Synthetics in older engine?

[rookieshooter]

Why would anybody wait 25,000 miles to change oil. I like the concept of synthetic and will probably use it. But is Amsoil purposly leaving out the issue of contaminants in there chart to sell more oil by going so long. I would like to see a comparison on an engine that was on dino oil and changed every 3000 compared to syn. oil at 25,000 that was driven in stop and go traffic and on short runs where the condensation has had no time to evaporate out in cold weather and so on. Not to mention normal wearing down of metal parts. And then see the condition of the bearings and all metal surfaces including the cross hatch pattern in the cylinders after 200,000 miles. I just rebuilt an Acura engine with over 200,000 miles and then used plastigage on the bearing surfaces and was still in specs. and that was with dino oil. By the way the rebuild was for different cams and pistons to up the HP not because the engine needed rebuilding. But a non-biased test done both ways would be interesting.

 

[boring92xlt]

Wow! Looks like this is a hot topic. Can't say I really expected this many replies, this quickly.

Somebody PM'd me, asking what gas I used, and if the X is stock. I don't really know if I replied correctly or not, but even if I did, I guess I'll throw the info out here, too. this was my reply:

<quote>
I use whatever is cheapest along my driving route. The mileage has remained the same whether that is Mobil, Amoco, Hess, whatever . . . except for a couple of times when I got bad gas, and had lots of problems until I filled up with some good gas; or when I've neglected her and she was in need of a tune up.

I got her with 143,000 miles on her, and to the best of my knowledge, she is 100% stock under the hood - I think she may still have the original fluid in the tranny! But, they DO claim that you "never" have to change it in a 5 speed, right?
</quote>

sorry, I wasn't going back to find it so I could quote it properly.

Now, I'll go read through y'alls posts, and see if there's anything else I need to mention.

 

[aldive]

Why would anybody wait 25,000 miles to change oil.

I would like to see a comparison on an engine that was on dino oil and changed every 3000 compared to syn. oil at 25,000 that was driven in stop and go traffic and on short runs where the condensation has had no time to evaporate out in cold weather and so on.

Maybe to save money? UOA proves that I can. To each his.her own; if you want shorter OCIs, by all means do it your way. Just remember others want extended OCIs and safely achieve them.

The web is full of synthetic oil studies validating extended OCI.

Synthetic oil in combination with bypass filtration, verified via UOA, may allow me to go a lot longer for a OCI.

 

[rookieshooter]

I'm not say that syn. oil will not out perform dino. oil. Like I said in my post I will probably use it. That will be in my 302 v8 flyweight B11 after proper breakin. I like the idea of syn. oil having less friction thus runs cooler. It must be so good at this that it is not recommended for break-in of new engines. At least this is what I heard.
My point is how can one control the contaminants in a engine for that long between oil changes. The tests that one gets back from the labs are after the fact. Yes, if I knew that anti-freeze was not going to leak into the oil because I used gaskets that could never go bad or condensation that was not a problem. I live in an area that this is a problem or that bearings never would go bad. These are things that are found in the tests from Blackstone or whoever. Then I would certainly wait that long. But these are factors that I can not control 100% I do not want to send in samples at 8000 miles and have to pay for them, to have them tell me I have anti-freeze, sulpher, water or whatever in my oil. Again all this is after the fact. I will run the syn. oil but will not go 25,000 miles before changes. I will not send in any samples to anyone but rather change oil no where near 25,000 and just do a simple look at the condition of oil, check coolant levels and such. Sure if you do go that long with know trouble then you are ahead. But by checking sooner rather then later I may see something that needs to be addressed sooner. Thus saving me a major engine overhaul and even more money. These test reports with micron this and micron that is like trying to split a frog hair in half. Just good old common sense is all that is needed. But good luck in your pursuit.

 

[98Explorer4x4]

I agree with rookieshooter on this. Call me old fashioned but I'm not into the synthetic stuff yet.....

 

[Longjohn119]

How long are you going between oil changes now Al? I was thinking 3000 for the first because it will get a lot of the gunk out and then going to 5,000 mile intervals after that.

I figure with the higher cost of dino oil with a 5000 mile interval the cost of using synthetic will end up about the same as dino and a 3000 mile interval ... I also expect the price of syn to drop as more and more people go to it because of the higher dino oil prices

 

[jayhawkexplorer]

Aldive goes 25,000, as Amsoil recommends, if I remember right.

I swear we have this exact same conversation on here every week. Every week.

 

[aldive]

I agree with rookieshooter on this. Call me old fashioned but I'm not into the synthetic stuff yet.....

How many years did it take some people to realize the world was not flat?

 

[aldive]

How long are you going between oil changes now Al?

With the bypass system in place ( http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126111&highlight=bypass+oil ), I hope to go 50k. We shall see what the UOAs have to say about it though.

 

[FL Oil Guy]

Al once the Dual-Remote Filtration System is installed if you elect to use oil analysis testing then you DO NOT need to change your engine oil unless oil analysis testing results indicates you need to. Test samples are easily pulled from the dipstick tube with an AMSOIL pump into a 3 oz bottle and then put into a postage paid box mailed to Oil Analyzers Inc. This is typically performed every 15,000-20,000 miles or every year, whichever comes first for passenger vehicles and light duty trucks. You may very well travel several hundred thousands of miles without needing to change you oil when using oil analysis testing. It really is a simple process and provides an accurate analysis of your engine's internal condition. Oil analysis testing is common practice with commercial, fleets and heavy-diesel equipment that you can put to use for your benefit as well

 

[aldive]

Al once the Dual-Remote Filtration System is installed if you elect to use oil analysis testing then you DO NOT need to change your engine oil unless oil analysis testing results indicates you need to. Test samples are easily pulled from the dipstick tube with an AMSOIL pump into a 3 oz bottle and then put into a postage paid box mailed to Oil Analyzers Inc. This is typically performed every 15,000-20,000 miles or every year, whichever comes first for passenger vehicles and light duty trucks. You may very well travel several hundred thousands of miles without needing to change you oil when using oil analysis testing. It really is a simple process and provides an accurate analysis of your engine's internal condition. Oil analysis testing is common practice with commercial, fleets and heavy-diesel equipment that you can put to use for your benefit as well

I have been doing VOA and UOAs for years. I use Blackstone ( Dead Link Removed ).

 

[FL Oil Guy]

I know you do. I follow your posts, I enjoy your mileage quest. I pushed my sons Toyota camry over 42 mpg. I just want to let you know you don't have to change your oil at 50k with the dual by pass. My sons Camry has over 300,000 and we did 10 oil changes no by pass system, and the engine and transmission have never been opened yet... My explorer, I have the dual by pass and don't change the oil just the filters every 30,000. My hats off to you on the over 30mpg. I have only been able to top 25 mpg with the control trac 4x4 with an agressive tire tread. I believe you are 2 wheel drive? Now with the gas price increase I am concentrating on the fuel burn per hour in my Donzi. Have a great day...

 

[Lynnrb]

deja vu

How many years did it take some people to realize the world was not flat?

This reminds me of the controversy over multi vis oils many years ago (showing my age). Now no one would think twice about using multi vis oil.
In deed the world is still flat.

 

[HardTech]

My new Royal Purple/K&N filter change costs me $50. And I get maybe 1 mpg better.

Well if you go the most expensive way out there then yeah its not gonna be cheap, but you knew this from the get go.

All syn oil with a good filter comes to 27 bucks. Dino oil when I did have it like 2 years ago came around 20. So 7 bucks difference.... I think i get the benifit out of it in 4 gallons of gas

As for old engine, changed min at 102k miles. And its been running great since. Runs better now then when i got the old girl. She keeps me on the road, i keep her in shape.

 

[aldive]

All syn oil with a good filter comes to 27 bucks.

Not exactly.

Amsoil Series 2000 SAE 0W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil: (1) quart bottle = $8.70 or $43.50 for a change. And an Amsoil oil filter wil add another $11.50. A total of $55.20.

 

[HardTech]

Never heard of that brand (if wally world doesnt carry it, or a major chain outles I dont see it), just going with what the local engine guy in the area suggest. Hes been in the bis for about 40 years now. So I can take his word for it. Helped my dad put an engine in a old 1960 ranger, and a 1976 thunderbird. Guys really nice, and knows his stuff. Only thing hes unsure of and has this younger guy for is some of the weirder engines (aka rotary engines is a good example),

So far his advice has kept our family away from his shop for 10 years now

Personly I couldnt not spend more than 30 bucks for syn oil if you have to change it 3-4 times a year. Granted my explorer only changes 2 times a year, but still.

Still if you go the most expensive way out there. I personaly have never heard of a $50 oil change. I always figured people where getting riped a new one Ahh growing up in a family of car nuts with no money will do this to ya.

Atleast I dont take my grandfather advice, hes had this theory for years (atleast ever since ive known him, 20+).

cheap store brand dino oil, and filter can go 6000+ miles (if check doesnt come in, then the filter can go 12k miles )

Transmission never gets serviced or open at all. If it works dont mess with it.
Peoples old tires can be used for your vehicle because they have good life still
Parking brakes never go out
JB weld fixes all
The fix a radator works if you put in 4 bottels

And if anything works, dont mess with it.


Funny thing is, he has a old as heck (1950) ford truck with orginal engine (1 overhual at 100k years ago 15+) and orginal transmission (no work done). Going on 379k miles with this logic. Starts up first try, leaks no oil or burns it, and the transmission shifts smooth as silk.

 

[aldive]

Never heard of that brand (if wally world doesnt carry it, or a major chain outles I dont see it),

Personly I couldnt not spend more than 30 bucks for syn oil if you have to change it 3-4 times a year. Granted my explorer only changes 2 times a year, but still.

Still if you go the most expensive way out there. I personaly have never heard of a $50 oil change. I always figured people where getting riped a new one .

Amsoil was the first synthetic oil. Take a look at https://www.amsoil.com/.

Why would you need to change oil 3-4 times a year?

Do a little reading about synthetic oil; you'll be suprised what you will learn.

 

[jayhawkexplorer]

Well if you go the most expensive way out there then yeah its not gonna be cheap, but you knew this from the get go.

All syn oil with a good filter comes to 27 bucks. Dino oil when I did have it like 2 years ago came around 20. So 7 bucks difference.... I think i get the benifit out of it in 4 gallons of gas

As for old engine, changed min at 102k miles. And its been running great since. Runs better now then when i got the old girl. She keeps me on the road, i keep her in shape.

I don't know where you get $27, I guess it could be one of the Mobil 1 sales at Wal-Mart for $20/5 quarts. You must buy a Fram filter to go with that good oil then, which is silly to me. I get Royal Purple for around $5.50 a quart ($5 a quart is standard for Mobil 1, Q, Pennzoil Synthetic, etc.) so I'm not paying much more. And I use a K&N filter because if I'm using the best (or 2nd best, besides Amsoil) oil, I might as well use the best filters too.

 

[Skibum1989]

Series 2000 Amsoil if bought thru this site's vendor (cincy4point0) will cost you about:
55 dollars for 5qts & filter, Amsoil reccomends changing this oil every 35,000 miles/1 year. (as aldive mentioned earlier)

Or theres the 27 bucks for dino & filter for 3000 miles/3 months. Now...

-If you change your oil based on distance traveled, you will end up changing your dino oil around 11 times before you change your synthetic oil once. The cost difference is $55 synthetic to $297 dino. Amsoil will save you $242 over 35,000 miles.

-If you change your oil based on time between oil changes, you will end up changing your dino oil 4 times before changing synthetic oil once. The cost difference is $55 synthetic to $108 dino. Amsoil will save you $53 over one year.

When you get past the sticker shock and do the math, amsoil is definitely cheaper in the long run, plus its basically the highest quality oil you can buy for your car.

 

[Longjohn119]

Mobile One at Walmart last week - $19.95

Motorcraft oil filter at Walmart - $3.50

Iowa sales tax (7%) - $1.64
----------
Total - $25.09

25 bucks twice a year (I only put 5-6k on a year) for quality syn and filter seems like a no brainer to me ... I could probably go with one change a year with Mobile One without any problems .... actually I bought 4 of the Motorcraft oil filters, I doubt Walmart is going to carry them that long