Water pump failure leads to dead engine

[peterk9]

Not sure what a 'higher mileage' figure would be but an extended ESP would cover the cost of a repair but not the inconvenience though. It seems that the longest ESP is 8 years, 150k miles.

Peter

 

[Sixonemale]

Not sure what a 'higher mileage' figure would be but an extended ESP would cover the cost of a repair but not the inconvenience though. It seems that the longest ESP is 8 years, 150k miles.

Peter

Since the maintenance manual does not require a coolant change until 100,000 miles and says to inspect cooling system and hoses at 10k, 20k, 30k, 40k, 60k, 80k, 90k, 100k, 120k and 140k miles, I would think that if the water pump fails before 150,000 miles and seizes the engine, the repair should be on Ford's tab regardless of warranty or no warranty, ESP, etc. That's the price they should pay for putting a $40 part inside the engine block, let alone the repair could take days due to the part/engine not being in stock and excessive time for labor.

 

[dent]

i'm not sure about replacing the water pump being proactive.

granted you're getting a new water pump and technically it should last you xxkm but in the past, i've replaced water pumps as i was in there doing the timing belt only to have the new water pump die on me in 5 months.

all and any part will fail even if it's new. life span all varies and no one can say it'll fail at xxkm.

totally agree that it's a piss poor design but is it a design flaw? maybe but more of not foward thinking or long term thinking on the engineers part.

only thing one can do is do a pressure test every so often as someone as already posted to be absolutely sure it's not failing

 

[Sixonemale]

i'm not sure about replacing the water pump being proactive.

Understand, but how many long distance family trips are you willing to make after 100,000 miles, knowing that if the water pump fails, at minimum it’s $1,500 repair and possibly $7,000 repair that could take many days to fix.

granted you're getting a new water pump and technically it should last you xxkm but in the past, i've replaced water pumps as i was in there doing the timing belt only to have the new water pump die on me in 5 months.

Fully understand that some parts last longer than others, hence the reason that certain parts that are known to last that long are easily accessible and don’t cost much to replace vs a timing chain that is known virtually last the life of the engine in some cases.

all and any part will fail even if it's new. life span all varies and no one can say it'll fail at xxkm.

Statistically speaking, some parts fail much more frequently than others, hence the reason auto companies like Honda and Toyota have timing belt kits that include replacing the water pump at about 90,000 mile intervals that give the owner a great piece of mind and also contribute to their engine running hundreds of thousands of miles with a fair amount of confidence.

totally agree that it's a piss poor design but is it a design flaw? maybe but more of not foward thinking or long term thinking on the engineers part.

Let me make it clear, I don’t like the location of 3.5L Duratec engine water pump, but can stomach a $1,500 cost to replace the water pump if I knew I could detect it failing without the engine seizing. Those of us who look under the hood and inspect the overflow coolant tank level, may catch a failing water pump in time, but also may not. If you put some thought into this, if you are gradually losing coolant and fill the overflow tank up every month or so, you could feeding more and more antifreeze into the engine oil if you cannot see any coolant leaking from the block and then over time it will cause catastrophic failure to the engine.

only thing one can do is do a pressure test every so often as someone as already posted to be absolutely sure it's not failing

I don’t disagree, but how many non-mechanically inclined car owners that include some females/ males, young and elderly that have never worked on engine do you really expect to conduct a valid pressure, probably not many.

 

[dent]

Understand, but how many long distance family trips are you willing to make after 100,000 miles, knowing that if the water pump fails, at minimum it’s $1,500 repair and possibly $7,000 repair that could take many days to fix.

just saying that proactivly replacing the pump doesn't mean anything. you can replace it and drive 20miles and your brand spanking new water pump can fail.

not disagreeing with you at all. in fact, i'm completely on the same page.

it's a piss poor design and catastrophic engine failures like this should not happen without any warning. especially in this day in age when there's sensors for everything and the car is pretty much one big computer senor. geez. they have a damn sensor to wipe my windshield when there's water on it

 

[MartinF]

The bad news is that many of the new vehicles have the pumps built right into the engine and they are all just as much of a pain to get at as on the Explorer. So, I don't think this is just an Explorer problem. Go watch a video online of replacing a Highlander pump too. Just as many steps as the explorer.

 

[Sixonemale]

The bad news is that many of the new vehicles have the pumps built right into the engine and they are all just as much of a pain to get at as on the Explorer. So, I don't think this is just an Explorer problem. Go watch a video online of replacing a Highlander pump too. Just as many steps as the explorer.

Understand, but not the point I'm trying to emphasize. When Toyota Highlander water pump fails can coolant leak into to the engine oil and cause catastrophic engine damage like the 3.5L Duratech engine? Also, does the highlander have sensors that let the owner know when water pump is or has failed? If coolant can only leak externally, then a temperature gauge would be a sufficient sensor, in addition to noise associated with some water pump failures.

 

[MartinF]

Understand, but not the point I'm trying to emphasize. When Toyota Highlander water pump fails can coolant leak into to the engine oil and cause catastrophic engine damage like the 3.5L Duratech engine? Also, does the highlander have sensors that let the owner know when water pump is or has failed? If coolant can only leak externally, then a temperature gauge would be a sufficient sensor, in addition to noise associated with some water pump failures.

Well, I am no mechanic to say what can happen to the Toyota but some people in this thread have complained about the price of the pump to get it changed and I am pointing out that this is a fairly common configuration these days.

Given how many of these engines have been produced, I don't think the need for such alarmism is viable. Any engine could die from some catastrophic failure for many reasons. Do a search for the Duratec 35 cyclone engine to see that this engine has been produced in many different variants since 2007. There are very likely hundreds of thousands of these engines on the road in Fords, Mazda's, Lincoln's and so on. Of all these, there are a handful of these stories of catastrophic failure. Go look up any car and you will find a handful of catastrophic failures. Ford is a victim of their own success because the more of these vehicles you produce, statistically you will get more failures. Even if 500 people came on this board and complained of this issue, it would still be a very small subset of the total number of these engines produced. I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill here. Plus, as for longevity, these engines have been produced in this format now for 10 years and you are still not seeing an abundance of complaints. Some of these cars must have high mileage by now If it is so serious of an issue, why aren't there thousands of such complaints popping up? I still only see a few on here and a few in regards to the Ford Flex. But, that is nothing in comparison to how many of these vehicles are on the road (even regular water pumps fail and produce catastrophic engine failure sometimes).

In all, the engine in these vehicles is very reliable, which is why Ford puts these engines in many of it's flagship products, including the F150, the Lincoln MKZ, Lincoln MKX, the Taurus and of course, the Explorer. If you also add in all the cars that have the 3.7 variant which just has a slightly different bore, then you reach even more cars.

I could be a glutton for punishment, but I just don't see these cars dead on the side of the road every day. Nor have there been that many reports of these issues. Every car/manufacturer has issues with certain engines/models. I just don't see Ford having a big issue with this problem. If it happens to me, or you, that would definitely suck. Statistically, I think the chances of it happening are extremely low. You have a much higher chance of totalling your car in an accident then having this problem I would guess.

Just my opinion based on some minor research online! I just ordered my Explorer and I looked into this as a potential problem. I just don't see the need to be that stressed over anything. Every car could die for this or that reason and every brand of make and model car has reports online of premature failure. The fact is, nothing is perfect.

 

[cwescapexlt4x4]

My previous EX (2013) had 79K miles on it and no WP issues/changed out and hoping this will be the case with my 16

 

[Sixonemale]

My previous EX (2013) had 79K miles on it and no WP issues/changed out and hoping this will be the case with my 16

Your definitely dodging a potential major problem, hopefully the next owner will be fully aware of this potential design flaw before purchasing your used Explorer.

 

[Sixonemale]

Well, I am no mechanic to say what can happen to the Toyota but some people in this thread have complained about the price of the pump to get it changed and I am pointing out that this is a fairly common configuration these days.

Are you saying that it's common configuration that if a water pump fails on a Toyota, or other brand of vehicle besides Ford, that coolant can potentially leak into the engine oil and cause the engine to seize?

 

[MartinF]

Are you saying that it's common configuration that if a water pump fails on a Toyota, or other brand of vehicle besides Ford, that coolant can potentially leak into the engine oil and cause the engine to seize?

I think if you read my post, you will see that I never made such a claim.

My post was more to the point that, this isn't a common problem considering the number of engines of this type that have been in so many different Ford models.

If you really believe that this is such a HUGE problem, you should complain to Ford. It's obvious you aren't happy and no one will change your mind. If you look at the facts though, I think you will see that this is not such a big problem. Not ALL water pump failures will result in this potential problem. Also, not all water pumps will fail. So, you are worrying about a very small percentage of the potential problems. As I said, I think your chances of completely wrecking the car in an accident are likely higher than this issue.

 

[blwnsmoke]

I think if you read my post, you will see that I never made such a claim.

My post was more to the point that, this isn't a common problem considering the number of engines of this type that have been in so many different Ford models.

If you really believe that this is such a HUGE problem, you should complain to Ford. It's obvious you aren't happy and no one will change your mind. If you look at the facts though, I think you will see that this is not such a big problem. Not ALL water pump failures will result in this potential problem. Also, not all water pumps will fail. So, you are worrying about a very small percentage of the potential problems. As I said, I think your chances of completely wrecking the car in an accident are likely higher than this issue.

I agree with your points and have said pretty much the same thing. I believe they are up to 1.2 million explorers now, plus the Taurus, flex and edge on top of that. You mentioned hundreds of thousands but it is several million of these motors.

Sucks if it happens, poor design.. I'd agree to an extent but as stated, the 3.5 would not fit with an external pump.

It is a very rare occurrence but it sucks when it does happen.

A brand new engine is $3,500 plus not kuch labor to replace a motor whole.. I'd go that route personally then $1,800 for just a water pump.

 

[Sixonemale]

I think if you read my post, you will see that I never made such a claim.

My post was more to the point that, this isn't a common problem considering the number of engines of this type that have been in so many different Ford models.

If you really believe that this is such a HUGE problem, you should complain to Ford. It's obvious you aren't happy and no one will change your mind. If you look at the facts though, I think you will see that this is not such a big problem. Not ALL water pump failures will result in this potential problem. Also, not all water pumps will fail. So, you are worrying about a very small percentage of the potential problems. As I said, I think your chances of completely wrecking the car in an accident are likely higher than this issue.

We will agree to disagree, I believe it’s much more common than some owners think it is. No disrespect, but I also did not pay much attention to numerous vehicle comment, because it appears that you did not read the thread in its entirety, because I have asked a Ford representative for statistics regarding failed water pumps and this was the response I was given:

“I asked around, and no one can give me the stats you guys are asking for

. But if anyone needs a hand, I can see if any resources are available to help. Simply send me a private message with your VIN, odometer reading, full name, phone number, and servicing dealer.

Thank you!

Mathieu”

I’ve witnessed a failed water pump within my extended family on a MKX with about 50,000 miles, it happens with no warning or detection. I agree not all water pump failures will seize the engine, it just depends how lucky or unlucky an owner is as to which seal fails.

There have also been websites from time to time that have referenced class action lawsuits regarding this design flaw, plus how many owners of these other vehicles are mechanically inclined enough to really research this issue.

This generation of Explorer has been on the road since 2011, therefore, there are not that many on the road with a lot of miles on them. My thought is that not all, but many Explorer or truck owners tend to be a bit more mechanically inclined than most owners of other vehicles, plus some of those who have owned older generation Explorers are used driving them many miles without exorbitant maintenance costs or a seized engine. I’ve owned several Fords and have driven some well over 100,000 miles and have never had a seized engine. My guess is that if there is a problem, validated through statistics, Explorer owners will bring it to the surface. At a minimum Ford should step up to the plate and put out a TSB or recall that would retrofit some sort of sensor in the plastic coolant tank so that the owner would know they are losing too much coolant too quickly and/or a TSB with some sort of sensor that could detect glycol in the engine oil so that a failed water pump could be detected before catastrophic engine damage.

 

[bdginmo]

I like the idea of a pressure test every X number of miles, but I do wonder what kind of success rate and payoff it would have. It's my understanding that if the back seal is failing the coolant will leak out of the weep hole and be visible. But, if the front seal is failing it leaks into the oil and visual evidence would be difficult to come by. So, ironically, it seems as though the scenario with the least chance of success leads to the most costly outcome. So the question...would pressure testing the coolant system really be effective?

 

[tino2]

On the mazda forums they are experiencing the same thing with their cx-9's. They were told by their mechanics that they only have 2 options either a brand new engine or a low mileage used engine. They were told this because they were also informed that no one wants to remanufacture this particular engine. Also there are a couple of people on that same forum that have replaced the water pump and provided a write up. The website is mazdas247.com

 

[dewy-pgh]

I have a 2011 Explorer, 82,500 miles. Original owner. 6 cylinder. Heard noise that sounded like a belt slipped. Heard about 5 times. No warnings on dash. Recorded on phone, best spot under car not on top. Was going to take to dealer in two days. While driving one day, the car lost power, thought bad fuel, seemed like not firing on all 6 cylinders. Also a low idle. Going down a slight grade the engine stalled. Put in neutral and restarted, saw different lights on dash, when I started all went out. It stalled again and stoped. Again lights on dashboard, did see red low or loss of oil pressures in lower left. Pushed to the side of the road and had a flat bed take to dealer. They found failed water pump. They had to pull cylinder covers to check heads. They determined coolent did get in with the oil and seize the engine. Ford is putting a new engine in. I had purchased the 7 year 100,000 mile ESP. I got the impression that I will only have the $50 deductible.
I have a friend and he has 130,000 miles on his engine, no water pump issues. He did have do a catalytic converter.

 

[gdruss]

2014 here with 107,000 miles. The only issue I have had is the left rear wheel bearing went out at 70,000 miles and it was covered under the ESP warranty I had.

 

[Sixonemale]

I have a 2011 Explorer, 82,500 miles. Original owner. 6 cylinder. Heard noise that sounded like a belt slipped. Heard about 5 times. No warnings on dash. Recorded on phone, best spot under car not on top. Was going to take to dealer in two days. While driving one day, the car lost power, thought bad fuel, seemed like not firing on all 6 cylinders. Also a low idle. Going down a slight grade the engine stalled. Put in neutral and restarted, saw different lights on dash, when I started all went out. It stalled again and stoped. Again lights on dashboard, did see red low or loss of oil pressures in lower left. Pushed to the side of the road and had a flat bed take to dealer. They found failed water pump. They had to pull cylinder covers to check heads. They determined coolent did get in with the oil and seize the engine. Ford is putting a new engine in. I had purchased the 7 year 100,000 mile ESP. I got the impression that I will only have the $50 deductible.
I have a friend and he has 130,000 miles on his engine, no water pump issues. He did have do a catalytic converter.

Very sad to hear about this poor design of putting the water pump, a $40 part, inside the engine block and with no clear warning having it leak coolant into the oil causing the engine to seize. Fortunately you have the ESP, but for others that don't, this is a very costly repair. Also, with 82,500 miles, the only requirement from the maintenance manual was to visually inspect the cooling system at various intervals. According the manual the coolant is supposed to be changed at 100,000 miles.

2014 here with 107,000 miles. The only issue I have had is the left rear wheel bearing went out at 70,000 miles and it was covered under the ESP warranty I had.

It appears that your explorer has a fair amount of freeway miles based on it being 2014 with 107,000 miles. Freeway miles are much easier on an engine than stop and go traffic, etc.

 

[mattbult]

Hey all,

I have a 2011 explorer limited that I bought brand new. First new Ford and I was thrilled. The new design was beautiful, including that triple-coat white, the ride was good, power, myfordtouch... Loved it. It has been a great car for six years. This was a big investment for us so we opted for the extended 6yr/100k warranty through our dealer ($1,650) and we were set. Until a few weeks ago. With $95k on the car and five weeks past the warranty time period the check engine light came on with my wife out of town. Brought it to a local dealer and was told it was a crank/cam sensor problem resultant from a stretched timing chain. Authorized the work and once they got the engine out (yes, engine needed to be removed for this) they found it was full of metal because the water pump disintegrated. Temp gauge never went up, car didn't overheat. Now we need a new engine for $7500 (actually $7,342.75). Again, just a few weeks out of warranty and under on miles. With the car out of town, we don't have a lot of options, so we authorized the replacement. It will take three weeks to get an engine.

I tried everything to get Ford to consider honoring the extended warranty. Before you say boo-hoo too bad your warranty is expired - you lose, when faced with a $7500 bill you would be an idiot not to do everything you can to find some relief, to appeal to Ford's appreciation of loyalty and support of their vehicles. We did everything right, had it serviced at the dealer, in fact, it was at the dealer for servicing just a couple months before this happened and received a clean bill of health.

Anyway, the two reasons I am posting are 1) if you have a 2011 explorer with 90k plus miles I would urge you to consider either selling/trading it or purchasing an extended-extended warranty. 2) If anyone has had this particular catastrophic failure, please respond and let me know how it was resolved or if Ford was of any assistance in covering the cost.

thanks,

-matt