here but I’m just gathering it. If someone finds something conflicting or untrue PLEASE let me know. I’d hate for me or anyone else to get in the middle of something like this and find out it’s impossible

Yeah, its easy.
It has to be from a 2.8 donor vehicle and it will require the flexplate and torque converter from the same vehicle
Remove current tranny, remove current flexplate, retain flexplate space , bolt on C5 flexplate, bolt on C5 TQ converter, bolt up C-5.
I am going to have to run a longer tranny fluid line to the front as the C5 has the input and outputs spaced further apart than the A4LD did.
You will also need to move your tranny crossmember forward about 3"-4". This means new driveshafts. I need new ones anyhow, so its not an issue.
Also you will need to use a B&M shifter or the like. I am going to use a B&M Quicksilver shifter. The stock linkage is way too long and it looks like a custom bracket would need to be made.
The C5 from BII's and Rangers in 84-85 had a 1350 t-case behind it. So any Ford t-case with a 5-bolt pattern and a 25 spline input should work. I know for a fact that the BW1350 and BW 1354 will work. I'm sure some of the newer ones would too. CoryL’s post

Not sure where I found this but it falls in line.

note use the small case C4. (dip-stick goes in the case)
for the tranny use a tranny from a V8 small block engine, get a bell housing from a 2.8 75 to 78 mustang II or the bell housing from the 83/84 bronco /ranger. Now it gets difficult. Someone
correct me if I am wrong! The flywheel has to be from the 2.8 ranger/BII, the torque converter, starter also from same year of ranger/BII. This way all match up.

This is some torque converter specs I found

BW1350 & BW1354
The 1350 and 1354 are both 3-piece aluminum part time transfer cases. They both transfer power from the transmission to the rear axle and when actuated, also the front drive axle. The unit is lubricated by a positive displacement oil pump that channels oil flow through drilled holes in the rear output shaft. The
pump turns with the rear output shaft and allows towing of the vehicle at maximum legal road speeds for extended distances without disconnecting the front and or rear drive shaft. The 1350 has a splined front receiver where the front drive shaft slides in. The 1354 has a yoke on the front that accepts a u-joint and holds it in place with straps. The 1350 and 1354 are produced as a mechanical shift and electronic shift.

The 1350 and the 1354 are mechanically identical, with the 2.48:1 ratio. The 1350 has a splined output shaft for the front drive shaft, the 1354 has a u-joint yoke. 1354 is newer so some revisions were probably made. I'm not sure if you can swap the output shafts on them, but I wouldn't see why not.

This is an Email I got from a guy who has done this very mod.

I would think the transfer case wouldn't be too much of a problem assuming the explorers have electronic controlled t-case (no linkage to mess with). I believe all the t-cases in that category have the same bolt patterns. I know when I bought my C-5 I got the t-case with it and it bolted right up to the A4LD. What can I say? It was laying there and as curious as any gear head is, I tried it and it worked. The only deal is the older bronco2/ranger t-cases have a yoke for the “rear drive shaft?” where the newer versions have a flat flange. They will still interchange from what I could see. Both the yoke and flat flange versions are fastened on a splined tail shaft with a locking type nut that can only be removed/attached with and impact.
I’m told the 3.8 v6 that were in 80's and up RWD T-bird/cougars auto tranny models, came with C-5’s and were also supposed to be the same block/bell housing bolt pattern as the 4.0. So if that's the case considering the bell housings are removable and are both C-5’s I believe it's possible.


1350/1354 Flange & Yoke Conversions
My 1983 Ranger used the small 2.5-inch wide u-joint and 2-inch drive shaft. The Rangers flange had a 2-1/2 inch spacing between bolt holes and the flange on the Explorer 8.8 rear axle I installed had a 3-inch spacing between bolt holes.
My drive shaft wouldn't bolt to the new 8.8's flange, so I decided to have a new one built. I could have found a flange for the 8.8 that would accept the 2.5-inch u-joint in order to retain my original shaft, but I wanted to beef things up a bit. I got rid of the yoke on the transfer case and replaced it with a flat flange from a 1986 BroncoII BW1350 transfer case. I now have a flat flange on the axle and on transfer case, with a 1310 u-joint at each end secured in flat flanges. The drive shaft then bolts in flange to flange. These flat flanges allow the bigger u-joints and eliminate the weak u-joint straps at the transfer case.



Ford Explorer/Ranger/Bronco II configurations
'83-85 4x4 Rangers/Bronco2(2wd also) with NON-OVERDRIVE Automatic transmission
will be a C-5
'83-85 Ranger 2wd automatic will be a C3.
'85-94 Rangers/Bronco2/Explorer 2wd & 4x4 with OVERDRIVE will be an A4LD
'85-88 Rangers with NON-overdrive automatic trans
(essentially 2.0 carb engine ONLY) will be a C-3
'85-94 Aerostars (all engines) will be equipped with the A4LD trans
'89-94 2wd & 4x4 Rangers/Bronco2/Explorer will be equipped with the A4LD Overdrive
automatic trans with the exception of SOME '88-90 special-ordered fleet vehicles with
2.0 engines that will have C3 automatics.

'95-01 Rangers (2.3/2.5) will have the 4R44E trans.
'95-01 Rangers and Explorers with the 4.0OHV or SOHC will have the
4R55E trans standard Some trucks were also equipped with the 5R55E
(5speed automatic)

Lastly, Transfer cases.
'83-89 The Borg Warner 13-50 part time 4wd T-case
For '89-'92 some models were equipped with the 13-50 T-case
and others were equipped with the Newer & Stronger B-W 13-54.

the 13-50 was made in several variations, but these were limited to
Electronic or manual shifted versions, and several output flange connection
variations.
The rear output flange was either a "half moon" yoke ('83-85) or
a "flat" flange ('86-91).
The front output flange is either a slip yoke (almost all) or a bolted-on
"halfmoon" yoke (Ranger STX models with the "Highrider" factory 2" lift kit)

ALL 1990 4.0 equipped Rangers used ONLY the 13-54 T-case
All 1993 and later Rangers (all engines)
Explorers ('91-94) used the B-W 13-54.

Sorry about the long post but I thought everyone would be able to use the information if they are willing to give up the overdrive. I know I am. Thanks for putting up with the long post.

originaly posted by marvin-the-martian..... thank's man

 

[Hotweels]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I’m told the 3.8 v6 that were in 80's and up RWD T-bird/cougars auto tranny models, came with C-5’s and were also supposed to be the same block/bell housing bolt pattern as the 4.0.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



The 3.8L shares the same bolt pattern as the 302/5.0L, so whatever tranny is attached to that motor will NOT bolt to the 4.0L.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

...equipped with the Newer & Stronger B-W 13-54.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



The 1350 and 1354 to my knowledge are identical in terms of strength internally.

1354 utilizes a yoke for the front output whereas the 1350 uses a splined input which makes the 1354 stronger at the driveshaft

 

[410Fortune]

Let us know how this goes, when my custom A4LD kicks the bucket I will go C4.

Also everyone is always so concerned about getting a new driveshaft. Driveshaft modifications are usually the cheapest thing when considering a conversion like this.
For my BII I grabbed a 4 door Ex d shaft, had it fitted with stout U joints (1350 I believe) and had it shortened to match my lift. It was like $200 total, thats nothing compared to the cost of adapters, floor shifters, etc.

If I was you I would retain my column shifter if possible. An aftermarket floo shifter will work too, but then removing the column shifter is a PITA.

I used a 86 BII floor shifter with the bell crank and solid linkage. This causes the tranny to jump gears when flexing the truck off road, the flex between the body and frame are just too much for thelinkage. The problem with the A4ld is no aftermarket shifter has the P N R OD D 2 1.with your c4 you will be fine with a cable operated floor shifter, or you can modify the letters on your column shifter.

 

[JoshC]

Thanks for the long post. I read it all. I'm also interested in this conversion. I'm hoping to buy a diesel next spring, so maybe next year sometime i could do this. I'm anxious to see how you come out on this.

 

[Hotweels]

Well i hit about 8 wrecking yards yesterday and only found 2 C5's, 1 is a 2wd version and some asshat stole half the gut's outta it and the other was located on a parts net search and is about 4hr's north of me.
seem's the going price is $500cdn for a good looking C5 (if you can find em) i also asked a few places how much for a A4LD... $900 plus core 60day warante
hmmmm let's add that up C5, new shaft's, floor shifter, small parts and about 15-20hr's install time works out to around $1200 (hi end guess).
But this part makes me smile a bit, got the D44 just sitting in the garage waiting for the gears to show up and i knew i would need new shafts anyway plus this makes the radius arm mount/tranny cross member thing a bit less challenging.
Just a few more payday's and i will be taking delivery of a C5

 

[bobby walter]

Remove current tranny, remove current flexplate, retain flexplate space , bolt on C5 flexplate, bolt on C5 TQ converter, bolt up C-5.

installing a torque converter on a flex plate and then trying to bolt the trans to the engine is retarded. seat the converter to the trans first or 3 out of 10 times you will bust something. you have to seat the splines of the tranny input with the splines in the converter and dont let it fall forward as you install the tranny. this means as you go to stab the tranny on the block you have to line up the torque converter bolts to the holes in the flexplate while lining up to the block dowels at the same time. once that is done, start two bolts and get it almost together and check and make sure you can move the torque converter back and forth with the stud through the flex plate hole.. then snug the tranny to the block. make sure you still got some play in the converter before you bolt everything up.

The problem with the A4ld is no aftermarket shifter has the P N R OD D 2 1.

all truck mega shifter and regular mega shifters have this option. the 700r4 has the same pattern and the mega shifter work excellent.

""I?m told the 3.8 v6 that were in 80's and up RWD T-bird/cougars auto tranny models, came with C-5?s and were also supposed to be the same block/bell housing bolt pattern as the 4.0.""




The 3.8L shares the same bolt pattern as the 302/5.0L, so whatever tranny is attached to that motor will NOT bolt to the 4.0L.

a c5 is a c5 is a c5,c4,c5,c4,c4,c4....its reletive to what bell you bolt onto it just like the c4.

personally with a swap to one of these trannies when running a 4.0 i would use the stock lockup c5.

the c4 and c5 went in just about everything so all you need is a small 6 bell to use it with a 4.0 along with the 2.8 flexplate..

if you want a 4x4 version you either have to run a c4 eb output shaft and extension housing with eb d20 transfer case or use a c5 4x4 ranger/b2 output shaft and extension housing on any 2wd c5 or c4.

4 the serious 4x4 guys wanting to upgrade theres even more options.
so lets say you get a freshbuild beefed 2wd c4 setup from a guy that upgraded to a c6 or raped aod, and you want to replace your a4ld with it in you 4.0 sploder you thouroughly enjoy beating the fawk out of off road............ you can further beef this situation by using the c4 eb output shaft and the eb d20. you can twin stick this d20. this is a nice option cause it allows 2wd low with the hubs locked for the guys with lockers in the front axle too.(and those of ya that dont have lockouts but a front locker will really benefit from this) combine this with front drive only(hi or low) as an option too. next thing you know you will be pivoting yourself oround obstacles with this setup adding a whole new dimension to your wheeling experience and abilites.

the case can be a ***** to fit and will require comprimises in some non body lift situations but it is an option i dont seem to notice anybody doing i figured it worth mentioning, so if your swappin to a c series for the offroadability, look around for a cheap eb setup.

the eb d20 has an excellent low range too, 2.69 to 1 and if i remember right there used to be lower gearsets available.


also something to consider, if you are swapping from a manual 4.0 application to this setup you will want to use the 4.0 automatic starter, but since most guys are junkin a4ld's this wont be a problem cause its a bolt on..