Transmission Fluid Changes

[94Eddie]

That's very true. But it doesn't need to be a huge pan, like the very long 6R80 pan. Just a small hand sized pan would do. That could be enough to get a filter off, and get a look at the lowest point where material builds up.

I think a lot of engineering choices for cars these days have to do with pinching every penny and but mostly for planned obsolescence. Why else would they make maintenance so difficult and recommend such long fluid changes for critical components like transmissions, PTUs, differentials etc. It seems like they just want to engineer things to last just beyond the extended warranty period and then have things begin to fall apart.

 

[CDW6212R]

Ditto, that's also part of why they make things difficult to swap among year models etc. Thanks for the reminder of the PTU, I need to do my last truck's AWD, the Mercon is about 25k miles old now.

I've been looking at the later Ford V6 engines and trans, to upgrade the old SOHC 4.0 and 5R. I'll be retired soon, and the truck will be just a spare vehicle. So the 3.7 may be a slow project for me, to play with that and the 6R trans.

 

[peterk9]

Thanks 94Eddie for answering my next question! Since folks are talking about the dreaded internal water pump, I was wondering when folks were preemptively replacing it.

It probably will be less expensive to just the Ford ESP and be covered for other items as well.

Peter

 

[94Eddie]

It probably will be less expensive to just the Ford ESP and be covered for other items as well.

Peter

Ditto on this. We opted for the extended warranty on our Edge (now expired) for $1,500 and it paid for over $5k in repairs. I wouldn't own a new vehicle these days without and extended warranty unless it is paid off AND it has been very well maintained. By maintained I do not mean to Ford's recommendations but 30k-40k fluid changes for the transmission and PTU/tranfer case, 5K or less oil changes, 60k coolant/brake fluid/power steering replacement and 100k differential fluid replacements. Even then there could still be massive repair costs relating to electronics failures. It seems like with every generation of vehicles they become more susceptible to being repair totaled when they are out of warranty. Also, I would not own a vehicle with a turbocharged engine outside of having a warranty, period.

 

[whimsey]

We have a 2017 XLT 4X4 with the 2.3 EB and a 2005 4.6 Eddie Bauer. Changing the ATF in the 2017 is a breeze to do in the driveway, the 2005, NOT! I drive the 2017 onto ramps the night before I'm going to change it and leave the new fluid outdoors with it. The next morning I drain cold 4 quarts, all the time, using the bottom drain plug. I add 4 quarts "cold" through the vent cap fill. The first drain at 12,000 miles was a murky silver black mixture. At 22,000 miles it was less silver, still black. At 32,000 miles it was a "darkish" red. Last changed it a 50,000 miles, now at 73,000 miles. I'll do it in late fall with the oil change. With the 6F35 transmission it's easier to change the ATF than do an engine oil and filter change. If you keep your vehicles to the ~200,000+ range then doing more frequent ATF changes is cheaper than replacing the transmission, especially since it's so easy do do with this transmission.

 

[94Eddie]

We have a 2017 XLT 4X4 with the 2.3 EB and a 2005 4.6 Eddie Bauer. Changing the ATF in the 2017 is a breeze to do in the driveway, the 2005, NOT! I drive the 2017 onto ramps the night before I'm going to change it and leave the new fluid outdoors with it. The next morning I drain cold 4 quarts, all the time, using the bottom drain plug. I add 4 quarts "cold" through the vent cap fill. The first drain at 12,000 miles was a murky silver black mixture. At 22,000 miles it was less silver, still black. At 32,000 miles it was a "darkish" red. Last changed it a 50,000 miles, now at 73,000 miles. I'll do it in late fall with the oil change. With the 6F35 transmission it's easier to change the ATF than do an engine oil and filter change. If you keep your vehicles to the ~200,000+ range then doing more frequent ATF changes is cheaper than replacing the transmission, especially since it's so easy do do with this transmission.

The next pan drop I do to my Mountaineer (with a 6R80) I am replacing it with a pan that has a drain plug. Dorman makes a good one they sell for around $30 shipped. I am adding a magnetic plug to it in addition to swapping the OEM magnet to the new pan. I do pan drops around 40K mile intervals and won't be installiing a new filter every time so having this drain plug is going to make servicing so much easier.

 

[jr230]

Hi Ron,

I did a drain and fill about 10k miles ago at ~45k miles. I'm curious, at 150k, how did the transmission fluid look?

I don't think there is a bypass. Which transmission do you have? Mine has the 6F50. All it has is a drain plug at the bottom. I'm not sure how you would even add a bypass.

With respect to the filter, the only way I know to change it is to split the case open. That means dropping the transmission, tons of labor to do that.

at 300k you might as well do what you been doing, milage wise just when you check fluid level look and smell if its chaned collor drastically or you smells burned try changing again but it is an indicater its getting close to end of life. btw your licky to have a dipstick for trans the 3rg gen had no dipstick. pita i have a 99 stick shift and changed it 3x but the clutc skave went out so tyring to decide to fix or not. the 04 bought as a cheap truck but i dont expect to have it real long so i do maintance but not extra the 03 was a ckunker and i needed a car quick so i bought a fugative from junk yard and got a year out of it it went to garden after i stripped parts for the o4 only cjaing between 3 and 4 is egr setup. as for auto much of what i read never have it or p/s flushed just chang. radiators cabn get flushed but even thats rare to do with newer onesand 04

 

[collinstm57]

Our 10 Fusion is the same Crappy design. At 40 - 50 K they start shifting hard. I drained, filled and add 1/2 bottle of Seafoam Trans tune. Stopped the hard shifting and other problems. Oh and reset the Tranny controller, make it relearn (Find Mako Techs video). Issues resurface if I don't include the Seafoam.

I also keep the fluid changed every 15 - 20 k with the Seafoam. AZ heat is really hard on the fluid. We had 2 of these Fusions and they both had the same issue at the same mileage. We traded one off before I found these secrets.

Also do the same for my 04 Explorer. Works well.

 

[Havfun]

When I did a preemptive replacement of the water pump on my 2011 Limited. I decided to keep this thing forever. Im no car guy, so all I know in terms of required maintenance is what's in the owners manual. and Im learning that that's probably not a good thing, given the fact that there is nothing in the owners manual about the water pump issue

Regarding the transmission.
Per the owners manual, I had transmission service done at 150000 miles Im at 300000 miles now, and I learned that all that was done at 150000 miles was a drain and fill, which means only 4 quarts have been replaced in 300000 miles. And Im also learning that service every 150000 miles is probably not enough.

So heres what Im doing.. Im in the middle of replacing all the oil, 4 quarts at a time. At each oil change, Im draining 4 quarts out of the transmission and adding 4 quarts,,,, Which brings me to my questions.

I know that the transmission filter cant be changed, Which makes no sense to me at all. I mean, why have a filter to catch contaminants if it cant be changed? What happens if the filter becomes clogged, is the flow of oil impeded. or is there a bypass? And my big question: does it make sense to add an external filter?

150000 miles interval is not enough. I'm not sure why Ford has that in their manual. I hope you have a toe package in your limited. What is appropriate varies depending mostly on temperature during operation and a toe package includes a transmission fluid cooler which keeps it cooler. Your climate and driving habits also affect fluid temperature. You can check with some others on this but here is a rule of thumb. if you have a toe package that includes a cooler and you drive in what the manual calls normal driving and you don't often toe anything then you can do a drain and fill every 50-60k miles and probably be ok. If you toe regularly or don't have a cooler and don't toe, I would cut that interval in half. I've never heard of a transmission that doesn't have a replaceable filter and given the history of your limited, i'd replace it. You'll need to drop the pan and its a little messy. At this point I'd recommend as you mentioned, doing back to back drain and fills until your fluid looks pretty good, maybe 3 or 4. Alternatively you can do a complete fluid replacement but that gets more involved and folks usually go the drain and fill route. Once you've replaced the filter and completed multiple drain and fills, you can resume the rule of thumb I mentioned. Your transmission will thank you!
Opps: I'm afraid I posted without seeing that there were other replies on top of mine. I may have missed some details about the specifics of your transmission.

 

[MattHoss]

Man, 300,000 miles! I'm envious.... I also had a 2011 limited and did the drain a fill method at 125,000 miles. I was hit with the water pump issue but didn't think I could do the work myself. I also had the timing chain replaced. About 3 months after the water pump the truck acted up again which I thought was a VCT solenoid issue, but was diagnosed to be the variable timing oil control valve. I was tired of chasing issues so I sold it. Been driving a 2014 LR 4..... Still a Ford right . I will say, at times I do miss my 2011 limited. I wish you many more miles.

 

[Pinout]

I can give you info from my experience. Bought my 13 XLT with 50k, checked the manual and it says 150k for fluid replacement. The fluid was already dark brown, no burnt smell. No way I was going to wait 150k. Did a drain and refill and used 4.5 qts, I measured the amount drained first. The I found an interesting spreadsheet, it´s called Partial Drain Helper. You will put the total transmission fluid capacity (in my case is 10.8 qts) and the quantity refilled. That will tell you the % of old and new fluid and projection of how many quarts you will need to reach a desired %. In my case I was shooting for 93% new fluid but ended getting to 96% for a whooping 6 drains and refills. That was after months. At first I did 1 drain and refill each week and after 4 you get about 88%, which is pretty good. Then I did the 5th at the next oil change and the 6th just for the kicks. Many people criticized this method because it wastes a lot of fluid vs a flush. But the benefits of several drains and refills is that: 1. You can do it yourself, 2. will not be shock to the transmission, sometimes when you change all the fluid at once bad things happen, that´s why many mechanics don´t want to change transmission fluid. 3. You don´t have to disconnect any hoses, only the drain plug and fill cap.

I´m including the Partial Drain Helper Download Link + the Workshop Manual procedure to check the level afterwards. The manual states to refill with 4.5 qts and check, that actually was spot on for a full mark on my dipstick. Let me know if you need any more help.

Partial Drain Helper

Excellent! A sudden change in viscosity could change your shift calibration. The new fluid will dissolve the varnish, and the spaced changes allow larger debris to drop and get drained out. The black in the fluid is sharp frictional material from the clutches. So, I do a single drain/fill about once a year to keep the abrasives level in the fluid to a minimum, depending on the miles.

 

[Mbrooks420]

150000 miles interval is not enough. I'm not sure why Ford has that in their manual. I hope you have a toe package in your limited. What is appropriate varies depending mostly on temperature during operation and a toe package includes a transmission fluid cooler which keeps it cooler. Your climate and driving habits also affect fluid temperature. You can check with some others on this but here is a rule of thumb. if you have a toe package that includes a cooler and you drive in what the manual calls normal driving and you don't often toe anything then you can do a drain and fill every 50-60k miles and probably be ok. If you toe regularly or don't have a cooler and don't toe, I would cut that interval in half. I've never heard of a transmission that doesn't have a replaceable filter and given the history of your limited, i'd replace it. You'll need to drop the pan and its a little messy. At this point I'd recommend as you mentioned, doing back to back drain and fills until your fluid looks pretty good, maybe 3 or 4. Alternatively you can do a complete fluid replacement but that gets more involved and folks usually go the drain and fill route. Once you've replaced the filter and completed multiple drain and fills, you can resume the rule of thumb I mentioned. Your transmission will thank you!
Opps: I'm afraid I posted without seeing that there were other replies on top of mine. I may have missed some details about the specifics of your transmission.

 

[RonParise]

I can give you info from my experience. Bought my 13 XLT with 50k, checked the manual and it says 150k for fluid replacement. The fluid was already dark brown, no burnt smell. No way I was going to wait 150k. Did a drain and refill and used 4.5 qts, I measured the amount drained first. The I found an interesting spreadsheet, it´s called Partial Drain Helper. You will put the total transmission fluid capacity (in my case is 10.8 qts) and the quantity refilled. That will tell you the % of old and new fluid and projection of how many quarts you will need to reach a desired %. In my case I was shooting for 93% new fluid but ended getting to 96% for a whooping 6 drains and refills. That was after months. At first I did 1 drain and refill each week and after 4 you get about 88%, which is pretty good. Then I did the 5th at the next oil change and the 6th just for the kicks. Many people criticized this method because it wastes a lot of fluid vs a flush. But the benefits of several drains and refills is that: 1. You can do it yourself, 2. will not be shock to the transmission, sometimes when you change all the fluid at once bad things happen, that´s why many mechanics don´t want to change transmission fluid. 3. You don´t have to disconnect any hoses, only the drain plug and fill cap.

I´m including the Partial Drain Helper Download Link + the Workshop Manual procedure to check the level afterwards. The manual states to refill with 4.5 qts and check, that actually was spot on for a full mark on my dipstick. Let me know if you need any more help.

Partial Drain Helper

Thanks for this

 

[RonParise]

Duplicate post

 

[Sixonemale]

The dealerships offer a transmission flush and fill, has anyone tried this for maintenance? I realize doing this to an older transmission can magnify problems, such as with worn bands, if these types of potential problems exist.

 

[ncsuengineer256]

Getting back to transmission talk, does anyone else have the shuddering issue?

 

[RonParise]

My Explorer is a 2011 Limited 3.5 L V6 2 wheel drive. I think the only transmission available was the 6 speed, but I dont know. I have a drain plug on the bottom . and a fluid level plug on the side and a dipstick/fill on the top, under the air filter box. I have the tow package on this car so Im pretty sure there is a transmission cooler with hose lines in and out of the transmission , I would, if I determine it would be advantageous to do so, install an in-line filter in one of these hoses

When I had a drain and fill done at 150000 miles the oil was black.
at 280000 miles, another drain and fill, and the oil was black. I sent a sample of this oil to Blackstone Labs. Analysis showed high wear metals
at 300000 another drain and fill, and a sample sent off to the lab. The concentration of the wear metals was less

The theory of the case is that in the first several thousand miles (break in) a fair amount of metal, ended up in the oil but once broken in very little wear is taking place. Now each time I do a drain and fill the concentration of metals ought to go down (unless of course I have a problem I dont know about)

Since I posted my questions I found a you-tube video that made the case that a transmission filter never needs to be changed. His argument is that there shouldnt be anything in a transmission for the filter to catch. So if the filter becomes clogged You have bigger problems than the clogged filter

This is to follow up on my earlier post (copied above)

To recap. I thought I had paid for a transmission flush at 150000 miles and went back for another at 270000 miles (according to the owners manual) and thats when I learned that all they were doing is a drain and fill . This time I sent a sample off to Blackstone lab
Since then I started doing the drain and fill myself: one at 300000 miles, 310000 and 320000. And I sent samples to the lab each time

Ive attached a copy of the most recent lab report which also includes the past results and a running average They also average all my results and compare the results to "universal averages" Ive also talked to a transmission shop I trust (Glen Burnie Automatic Transmissions) I was prepared to take the car from Florida to Maryland to replace the filter and/or add an external filter.. Their advice was to keep doing what I have been doing. That it would cheaper in the long run to just let this one go doing regular drain and fills, until it finally craps out.

The good news is that it looks like Im going to get away with my past neglect of transmission maintenance. the concentration of wear metals is going down with each drain and fill.

 

[peterk9]

.....................................

The good news is that it looks like Im going to get away with my past neglect of transmission maintenance. the concentration of wear metals is going down with each drain and fill.

Perhaps there is just less metal to wear down.

Peter

 

[CDW6212R]

The 6R trans is a strong model, with no bands it's a step above all past transmissions. If it still shifts well, it might keep going for a lot more years with good fluid and filtering. The 2011 model was the last to have the controller inside the trans, which is bad due to the heat. So that internal module is the weakest link of those six speeds. In 2012+ Ford revised it and has the PCM control all of it.

 

[texsn95]

The dealerships offer a transmission flush and fill, has anyone tried this for maintenance? I realize doing this to an older transmission can magnify problems, such as with worn bands, if these types of potential problems exist.

I just did 2 drain and fills yesterday on the '17 Sport I just bought. Got a 12pack of the Ford Mercon LV from Amazon for about $100 and a 4qt measuring jug. It's a pretty sturdy container.

The amazon link isn't working right so just search for "Winco Measuring Cup, Polycarbonate, 4-Quart, Clear"

First drain got about 5.5qts out which seemed to be a bit much based on what I've read and from watching this guy. "Ford Explorer Transmission Fluid Change How To" on Youtube



So I put back about 5, and ran the vehicle pretty hard for 15 minutes and got 5.25 qts out of the next one. Put back the same amount and will check the level today...or try to since it's a pain to snake out the tranny dipstick if you leave the airbox installed. Shifts just fine, so it may not have needed it but it gives me a peace of mind. I'll do another one probably next year.