Timing chain breaking down - need advice

[jamie8470]

I have an 04 4.0L with 160,000 miles on it. I purchased it 6 months ago for $4250 and have since put in ~$6000 in repairs (mostly suspension work).
Now I find out that one of the rear riming cassette guides has partially broken - engine still runs but the guides are breaking down. The broken part likely fell into the oil pan.
I imagine I will be quoted between $3k-$6k to have this repaired and I have $18k in the bank but don't make much money.
What would you do in my situation? Just have the timing chain(s) done? Replace the entire engine? Just looking for some perspectives. Thanks

 

[Fix4Dirt]

I have an 04 4.0L with 160,000 miles on it. I purchased it 6 months ago for $4250 and have since put in ~$6000 in repairs (mostly suspension work).
Now I find out that one of the rear riming cassette guides has partially broken - engine still runs but the guides are breaking down. The broken part likely fell into the oil pan.
I imagine I will be quoted between $3k-$6k to have this repaired and I have $18k in the bank but don't make much money.
What would you do in my situation? Just have the timing chain(s) done? Replace the entire engine? Just looking for some perspectives. Thanks

can you do the work yourself? if so then id retime it and what not. these bottom ends are very very stout, so that isnt an issue. now if it jumped time id say put a low mileage running engine in, but it isnt broken yet. if you are paying a shop, then it may be worth some other housekeeping stuff on the motor, or throwing a reman one in

 

[jamie8470]

can you do the work yourself? if so then id retime it and what not. these bottom ends are very very stout, so that isnt an issue. now if it jumped time id say put a low mileage running engine in, but it isnt broken yet. if you are paying a shop, then it may be worth some other housekeeping stuff on the motor, or throwing a reman one in

The engine is still working perfectly it's still presumably timed properly, it's just the cassettes seem to be on the verge of breaking completely.

I have no way to do this job myself and I'm not super mechanically inclined anyhow. What else should I get replaced?

 

[mountaineer2004]

Only because you've put a lot of money into the vehicle already, I'd advise to go ahead with the repair...or drive it till it stops, and then install a reman engine.

Any new car is expensive, and another used one is a crapshoot, so maybe just fix what you have.

 

[Fix4Dirt]

Only because you've put a lot of money into the vehicle already, I'd advise to go ahead with the repair...or drive it till it stops, and then install a reman engine.

Any new car is expensive, and another used one is a crapshoot, so maybe just fix what you have.

^^^^^^^^ sound advice here

The engine is still working perfectly it's still presumably timed properly, it's just the cassettes seem to be on the verge of breaking completely.

I have no way to do this job myself and I'm not super mechanically inclined anyhow. What else should I get replaced?

when you do the guides have em reseal some stuff like the RMS (they all (ok 99%) seem to leak) and maybe the upper pan gasket, depending. over than that these sohcs are stout, very seldom is there a lash adjuster issue etc. make sure they replace all the guides, however, and imo delete thr balance shaft if it has one

 

[Lee's Automotive]

^^^^^^^^ sound advice here

when you do the guides have em reseal some stuff like the RMS (they all (ok 99%) seem to leak) and maybe the upper pan gasket, depending. over than that these sohcs are stout, very seldom is there a lash adjuster issue etc. make sure they replace all the guides, however, and imo delete thr balance shaft if it has one

Yep id replace guides and chains or just get a reman engine

 

[Fix4Dirt]

Yep id replace guides and chains or just get a reman engine

why chain too? if it isnt badly stretched

 

[Stynx]

These things have the 5 speed trans that goes bad. Mine did, 3k to fix it. That said, given that these are 15+ year old vehicles if the interior and body is sound and without significant rust, it may be worth repairing. I had to dump a fair amount of time and money for the EGR valve, alternator, brakes and rotors but was able to do all that work myself.

If you decide to keep it, have every drop of fluid replaced, oil, coolant, trans fluid, differentials, power steering and brake fluid, everything. At this point if it hasn't been maintained all that will be burnt and need replacing.

 

[jamie8470]

These things have the 5 speed trans that goes bad. Mine did, 3k to fix it. That said, given that these are 15+ year old vehicles if the interior and body is sound and without significant rust, it may be worth repairing. I had to dump a fair amount of time and money for the EGR valve, alternator, brakes and rotors but was able to do all that work myself.

If you decide to keep it, have every drop of fluid replaced, oil, coolant, trans fluid, differentials, power steering and brake fluid, everything. At this point if it hasn't been maintained all that will be burnt and need replacing.

As far as I know she's actually in pretty good shape. Been in AZ her whole life so rust shouldn't be a problem and the interior is good. I just had diff fluid done, changed oil twice so far, changed coolant myself when I replaced the thermostat housing. According to records, trans fluid was done 20k miles ago, power steering and brake fluid should be good until at least next oil change. I do feel it's worth it to replace the rear timing kit it just really sucks and I don't get to drive her from now until at least April. I have a feeling I'll be quoted something insane too

 

[jamie8470]

Quoted 6k to replace both timing chain kits, water pump oil pump. About what I expected TBH. *sigh*
Well now I know I'm forking over the 1.5k for BTF lift now and offset wheels. Hope this girl lasts a long time to come after this.

 

[Fix4Dirt]

Quoted 6k to replace both timing chain kits, water pump oil pump. About what I expected TBH. *sigh*
Well now I know I'm forking over the 1.5k for BTF lift now and offset wheels. Hope this girl lasts a long time to come after this.

hm interesting it was back n 2020 but iirc got quoted like 3k to pull and replace those, but id say 6k is on the higher end but ig still somewhat within the range id expect. though for that price can a reman be dropped in?

 

[jamie8470]

hm interesting it was back n 2020 but iirc got quoted like 3k to pull and replace those, but id say 6k is on the higher end but ig still somewhat within the range id expect. though for that price can a reman be dropped in?

I asked about it and it would be a few thousands more. They're saying my engine is in good shape otherwise even at 160,000 miles so I'm thinking this is my best option. Many places I called weren't even willing to do this job. I was also told this could easily turn into a 6k job by the guys who found the problem at the shop back up in Prescott so this seems like a legit price. Still sucks though. As long as my tranny doesn't blow (never been replaced, but fluid changed properly) I hope this is the last thing I have to worry about for a while.

 

[Fix4Dirt]

I asked about it and it would be a few thousands more. They're saying my engine is in good shape otherwise even at 160,000 miles so I'm thinking this is my best option. Many places I called weren't even willing to do this job. I was also told this could easily turn into a 6k job by the guys who found the problem at the shop back up in Prescott so this seems like a legit price. Still sucks though. As long as my tranny doesn't blow (never been replaced, but fluid changed properly) I hope this is the last thing I have to worry about for a while.

hmm ok probably shop prices have risen since i got quoted for that before, seems to have at least

 

[Fix4Dirt]

and yeah was just checking since 6k at the rate i knew pre covid should've gotten a reman too

 

[Stynx]

$6k? Ouch. At least it's not a rust belt truck. We made a decision to fix ours mainly because other than some minor cosmetic stuff it's in such good shape that it's worth fixing. if we can get a few more years out of it all is well.

 

[efBrianM]

Now I find out that one of the rear riming cassette guides has partially broken

If your considering repairing that engine, stop driving it right now. That cassette will only get worse. If it jumps time, then you have to be concerned about valve damage.

 

[C420sailor]

These vehicles are not economical to own if you pay a mechanic to do your work.

Just wait until that tranny goes—I’m sure it isn’t far behind if it hasn’t been rebuilt yet.

Make sure that quote includes using Ford OEM parts. If they use Cloyes timing kits, it won’t last long

 

[efBrianM]

Our '01 needs a timing set also. As far as the brand of parts to use, I'm a little confused as to the Ford recommendation, when these engines have a history of timing component failure. Did Ford make an improvement in the quality of the parts, especially the plastic?

 

[jamie8470]

If your considering repairing that engine, stop driving it right now. That cassette will only get worse. If it jumps time, then you have to be concerned about valve damage.

Yeah that already happened I think when the cassette first broke. I had a valve head cover gasket replaced, then stopped driving it. There was oil evaporating our of that hole when the engine was running.

These vehicles are not economical to own if you pay a mechanic to do your work.

Just wait until that tranny goes—I’m sure it isn’t far behind if it hasn’t been rebuilt yet.

Make sure that quote includes using Ford OEM parts. If they use Cloyes timing kits, it won’t last long

Well, ****. Ford exploder. I put too much into this truck already to stop now. I'll ask about the parts they're using.

Our '01 needs a timing set also. As far as the brand of parts to use, I'm a little confused as to the Ford recommendation, when these engines have a history of timing component failure. Did Ford make an improvement in the quality of the parts, especially the plastic?

Good luck

 

[Fix4Dirt]

Our '01 needs a timing set also. As far as the brand of parts to use, I'm a little confused as to the Ford recommendation, when these engines have a history of timing component failure. Did Ford make an improvement in the quality of the parts, especially the plastic?

yessir after 02 the trnsioners were improved and the guides had addl backing plates on it vs the original 3 leaf i believe it became 5 or 6 leaf so yes they were improved. i think composition was also changed