Water pump failure leads to dead engine

[EB4X]

Due to the horrible increases in car prices I went ahead and did the preemptive replacement at 200k. Was about $2200 with new timing chain kit and oil pump.

You have the 3.5 or 2.7 ? Has this engine needed a significant repair done prior ?

 

[ncsuengineer256]

Due to the horrible increases in car prices I went ahead and did the preemptive replacement at 200k. Was about $2200 with new timing chain kit and oil pump.

The engine needed a new oil pump too?

 

[ocracokeBound]

Wow! I'm impressed that you got 200k on the water pump. Did you get the old water pump back from the shop? If so, could you post some pictures of the seals etc? I'm curious now.

Nah, my mechanic is super busy so I did not want to have any asks. It took a month for him to get to it as is, but with this kind of surgery you want to make sure the surgeon knows what they are doing.

 

[ocracokeBound]

You have the 3.5 or 2.7 ? Has this engine needed a significant repair done prior ?

3.5, the only major issue was a PTU replacement. So given the explorer is capable of a all wheels down tow behind my new class c rv it was a no brainer to have the the pre-emptive replacement done.

 

[ocracokeBound]

The engine needed a new oil pump too?

The oil pump is right there under the timing chain. You might as well replace it after you spent $1K to tear the engine apart.

 

[mguy13sport]

This is what mine looked like with 130k miles on it. Bearing had zero play. It was only leaking from the weep hole

IMG-20210505-213302-2

Image IMG-20210505-213302-2 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

 

[Mike D S]

I didn't think to take a pic when I did my WP at 152k, which was leaking pretty agressively from the weep hole.

On mine the bearing felt type and while it didn't turn quite as easily as the new pump it didn't really run rough of have much play. For the seals, other than having an obvious flattened look all the way around, there wasn't a specific place where it was extruded or obviously damaged. I could see a small place where I thought it was probably leaking past the seal into the weep hole area, but it wasn't a smoking gun type situation where I could say "ah ha thats it".

It actually made me think I just lucked out on not having a leak anywhere on the seal and having water into the oil instead of the weep hole. It makes me wonder if there is some slight different in the seal seat or something else that an older worn seal leaks into the weep hole so commonly for a lot of owners instead of just leaking somewhere else along the length of the seal. Basically you have about 30 linear inches of seal and only about 3-4 inches of that is the part that closes the weep hole off. But lots of people get weep hole leaks and the seal looks basically the same all the way around.

 

[ncsuengineer256]

I didn't think to take a pic when I did my WP at 152k, which was leaking pretty agressively from the weep hole.

On mine the bearing felt type and while it didn't turn quite as easily as the new pump it didn't really run rough of have much play. For the seals, other than having an obvious flattened look all the way around, there wasn't a specific place where it was extruded or obviously damaged. I could see a small place where I thought it was probably leaking past the seal into the weep hole area, but it wasn't a smoking gun type situation where I could say "ah ha thats it".

It actually made me think I just lucked out on not having a leak anywhere on the seal and having water into the oil instead of the weep hole. It makes me wonder if there is some slight different in the seal seat or something else that an older worn seal leaks into the weep hole so commonly for a lot of owners instead of just leaking somewhere else along the length of the seal. Basically you have about 30 linear inches of seal and only about 3-4 inches of that is the part that closes the weep hole off. But lots of people get weep hole leaks and the seal looks basically the same all the way around.

Did you replace it yourself?

 

[Mike D S]

Did you replace it yourself?

I did. I posted into this thread on timing chain and water pump replacement.

I had a few hiccups along the way with timing on parts shipping and running into a few challenges but it ended up taking me about three 8 hour days start to finish. Though I wasn't exactly trying to rush it. If I had been pushing I probably could have done it in 16-18 hours and now that I've done it once I could probably get it done in an easy two days if called to do it again and knowing which steps caused delays.

A few of my pain points:
1. Generally I had the truck jacked up too high early. I initially jacked it up high enough to get the passenger tire off and then left it there for the first day and and half. I'm about 5'9" so with the front that high it made getting to the rear valve cover a lot harder than it needed to be. For the install, I ended up lowering the front end back to just high enough where I could get to the oil pan plug without too much trouble but making it much easier to get to the rear of the engine compartment.
2. The main crank pulley was really tough to get loose. I probably spent two hours total getting it off including a run to the local parts place for a longer bar to try to bump it off with the starter (which didn't work for me by the way). At the end of the day I ended up making up a DIY jig using a piece of aluminum bar I had to lock the pulley against the frame. Doing it again I would have just ordered the harmonic balancer holder for $40 and have been done in 5 minutes.
3. I didn't realize the WP bolts were torque to yield and tried to reuse them. I should have just ordered new bolts from the get go. When I realized I needed to replace them I ended up having to drive to two Ford places which killed a couple of hours all together.

The job itself was tedious if not all that difficult to do. I also figured out my accessory belt tensioner was bad in a weird way. The pulley still turned pretty smoothly, but the spring which rotates the arm to provide tension was messed up and it was basically locked in one position. Fortunately it was applying enough tension to keep the belt more or less tight, but it wasn't moving in and out. I ended up having to unbolt the tensioner to get the belt off the first time which killed 20-30 extra minutes while I figured that out.

 

[RonParise]

Wow! I'm impressed that you got 200k on the water pump. Did you get the old water pump back from the shop? If so, could you post some pictures of the seals etc? I'm curious now.

I replaced mine at just over 200000

 

[texsn95]

At 77k now, a few months ago I did a reservoir check when cold, and the coolant was right below the bottom line. Now it's down about 1.5 inches. How does the dealer diagnose a water pump that's leaking back into the motor? I have an EsP and was going to drop it off for something else then noticed this today.

 

[RonParise]

At 77k now, a few months ago I did a reservoir check when cold, and the coolant was right below the bottom line. Now it's down about 1.5 inches. How does the dealer diagnose a water pump that's leaking back into the motor? I have an EsP and was going to drop it off for something else then noticed this today.

I have been sending oil samples to Blackstone labs, Water contamination is one of the things they test for: Blackstone Laboratories

You could also do a "crackle" test Crackle Test: Do You Know Your Detection Limits? - TestOil.

 

[joney]

I have been sending oil samples to Blackstone labs, Water contamination is one of the things they test for: Blackstone Laboratories

You could also do a "crackle" test Crackle Test: Do You Know Your Detection Limits? - TestOil.

Crackle, first I've heard of it. So simple and you'd know right away!

 

[texsn95]

I have been sending oil samples to Blackstone labs, Water contamination is one of the things they test for: Blackstone Laboratories

You could also do a "crackle" test Crackle Test: Do You Know Your Detection Limits? - TestOil.

Cool, never heard of the crackle test. I've used Blackstone many times when monitoring my older M5 motor. I was just curious how the dealership determines that it's leaking.

 

[peterk9]

At 77k now, a few months ago I did a reservoir check when cold, and the coolant was right below the bottom line. Now it's down about 1.5 inches. How does the dealer diagnose a water pump that's leaking back into the motor? I have an EsP and was going to drop it off for something else then noticed this today.

Have you checked the weep hole to see if there is any sign of coolant? Also, check the oil on the dipstick for any 'milky' looking oil.

Peter

 

[mguy13sport]

Get under the car and look around the alternator/ AC compressor for any orange fluid stains. The weep hole directs leaking fluid to this area.

 

[texsn95]

No leaking from what I can tell so far but will check again, and will look at the dipstick as well. I have a contact at the dealer and will give him a head's up. I hate to spend the money, but a Blackstone analysis is probably next just to be sure.

 

[RonParise]

No leaking from what I can tell so far but will check again, and will look at the dipstick as well. I have a contact at the dealer and will give him a head's up. I hate to spend the money, but a Blackstone analysis is probably next just to be sure.

Blackstone is $30

 

[Tgentry]

I hate being the guy that joins only to have his first post be about needing help, but I’ve been lurking here for the better part of a year and now have a depressing reason to reach out for assistance.

This is long, so the summary is 1k miles over warranty, water pump failed without any check engine light or rise in engine temperature, this lead to complete engine failure, dealer wants $7300 to replace engine and Ford won’t help.

Here is a quick history on our 2011 Ford Explorer Limited. Bought it used from a private party in April ’14, it had 48k miles and looked brand new and was completely stock. Here it is after I detailed it:

On March 15, 2015, I loaded up the family (wife, 6 year old, 3 year old, and 6 month old) in Phoenix, AZ for a quick four day vacation in California during Spring Break. Somewhere around Desert Center, CA, aka the middle of the desert, I started hearing a faint rattle under the hood when the tranny downshifted in order to maintain cruise control speed. It would go away when the tranny would shift up to its final gear. I immediately began watching the temperature gauge to see if anything was amiss. Since it was 95 degrees outside, we were an hour away from civilization, there was no check engine light and no change in engine temp, I kept going. The problem continued to worsen over the next 10 minutes until the engine completely lost power. Even as I was pulling off the road, the temperature gauge read normal and there was no check engine light.

As I came to a complete stop and turned the engine off, I got a “low engine oil” warning and a check engine light finally came on. I happened to bring my Bluetooth OBDII reader with me and the code I pulled was P0017 (crankshaft position). I knew something was bad and needed to have the car towed. I called AAA and after being stranded in the desert for three hours, we finally had the car towed to Fiesta Ford in Indio, CA. Anyone ever been without A/C in the desert for three hours with a 6 month old baby? Not fun.

Here are a few pics of us trying to make the best of it:

The car had 61k+ miles on it at the time, a mere 1k over the 60k powertrain warranty (but still under the 5 year), when Fiesta asked if I wanted to spend $2300 to break the engine down in order to see what happened and to see if Ford would warranty it. I felt pretty stuck at this point so I said sure. I’m 300 miles from home, no car, vacation ruined, and I need to safely get my family home somehow.

After spending $350 in renting a minivan to drive home, I hear back from Fiesta. The results were failed water pump which lead to complete engine failure and it was going to cost $7300 to put a new engine in. When the regional Ford rep reviewed the case, they denied the claim because 1) I’m 1k over the warranty, 2) I’m not the original owner and 3) I don’t have enough Ford Loyalty.

Since I have no way to contact this regional rep and this Ford Loyalty score is so crucial, I wanted to prove how loyal a Ford customer I was by sending her my family’s 2011 Christmas card:

We’ve had eight Ford Focus in my family in the last seven years. How’s that for loyal?

Anyways, does anyone have any way to reach out to someone at Ford HQ to re-review this case? What really bugs me is how there was zero warning of a problem even after it was too late. If the water pump failed and the engine light immediately came on or the engine temp started to rise, I would be looking at a new water pump, which I’m totally fine paying for since I’m 1k over warranty. But the car failed to give me any warning and now I have this giant expense staring at me.

Any ideas?

Hello, not sure if your still in this forum but I had the same exact thing happen to me a couple of days ago. Did you ever end up getting any help from Ford with this problem? I was just wondering on what steps to take next since my explorer didn't give me any signs of problems as well.

 

[peterk9]

Hello, not sure if your still in this forum but I had the same exact thing happen to me a couple of days ago. Did you ever end up getting any help from Ford with this problem? I was just wondering on what steps to take next since my explorer didn't give me any signs of problems as well.

Welcome to the Forum.
The member you quoted was last seen here on July 26, 2016. Unless you have an extended warranty, I wouldn't expect any help from Ford or the dealer. I believe your options are a new engine, a rebuilt engine or a used engine. Or another vehicle.

Water pump failure leads to dead engine

So that engine is that much..i wonder how much the sport twin turbo is is say that blew on someone. My 07 G35 blew a engine under warranty with no warning lights..kind of like OP...my oil pump failed Engine was like 12K they said! OP i would write to the GM or owner of the dealer you bought...

www.explorerforum.com

Peter