Completed Project Turboexplorer's Full Width SAS Build Thread

[BKennedy]

Thought you said it flexed better and had more compression travel with it off.

I thought we were talking about ride / load height. It does flex better with it off.

 

[gmanpaint]

Aren't you towing a trailer around? I'm not sure I would leave the overload off and tow. I guess it depends on the tongue weight. That's why I left mine on. :scratch:

I eventually removed the leaf clamps I had on so they will flex more, but still need a guide to stop them from splaying on the trails.

 

[turboexplorer]

Yes I still tow with it. 3,500-4,000lbs. 500lbs tongue weight or so I would guess when fully loaded. I'll ask them about a guide and also flipping the spring pack retaining bolt as it is now SOA, that way the nice round guide is on the perch side. I can still use my old main leaf to cycle suspension to try and maximize clearance and flex.

 

[turboexplorer]

Been a busy last couple of weeks. We got sector9's front diff in and axles loaded etc then we took it out for a quick flex at a road construction site just down from my house. Crawled right over it was fun.

The truck did fine driving then sector9's work tried to align it and made it very poor and it pulled wicked hard to the right so I took it to my work yesterday and we aligned it with a very new machine and it can actually go on the freeway and feel safe now. It still pulls to the right but we had the eccentric maxed out for caster on the right side so the cross caster favors a right pull. So a new eccentric is needed on the right side to bring the caster from 3.6* to near 6* to get it to go back left.

Then last weekend I also go the rear rock lights fully done which is nice to have done and the light is awesome. They come on with the sides with a main switch or they turn on when the rear glass is popped or the rear hatch is opened. Turned out awesome. Also while I was in there running the stuff for the rear rock lights I ran a trailer power wire so I can charge the trailer battery while towing

Then I also got the rear spring shackle bushings replaced in the frame, was really easy. I took a handful of pictures so I could do a little HOW TO write up on them if there isn't one already I haven't looked. But was easy. Found out the rubber wasn't in terrible shape could see where the weight had sat on it for years but the center tube where the bolt goes through was just slid over to the side. But hey since I was in there I slapped some fresh motorcraft bushings in.

Also I got my new rear springs from ATS. So they will be going on soon but will be after Thanksgiving, going to wait until after that big trip to get them set up. But I did notice a few interesting things when I did the rear bushings. It has always looked like it didn't droop as far as it did in stock form, well got to looking and the shocks still had 1 1/2" shock left when the axle wouldn't droop anymore, well come to find out it is my sway bar limiting the down travel. It rotates up and hits the top of the pumpkin and stops the droop, granted it will be slightly different when flexed but still it hits and limits travel so that will be redone after Thanksgiving as well. And even then may move the rear shock mounts up an inch to increase droop a bit more as the leafs even without the sway bar and shocks fully extended where not even starting to separate. So looks like the rear needs some work. O and the other thing I noticed was that when the shackles where taken off they wanted to rest towards the inside of the frame like they where shown in the previous posts. So I am really curious if the axle spring perches are very slightly to close together so its pulling the shackles or rear of the leafs in just slightly. But will wait to see when the new leafs are put in to make sure its not these leafs that are slightly tweaked. And they may have been in a hair but it didn't take much pressure at all to get them out onto the new bushings so cant be super far off if any. Also when I did have it drooped to where the leafs started to separate the left leaf separated in front of the axle and the right side did behind the axle? Wonder if the perches are slightly twisted as well? The left axle tube did think about twisting if you remember awhile back and I welded the tube to the housing when I noticed. All it did was pop the paint and have a hairline crack didn't look like it actually turned so who knows. I wont know until I get the old leafs off for all I know they are all twisted funny. So things to come after the Thanksgiving wheeling trip. Me and Sector 9 are taking both rigs down to Southern Utah to mob some dunes and crawl some slickrock.

 

[BKennedy]

I have no more sway bars on the Explorer. The rear did not seem to do much anyway. You thought about removing the sway bar and using stiffer rear shocks? When you set up the new leafs, try it with the sway bar removed. The new, heavy duty leafs might allow you to run without.

 

[turboexplorer]

Agreed, we didn't reinstall the rear one on my brothers and it seams to drive decent. Would be easy to a make a quick run to a trail and flex it with and without the bar and take some measurements and see what changes. Also could measure shocks and see if the lower mounts need to be moved up an inch.

 

[gmanpaint]

Huge difference in rear flex without the swaybar, and barely notice it's gone on the road for me. I do however need to add a limit strap to the center of the axle, as the shocks are the limiting factor without the bar. Billybob on PBB sells awesome quad wrapped straps dirt cheap. I got them from him for the front, just need to push the buttons someday for the rear.

Something to think about.

 

[turboexplorer]

Why in the center of the axle? I do plan on running limiting straps. It will be strapped right when the leafs start to separate. That's the point that they wont have any weight for the tire anyways so no need to stretch them out. That will also help any issue it will cause for the leafs. From the few guys I have talked with over drooping or stretching the leaf can be very hard on them.

But I do plan to maximize what I can from it and I have plenty of room to compress a few more inches and without the bar I may go up that far. I think though since I am full width and a little bit of added leverage I will need to set up some bump stops. However I am curious how far negative they can go before they have issues. My brothers in the pictures above go a bit negative when flexed and from pictures looks like BKennedy and others also go a bit negative when compressed as well. Could measure a factory truck and see how far the bumps are so I know how much the factory would let them move before Ford bumped them. Also without the rear bar maybe it will help the rig feel a bit more balanced.

 

[BKennedy]

Mine go a bit negative, but only a bit. I have bumps like these only in red (you can find them cheaper, just an example).
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Energy-Susp...-Black-w-Large-Metal-Plate-Poly-/161401810699
They are mounted in the stock location. I like them because they compress a bunch and slow the compression rate. Kind of like a poor man's air bump.

I am thinking of removing one leaf from my pack of five to adjust the ride height down a little. It just seems to sit too high in the rear, and lower is better.

Some guys mount limit straps in the center of a leaf sprung axle to only limit the rebound and not droop due to flex. I don't worry about over stressing the leaf springs with separation. If they wear out prematurely, I just get another set. I would rather have the flex. My Explorer doesn't get used as a daily driver and spends most of its time in the dirt, or being driven to the dirt, so the springs seem to last a long time. My original set lasted about 12 years, the second set (junk yard) about five, and the current frankenleaf set up seems to be working fine.

 

[turboexplorer]

Had a few things to do the last few weeks but yesterday I did manage to get the front rock lights done. So all rock lights are done and they turned out awesome. Rear side are lights are mounted to the bumper braces and the center rear is mounted to the rear of the hitch. The fronts are mounted to the actual bumper, just sanded the chrome and burned the mounts to them. Turned out great.

Will need to get some better pictures with it on a trail etc but for now this is what I got. Been really cold here haven't taken it out for pictures yet, this last weekend got down to 11* But that means snow wheeling isn't to far behind!

Think that's enough light for some rock lights?

9 days and counting until Southern Utah wheeling trip! A much needed trip and some much needed miles to be put on the Explorer.

 

[turboexplorer]

This weekend was awesome and I have a lot of pictures to show you. What a beautiful place to go wheeling and to enjoy the outdoors and to be with my family. Epic wheeling as usual. Lots more pictures to come and a few changes to the rig will be made as I concentrated more on what the rig was doing while wheeling. So here are some quick pictures to pass the time until I get the others up.

Drive to and from St. George went great for both rigs.

Sand hollow sand dunes and OHV area.

Was great to have my brothers rig there, this was its first big shake down run for it both on the freeway and on the rocks. It did very well, we need to move his rear shocks but that's a story for another time.

 

[turboexplorer]

So the last day we where wheeling I went to back up in the sand and heard a bad pop, then again when put into drive. Defiantly from the front. I only faintly heard it twice more that day and always seamed to be when there wasn't much load on it.

Last year or the year before I broke the right front stub shaft/u joint when the shaft C sections opened up and it spit out the small half moon clips that hold the caps on from the factory. I then made it so I could run the full circle snap rings. But now looking over the rig I am curious is if slightly hurt the inner axle's C or if this is completely new.

So looking over the rig I found this for the right front inner axle shaft.

This is one side of the inner axle u joint C. See how the u joint cap looks like it has been there for awhile and hasn't moved. The dirt around it is unbroken and it looks nice and tight?

This is the other side of the right front inner axle u joint C. See how the dirt is broken and it looks like the u joint cap has moved and or spun, its shiny on the small part of the side of the cap you can see. It also doesn't look nice and tight like the other side. The full snap ring on the inside that holds the cap inside the axle is still properly in place so the cap couldn't actually exit the axle. The little bit rubbed off the top of the cap was my finger wiping it.

Hummmmm..... What to do. Options?
Cheapest option - Small weld on the cap and axle so it can't move anymore.
Still cheap option - New OEM right front axle shaft
Good option - Chrome Moly axle shafts
Best Option - RCV front shafts that I will never break ever

What to do .......................

Still not sure how this would make a bad pop, I didn't find anything else when looking over the rig? I did several things when looking at the rig after the pop at the dunes like hard sand climbs etc and never made a single noise. Both in forward and reverse so really don't think it was from the diff or the T-Case. And it really did feel very evident in the front axle not in the case. Guess I can pull the hub and look at the hub but it never did it on any hard loads so not sure it would be that and even then still obviously have a small axle issue.

Thoughts?

 

[BKennedy]

Well, now you can't get the RCV shafts because you just said you "will never ever break", so that's out.....
If you are worried about it, tack it in place and see if the noise goes away. Then plan on new chrome moly or RCV later. Or ask you wife for new axles for Christmas. Problem solved.

 

[gmanpaint]

Have you removed a hub and inspect inside ?

 

[turboexplorer]

Not yet, I need to. It felt more like something slipped nut just the small play in that axle shaft. But it's hard to say. But never did it under a heavy load. Think I'll weld the cap on and go over the hub and check. Then run a few trails and see if I ever hear it again. And save up for some higher end shafts. For Christmas I'm getting other things for the truck, (air bumps)

 

[turboexplorer]

My brother was over this evening and since I had the tires off and the rig on jack stands I had him throw it in gear in both directions in 4WD so I could watch that u joint and it moves a lot. Way more than it should and is obviously not right. So will weld the cap and go run a trail and see what happens, I am going to pull both hubs and go over them really well tomorrow.

Also I hope my brother is able to come by on Tuesday and we can cycle the front end really well and clearance the right frame rail where the upper link mount bumps it when the axle comes up with both tires at a stuff. If flexed it doesn't hit but straight up it barely does, enough to make a thud. I don't mob through whoops hard so it doesn't hit often. Then I can see what my full absolute stuff is and measure for specific length of the bumps that I need so I can get them on order. Will be hard not to order rear bumps at the same time! I may accidentally hit qty of 4 not 2.

 

[turboexplorer]

I pulled the hubs apart and didn't find any sign that one had let go or ever slipped. Both engage and disengage freely. The left hub as you can see on the inner locking ring looks like it has been partly engaged at some point and has worn the edges of the teeth, the inner portion of the hub where it splines to the axle looks the same. But when fully engaged it has full tooth engagement so this wouldn't affect anything that I can see. And it still engages easily. So no issues with the hubs.

Good inner locking ring.

Worn one.

No issues on any splined surface.

On a different note I took all 4 tires to Discount Tire where they where bought and had them re balance all 4. The closest tire was 3/4oz off. And others where 1 1/4oz-3oz off. I have had 1 tire that has liked to bounce since everything was new and so I had that tire spun on the rim 180* in hopes that if rim and or tire have high spots that they aren't both in the same spot. So we will see if that helps. Also the tire I cut really bad the first wheeling trip with the rig on my front bumper post 447, I had dismounted and flipped so now the cut lugs of the tire are now on the inside of the tire in hopes that I don't rip any more pieces of the lugs off due to them being cut. I tore some pieces off over Thanksgiving wheeling.

Hope it helps the rig be a bit smoother, does really nice minus that 1 tire that bounces.

 

[turboexplorer]

So I pulled the coilovers last night and pushed the axle up to full bump and took some measurements. I have dead on 4" of straight bump travel. The first thing to hit is the right side upper link mount which I knew bumped at times already.

I have the room if I clearance the frame and motor mount on the right side for a full additional inch of up travel which will be nice but will take a fair bit of work. I will have to notch the frame longer front to back than I thought I would to fully clear the link. Also would require a bit of motor mount removal but not up to the mounting bolt so it will still be fine since I would brace it as well anyways.

The left side will only require notching a small part of the motor mount to clear the link. This side is easy since at full bump the trac bar slightly shifts the axle to the right of the rig which is why the right side will require more work.

The truss has plenty of room to the oil pan for 1 inch of additional travel would just clearance the front of the truss to allow for additional safety room. Just in case. Also the trac bar to the steering box has an inch and the tie rod to the pitman arm has an inch. So an inch will be the max additional bump travel I can get.

I will be using the FOX 2.0" bump stops with 3" of travel. I will be adding an additional shaft spacer inside the bump to limit the travel to 2-2.5". The 2.5" bump uses a different body than the 3 & 4" So in using the longer bodied bumps I will have options if I ever needed to increase the length or use else ware etc.

Right upper link, looking from the front of the rig towards the rear.

Right upper link, looking from the rear towards the front.

Right upper link, looking from the bottom up.

Left upper link, looking from the rear towards the front.

 

[turboexplorer]

Oil pan clearance, you can see the front part of the truss that I can grind down flush with the top of the truss to make sure it never touches the oil pan. Brake line has plenty of room it goes up where the factory diff sat so the oil pan has tons of room there.

Tie rod to the pitman arm. It will require shifting the steering stabilizer to the right so at full bump and full left turn the mount for the stabilizer will not be under the pitman arm.

Trac bar to the steering box, plenty of room.

Trac bar to the diff cover, I have enough room to go up an inch. It will slightly bump but the cover can be notch slightly it has room to the ring gear.

Overview at full bump.

 

[turboexplorer]

So today I thought I would see if I can fit my winch behind the factory front bumper without having to cut a bunch of things up. As it turns out I can. I have had the XRC-8 Comp Series winch sitting in my house in the box never opened for over 3 years now. Think its about time it gets used as I want to get it buried in some wicked deep snow this year.

I can fit it really easy actually and should be able to accomplish the whole project in a Saturday with no issues. The factory bumper will hold the fairlead and will be supported from behind. It will look really slick as it will be hidden fully behind the bumper, be very low in the chassis, and the fairlead will look sweet on the front bumper. Have some creative mounting options for it.

Question is do I want to run 1/4" plate for the winch mount or 3/8" plate? Thoughts, comments, questions, concerns? It will be above the front cross member I made when the SAS was done. And will have a few braces down to that cross member as well as some side bracing off the vertical sides of the frame rails. That will triangulate it well and be nice and strong. The factory style winch mounts you buy from warn, smittybilt etc all use either 3/16" or 1/4" and they seam to have no issues. And again this will be braced in a few areas that will eliminate all flexing of the mount. Also in buying 1/4" for the project it can be used in other areas for other projects where having 3/8" laying around is expensive and generally not used.

It will sit behind the frame rail bumper mount horns and above the cross member and the mounting surface for the winch will be roughly even with the bottom of the frame rails. So supporting it with some 1/8" plate cut into braces from either side welded to the vertical portion of the frame rails will support it very nicely.