The Black Pearl SAS and build | Page 9 | Ford Explorer Forums - Serious Explorations

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Well now that Im Elite i figured Id start a thread to document my SAS build...

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Join the Elite Explorers for $20 each year or try it out for $5 a month.

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The EB and full size bkos are 5.5 inch outside diameter coils @gmanpaint we went over this already:banghead::thumbsup:... They are 5.5 od coils... With 6 inches of lift over stock
 






OK, I'm not positive, but I think early Bronco coils work better on Explorers

EB coils are what most use... But I had them so I used them lmao. Not too worried about it With having the adjustable upper coil buckets. I have 5 inches of adjustment.
 






Last night while messing with the track bar and drag link I kept looking at the coils, track bar mount locations, drag link position and angle as well as the radius arm cross member.

In a fit of coffee induced confusion, I pulled the RA cross member out and let the front axle (with the help of the coils) move where it wanted; at ride height, full weight and with the 35s on it.

As I was suspecting, the front axle rolled forward a about an inch, maybe a bit more.

So I have decided to build a new set of radius arm frame brackets
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Most are made from 1/4 plate but I do have some 3/8 if I'm feeling froggy.

Also, the coils sit much more straight then they did, with some minor tweeking of the axle position I think it will work out better for the coils and track bar.

Edit: I would give credit where credit is due... but i have no idea where this picture came from, it was just in my saved SAS stuff. But if it is yours.. let me know and ill give you a shout out!
 






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Well after looking over a few websites and not being really sold on their link brackets for one reason or another i decided to build my own. 1/4 plate for the 1.25 heim joints.

I only got one done, my 6 year old son walked into the shop with a bat, ball and glove and wanted to play baseball... in 34 degree weather. SO we went and threw the ball around for a while and i never made it back into the shop, priorities right?
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I know this is a RBV but i had saved this a while ago and was thinking about the way they had the track bar mounted... You can see it is behind the axle. I dont remember who's rig it is but i do remember that is it working well for them.

Just exploring some ideas before burning in the track bar. IIRC they did this because they moved the axle so far forward that there was no room for the track bar...

What does everyone think? I am not sure if it will work for my application due to the location of my drivers side shock tower (f250)
 






Well after fighting to drill out a stupid 3/4 hole in a messily piece of 1/4 plate. i picked up a 5 piece set of step bits. 1/8 to 1-3/8 and got the second bracket setup and welding. My brackets are definitely tight. Might actually have to spread them a little to be able to slide the hiems in place when the brackets are mounted to the frame.

Thinking i might reinforce the brackets a bit more to plating to the side of the frame, or make a big "C" to capture as much of the frame as possible. We will see what the weekend brings.

Also need to modify the trans mount on the passenger side, to be able to clear the joints. Thinking since the Xmember wraps around the bottom of the frame, and mounts to the out-board side, i might make it like the drivers side, and have it mount to the inside, and bottom of the frame... Thinking i am going to run to the local wrecking yard and grab a trans crossmember and hack the drivers side off. and weld it to the passenger side.
 






Well after adjusting the front axle, I think I am going to build another set of radius arms.

I have a spare set of stock arms, I think this time I am going to plan to move them back about another 12 inches (the hiem joints), wrist the passenger side, notch and bend them and add add a few degrees of caster to them, added casters should help out with the springs as well..

If I can carefully cut the square tube inserts out I will reuse them. If not, I will just buy a new set.
 






My RA are Duff arms and are 43" long. That seem to be the sweet spot for SAS RA's. I am not sure I would wrist extended length arms because it would make them very unstable. I guess if it is too much, you could just leave the bolt in. The Duff arms have bushings at the axle that reduce binding, which allows them to flex like crazy.
 






I did some quick measurements (tape butted up against the back side of the RA "C"), with regards to ordering more 2" square tube for the RAs, two 48 inch sticks would be a few inches more than about what i would need, plus the heim joints so i would think that about 43" is going to be about right.

@BKennedy is that 43" measurement from the end of the RA (that sides over the axle.)

Also, I have been thinking about just going 3-link...
 






Hmm. So I missed most of this, but I am trying to get caught up.

Bob Meyers over at RRORC used to make some lower coil buckets with some caster built into them to help with coil bow. I don't know if he still does.

I like BC broncos Early Bronco coils best on a rbv- and I have tried a butt load of them. They have the lowest spring rate of anything I have found and you can get them in .5" height increments. I am also a firm believer that a longer coil mounted on the same suspension as a shorter coil will travel better. That is why I am running their tallest coil on full height f150 buckets. And they do travel like crazy.

I will be honest with you- there are a lot of parameters in tension when you are solid axle swapping and I believe the coil bow is one of the least important. I have driven them 100,000s of highway miles with coil bow and wheeled many miles and never had an issue. The more valuable variables to worry about are caster, pinion angle, keeping those rear radius arm mounts high and out of harms way, moving the axle forward to clear the firewall with big tires, clearance for the drag link/ tie rod, flat tracbar, etc. Coil bow is at the bottom of the list. It is only an aesthetic thing.
 






Thats a good point @Kirby N.

I have been thinking 3-link in the front as well, between all the things that would go into fab'ing the new radius arms i might as well go 3-link.

At a crossroads right now with just running what i have so far and see how it goes, building new arms or going 3-link.
 






Sorry, the Duff RA's are 43.25" long (10.75" longer than stock EB RA's), measured from the center of the axle. I have attached the installation guide for my Duff RA's. When I did my SAS, I pushed the front axle forward 2" to get farther away from the firewall, and it worked out perfectly.

http://www.dufftuff.com/v/vspfiles/instructions/5351ltr.pdf
 






Yeah i am thinking that is about what i would re-do the arms to after the axle rolled forward.

If you have a minute. What is your wheelbase? I have been measuring from the center of the axle tubes.
 






Hmm. So I missed most of this, but I am trying to get caught up.

Bob Meyers over at RRORC used to make some lower coil buckets with some caster built into them to help with coil bow. I don't know if he still does.

I like BC broncos Early Bronco coils best on a rbv- and I have tried a butt load of them. They have the lowest spring rate of anything I have found and you can get them in .5" height increments. I am also a firm believer that a longer coil mounted on the same suspension as a shorter coil will travel better. That is why I am running their tallest coil on full height f150 buckets. And they do travel like crazy.

I will be honest with you- there are a lot of parameters in tension when you are solid axle swapping and I believe the coil bow is one of the least important. I have driven them 100,000s of highway miles with coil bow and wheeled many miles and never had an issue. The more valuable variables to worry about are caster, pinion angle, keeping those rear radius arm mounts high and out of harms way, moving the axle forward to clear the firewall with big tires, clearance for the drag link/ tie rod, flat tracbar, etc. Coil bow is at the bottom of the list. It is only an aesthetic thing.

The coil bow you are speaking of, is the bowing condition where the center of the coil spring is forward of the top and bottom mounting points?

Or are you speaking of the type of bowing that occurs when you use full width axles, and factory width upper coil mounts on the RBVs?

The bowing I am talking about is a forward type bow (i pushed my upper mounts all the way to the bulge in the frame on the drivers side)

(You can see it will on the picture I posted at the top of this page)
 






I am talking about all of them. My narrowed 44 in my explorer had both types. 1 from the lower mounts being to narrow for the uppers, 2 from the stock radius arms being mounted so high in the rear ( I used stock 2x4 f150 radius arm mounts to get them high). My ranger does both too, even though I narrowed the lower cs to accommodate my frame width and I have duff extended arms mounted high. My buddy’s full size bronco with a solid 44 that I built has both too. I am not saying it isn’t annoying, and looks bad, I am saying it is low priority because it doesn’t affect performance.
 






Ok that is awesome to hear. I really haven't seen much on how they performed. I was all over google last night looking at forums from EB and FS broncos/f150s to RBVs jeeps and some chevy stuff too.

Seems to be a big problem, the only solution I could find (of any kind) was with the rear springs on Heeps and it is just a little "correction plate" assuming the heep springs are smaller O.D. than the 5.5 BKO stuff I didn't look much further into those.

If its not a big deal I think I will just "run what I brung"

I think I still might rebuild my RAs, a few inches longer and wrist the passenger side. I would like to know why @BKennedy is against that idea (in more detail). I am open to any/all suggestions. I haven't seen anything but good reviews on wristed passenger arms. Maybe I should do more research on EXTENDED wristed arms and see what people are saying.
 






I have ran both. My explorer was waisted and my ranger is extended. I think the explorer wristed arm had more unrestricted travel/ didn’t affect body roll. That can be good or bad- depending on the situation- it why a lot of guys are running tunable sway bars (like the Currie anti-rock) on long travel rigs now. I liked the unrestricted travel a lot. It was stable and rock crawling the front really articulated well and soaked up anything/ traveled around anything. What I didn’t love with the wristed setup was having to pin and unpin the arm. It also clunked on the road. That’s why I chose extended duff arms for the ranger. They travel well still and do push the body around more when they really get bound up, but they still travel really well. A lot of how they push the body around has to do with how soft and balanced the rear suspension is too, I suppose. On both rigs I have worked to build a flatter a multi leaf rear pack that has a lot of travel available and is soft. The ranger particularly I got long leafs in there and that helps since the rear is so light.
 






This rig is going to be mostly off-road with the occasional on-road use (when i want to mess with the "off-road" trucks in the area) or feel like driving to work.

All i really need to make a new set of arms is about 8 feet of 2x2x.250 square tube and some 1.25 square adapters. I was going to cut out the inserts on the arms i have now but the inserts are cheap so i figure ill save the time and cut off wheels and just buy new.

I mounted the crossmember back up last night and where the axle sits now the new arms wont be much longer, an inch or two, sucks but the axle and springs sit much better now (along with the trac-bar, etc) so i guess i will just work on wristing the passenger side and making the drivers side i bit longer... ugh.
 



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After some research on the EB/FSB forums i think i am going to stick with extended arms.

The biggest problem with the wristed arm i have found is, the drivers side arm (fixed arm) will twist under extreme articulation if not reinforced well, and getting the pin in/out of the wristed arm. There are a few comments on the axle tube spinning in the diff housing.
 






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