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Wattage Question 2002 Explorer(HID)??

fedyfedz

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City, State
Suffolk County, NY
Year, Model & Trim Level
2002 limited v8
out of the fog lights, high beams , low beams, in a 2002 explorer ONLY... which light system puts out the most wattage? The reason i ask is I currently have 35w hids in my fog lights and low beams and 55w in high beam the high beams dont work on occasion as to i dont have a relay but they usually always work. I was thinking about putting the 55w in the low beams or fogs but am hesitant because i use both of those lights daily. I seen someone running 55w low beam with no relay and he had same situation as me they might not work once and a while. So i figure i will put the 55w wherever has more power so that it has a better chance of turning on every time.this might be a little confusing.
 



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Just use a relay harness wherever you want to put the lights and all will be well.
All systems put out 12+ volts which is used to power the lamps. As to what the wattage of those lamps are, is up to you.
By not using a harness you could be stressing the OEM wiring at start up of the HIDs. Or not getting enough volts to the ballast to fire the HID bulbs.
 






great thanks I actually looked around probably seen every hid site there is. the current setup im running now only uses about 1 to 2 more volts than the stock bulb at start up, then goes to around 7 or 8 i checked the wattage on those awhile ago in by blazer. The only one i think that would be damaging the oem wires slightly is the 55w hids in brights. Ill probably just end up ordering relay kit for it.
 






The high amperage is the problem.... they all run 12 volts, just like your OEM lighting, so there is NO worry about voltage, the only high voltage in the system comes from the ballast which is basically a capacitor and transformer. The high amperage on the other hand can burn out your wiring or your headlight switch, even with just the HIDs on the low, and even if you were just using a 35 watt kit. They may only draw 2.92 amps while running (4.6 for 55 watt), but the current they need to ignite the bulbs is a lot higher.

Plus, stock wiring is adding a LOT of resistance, adding the relays gives you more stable voltage. There is at least 1 write-up on this site how to build the relays kit for ~$5.

I am having trouble understanding one thing though.... if your HIDs are so bright (night and day) like you said in another thread, why do you need 55 watt HIDs, AND need to run the fogs at the same time to see? One shouldn't normally run their fogs for normal driving anyways, but it seems to me like you are just trying to be an ass to other drivers..... Is there really a place on Long Island NY that is that dark? Or have you added wings to your Explorer and just use all these HIDs as landing lights for when you are out at sea trying to land on aircraft carriers? I only ask because I live in South Dakota, and I have never seen a place in NY state that is that dark, and out here in South Dakota where we don't have the benefit of ambient light from cities, I can see pretty well even with halogen bulbs, though I will admit, there are times when I slow down to match the range of my headlights.... but I am talking about driving 75 through open country filled with critters that wander out on roads, not doing city driving....
 






I currently...hids... 55w in high beam the high beams dont work on occasion

Because of the way HIDs work they should not be used for high beams. They have a prolonged warm up time and are not meant to be switched on and off. That goes for low and high beams but high beams especially since they are used for "flash to pass". Halogen bulbs work better for that.

as to i dont have a relay but they usually always work.

Do not run auxilary lights on stock wiring. Use a relay activated wiring harness with a built in fuse. See this thread for what happens when you don't: Link.

I was thinking about putting the 55w in the ...fogs

Using such high power HIDs in the fogs defeats their purpose. The 35W's are fine, but in foggy conditions 55W plus all the other stuff running will blind you from glare. In fact having just the fogs on alone would be optimal.

have you added wings to your Explorer and just use all these HIDs as landing lights for when you are out at sea trying to land on aircraft carriers?

:D
 






i live on long island much different than city driving. Driving on roads with alot of potholes and poor lighting makes it hard to see with regular halogens, being able to avoid a pothole(manhole), animal(critter) because i can see a broader distance is assuring. The 55w ones i use in my high beams are only used on occasion when i drive upstate in the mountains where there is no lights. I no you dont like hids and hate people that blind you, that's not my intention and if it happens it happens, my lights aren't that bright that the oncoming driver says holy **** i cant see and crashes into a tree. and a certain location as you stated many times doesn't matter there is a mix of different driving conditions in every state. NY has a very broad range of different types of roads and good/bad lighting on certain streets. when you talk about ambient lighting im confused casue i live on long island and its not like the ny city lights light up my path at night to drive. u cant see the ambient light from the city until your toward the end of Nassau county. And if you came to long island/ NY you would realize that everyone has hids and there alot worse than mine, i get blinded nightly, mine are aimed properly and there isnt much glare. I never get brighted
 






The 55w ones i use in my high beams are only used on occasion when i drive upstate in the mountains where there is no lights. I no you dont like hids and hate people that blind you, that's not my intention

Would probably be better to set them up as driving lights then and use halogens in the high beams. There are housings which give amazing, better than high beam, distance for back country driving lights. Something like this: Link.

I actually love HIDs when they're used properly. I have 35W fogs myself and I'm glad you're being considerate. Take a look at this site for more info: Link.
 






Would probably be better to set them up as driving lights then and use halogens in the high beams. There are housings which give amazing, better than high beam, distance for back country driving lights. Something like this: Link.

So you would recommend putting my 55w kit in my low beams?
 






If I could have it setup any way I wanted I'd do this:

35 W Fog lights
55 W Low beams
Halogen High beams
55 W Driving lights

This is only my personal opinion. Please realize that when I say "fog" or "driving" lights I mean housings which are specifically designed to throw light for those patterns. And that when I mention using HIDs I mean in projector housings. The exception being maybe the driving lights considering their purpose.

I'd run my fog lights by themselves under heavy fog conditions given their purpose. However, this is illegal in some states so use your own judgment.
 






Right now i have stock headlight housings and i'am upgrading to the blacked out set i now the projectors is the best way to go but they only have one kit for the 2002-2005 and its really expensive and i dont want to chop up my headlights to custom fit them, might experment with my old headlights after i get my new ones. drove upstate last week and the fog was so intense i used my yellow hid fogs which are designed for the specific reason and they worked great i also ran my driving/fogs that i have mounted behind the grill which are regualr halogen. As of right now i think i might just swap my high's and low's around. 55w in low and 35w in high. i now halogens are better for like flash to pass but i never use them for that, I will proably get yellow for the high beam and keep white or blue for 55w
 






The use of anything besides 4300-4500 K temperature color HID bulbs is both wasteful and dangerous. Colored light gives you less intensity to see with and makes it difficult to discern things at night. The idiots who run around with 10,000 K think it's great but that is sheer ignorance.

In fact using 3000 K for fogs is erroneous as well. You may think you see better with yellow light, but this is likely an illusion. See this thread and the posts by PMD for more information: Link. That poor man tried so hard to get the point across.
 






The use of anything besides 4300-4500 K temperature color HID bulbs is both wasteful and dangerous. Colored light gives you less intensity to see with and makes it difficult to discern things at night. The idiots who run around with 10,000 K think it's great but that is sheer ignorance.

In fact using 3000 K for fogs is erroneous as well. You may think you see better with yellow light, but this is likely an illusion. See this thread and the posts by PMD for more information: Link. That poor man tried so hard to get the point across.

Each company makes there bulbs slightly different, the box i received on one set said 8-10k they are totally white no blue in them, then i ordered another 10k set from a different website and they were totally blue. the lights i run now are totally white except the yellow fogs. Also i tried putting the 10k blue ones that i received in the 55w and its no longer blue but really bright white. 55w washes some color out, when i did have the blue ones in for a short time there were only for show, i have every color cause i wanted to see the difference of each one in different conditions.
 






In fact using 3000 K for fogs is erroneous as well. You may think you see better with yellow light, but this is likely an illusion. See this thread and the posts by PMD for more information: Link. That poor man tried so hard to get the point across.

There are pros and cons to using yellow lights for fogs.... The bright side to yellow is that it is reflected more uniformly than a white light which is actually a combination of several different colors on the spectrum, well more so than yellow at least. Yellow is also good for high contrasting, however, you are reducing your light. Still, yellow has its uses in reduced visibility situations like fog. Any other time, it is completely useless and reducing the amount of visible light a light is producing, plus it adds to eye strain. Though, I will note that I tend to disagree with some of what he has said.... my understanding of optics leads me to a very slightly different conclusion.... Though, I will admit, he is probably on to something when he is talking about the cones/rods and our perception of light.... biology is not my strong suit, so while I can do the physics of optics, I am generally working on considerations that are under an ideal, and not accounting for the shift in human perception that accompanies night vision.... However, I still believe yellow is better for fog because of how water droplets can diffuse and reflect light. Same reason our sky is blue. Light in different wavelengths is reflected/diffused differently by water.

Either way, silly to use HIDs in fogs, because a fog is by nature not supposed to produce incredibly silly amounts of light.

On to another statement. I have nothing against HIDs, I just hate cheap HID retros that just replace the stock bulb in a housing that is not designed for that amount of lumens. I also hate when people are using a bulb that produces light in a different location than the reflector is designed for. Reflectors aren't just a bowl to point light forward. Serious engineering goes into these optics. Manufacturers determine the candela (brightness in specific directions) of a bulb and design reflectors that put certain amounts of light in the direction they need it. Fluting to the back of the reflector or to the lens aids in directing or diffusing light in whatever direction they want it to go.

When you use an HID, you are putting something into the housing that creates an insane amount of lumens compared to the original bulb. Plus, every candela the bulb creates is of a higher magnitude and in a completely different location and direction (unless you find an HID that is creating light at the exact same position as a stock bulb, which, well you cannot). A housing designed for a halogen bulb can NEVER properly direct the light produced because the light is not being distributed in the same directions or intensity. No amount of aiming your headlight can correct this, and, as I have told you before, if you disagree, I welcome you to post up pics of your beam pattern on a wall from 25 feet away. HIDs only kinda work in some aftermarket clear housings even because most aftermarket housings are not designed with correct optics in mind, therefore they primarily function as a spotlight with a little spread (usually side to side), which gives a half passable (but nowhere near good) pattern when using an HID bulb since the HID can produce enough light to compensate for bad optics.

The only thing an improper retrofit tells me when I see them is that the owner is too poor to afford a proper retrofit, or lacks the skills to do the work himself. I put HID retrofit bulbs approximately on the same level as those whistlers you can put in your exhaust pipe to make the turbo sound, edelbrock stickers on a Hyundai with a body kit, big chrome intakes or tiny factory drum brakes that are exposed by large lightweight "racing" wheels. It also tells me that the owner is ONLY concerned with the appearance of their vehicle and damn the other drivers.

Using light in a color other than 4100-4500k also shows that you are only concerned with appearance and not light output, since anything above or below that color temperature is reducing the amount of light just to give a "better" color to your lights. By the way, I'd LOVE to compare your white lights to white lights some time.....

By the way, I have been all over long island.... nowhere in long island is THAT dark. I'm not saying it is lit well enough you can drive around with headlights, but there is a TON of ambient light there. Come out to the northern plains some time and I will show you what dark is. Trust me, you will be amazed at the number of stars you can see in the sky when it gets this dark.
 






ok find im tired or arguing with you....I will no longer post anything about hids on this forum
 






See, this is why it doesn't pay to try and teach people things...

I don't know why I even bother. If you want your poor man ghetto HIDs that is fine, but stop spreading false information, and never drive anywhere near me with them on.
 






i know that information and know that the best way is projector and i will eventually get those im fine with my ghetto lights the way they are ..and im not spreading false information i asked a simple question than put my two cents in...and i will make sure that if i see you driving i will turn off my lights immediately so you dont get upset and vent on the forum every time u see hid post
 






I am taking his biological background as a given as well. I have only very briefly read on the differences of photopic and scotopic vision.

.... However, I still believe yellow is better for fog because of how water droplets can diffuse and reflect light. Same reason our sky is blue. Light in different wavelengths is reflected/diffused differently by water.

Are you referring to Rayleigh scattering of fog droplets? I was under the impression that those particles are too large for that to apply. Otherwise they would appear a preferential color under normal circumstances.

See, this is why... I... bother...[to] stop [the] spreading [of] false information.

I agree.
 






Are you referring to Rayleigh scattering of fog droplets? I was under the impression that those particles are too large for that to apply. Otherwise they would appear a preferential color under normal circumstances.

It is my understanding that the effects, while minimal, still apply, since the light reflected back is part of where the "glare" comes from, and while most water droplets in fog are pretty large, the spaces where you don't have enough moisture to collect into a droplet is still holding quite a bit of water vapor, so there is a fairly sizable range of water particles. Anyways.... even if you go back to just glare, the more redshifted light is going to glare less, so even if you are putting all that light under the fog, light still has to be reflected back to eye level, and can "glare" in either direction. Only difference here is that you are backlighting the fog.

I'm going to read up a bit more on his reasoning. It seems quite interesting, and it is not the reasoning I generally hear from people as to why yellow fogs are not good. It seems a much more sound approach. The only place where I have trouble following his reasoning is the fact that, while yes under night vision circumstances you see a very limited spectrum, when driving and using light to aid vision, your night vision will not be all that is active, since with the amount of light you are producing to illuminate the road, you should under most circumstances be seeing with cones as well.... so your vision should actually stay in the Mesopic range or reach the photopic range. 0.1 cd/m^2 is actually REALLY REALLY dark. I'm actually nearly certain that you are (generally) staying in the Mesopic range of vision when driving somewhere very dark using headlights, that is why you should have some insensitivity to certain colors, giving you some color loss or distortion. Anyways, at any point before you are using scotopic vision, and your vision shifts towards the blue end of the spectrum, you are most sensitive to yellow-green light. But, since yellow is so close to the red end of the spectrum, you can retain some of your night vision function while still keeping your daylight vision functions, whereas white (I believe at least from my limited understanding of the eye) should make your eyes try to shift to daylight vision....

Anyways, I guess I am diverging here..... the reason I suggested that yellow is only usable in reduced visibility situations is just due to the fact that you cannot produce as much light without dealing with a lot of reflectivity, whereas in normal visibility, you can make as much light as you want as long as it is properly directed (read proper optics), plus there is the whole light scatter issue, but that is moving onto a different issue. Therefore, one would think that it is best to make light along a limited wavelength that is close enough to the red end of the spectrum where your night vision is insensitive so that you eyes don't adjust further away from night vision when you cannot produce as much light. Same theory they apply on submarines, all the light is red or yellow where they need light so that the crew members eyes don't shift too far out of night vision. Either way, I would think there is some proof in my reasoning by the fact that 4300k light produces the most usable light at night, even though it is color-shifted more red than actual daylight which is a cool 6500K that our vision is best under during daylight.

anyways, meh, sorry if this post sounds disjointed or if you can't follow my train of thought, I was a little distracted while typing this, and I am trying to remember some things that I never really was good with anyways....

Of course... I don't know how much of this really matters anyways, since fog lights with proper optics are so rare anyways... Most factory fogs are just glorified driving lights put lower down anyways.
 






It is my understanding that the effects, while minimal, still apply

I based my statement off the third paragraph in this page from an optics textbook I was looking through prior to getting involved in HIDs. It was not something I knew off the top of my head.

the light reflected back is part of where the "glare" comes from

Which is why the housings are placed so low. To increase the angle between the rays incident on the water droplets and its return path to your eyes correct?

This is further aided by having an extremely sharp cutoff such as one gets from a projector's cutoff shield. Which prevents light from ineffectively lighting the air above the road (fog cloud) instead of the road surface. Also why I said it may be optimal in heavy fog to drive with only the parking and fog lights on and low beams off. However, this does not address the issue of excessive foreground lighting from the HID intensity which reflects a great amount of useless light. Because you want to see what's ahead of you not directly on the ground in front of you. So a lower cutoff of the beam in addition to the top would seem ideal. You may be interested in this design which takes that into account.

...your night vision will not be all that is active, since with the amount of light you are producing to illuminate the road...your vision should actually stay in the Mesopic range or reach the photopic range.

Very good point that I had not considered.

you cannot produce as much light without dealing with a lot of reflectivity, whereas in normal visibility, you can make as much light as you want as long as it is properly directed

Is this referring to the foreground reflection stated above?

fog lights with proper optics are so rare anyways

I believe you would be interested in the Hella Micro DE lights. There is a good shot of their output in this thread on page five, post number forty six. I actually bought the Blazers first and did not like the bowling of the cutoff. Combined with the blue color of the cutoff it seemed like it might be too much of an eye catcher for cops because it causes a momentary blue flicker to oncoming traffic . So I bit the bullet and got the Hella Micro DE's but haven't had time to install them yet. They have received good reviews on this forum and Hidplanet.

I am no expert in optics but I did try to thoroughly research HIDs before spending a penny on them. I am extremely interested in having the best possible nighttime visibility. Any corrections or insight are appreciated.
 



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I based my statement off the third paragraph in this page from an optics textbook I was looking through prior to getting involved in HIDs. It was not something I knew off the top of my head.

ok.

Which is why the housings are placed so low. To increase the angle between the rays incident on the water droplets and its return path to your eyes correct?

Yes, that lessens the effects. That is also why you don't want a long beam with a fog, because then you would negate the effect.

This is further aided by having an extremely sharp cutoff such as one gets from a projector's cutoff shield. Which prevents light from ineffectively lighting the air above the road (fog cloud) instead of the road surface. Also why I said it may be optimal in heavy fog to drive with only the parking and fog lights on and low beams off. However, this does not address the issue of excessive foreground lighting from the HID intensity which reflects a great amount of useless light. Because you want to see what's ahead of you not directly on the ground in front of you. So a lower cutoff of the beam in addition to the top would seem ideal. You may be interested in this design which takes that into account.

That design seems ok, but a properly designed projector fog should be behind a fluted lens to give a good and wide beam. It does a good job of limiting beam spread vertically..... though I wonder how hot that housing gets with so much of it blocked off. Light = heat. Honestly, it probably isn't THAT important, given how rarely a fog light is actually a functional appliance on a car, and the fact that you would probably get in trouble for driving around with just your fogs and parking lights on most places, even if it increases visibility. Most of the appeal of fog lights is driving around with them on to look cool, and I can admit to not being a 100% function kind of guy myself.

Is this referring to the foreground reflection stated above?

Yeah. Well, not just that, I mean, if you are casting A LOT of light, and putting it a long ways out, it won't matter if you keep the beam cutoff low to the ground, because the stuff further out is reflected back to you on a straighter line, which is going to add to glare. That is why they don't design fogs to put light far out. But yeah, even aside from that, really really bright light focused in a small area is going to increase ambient lighting by reflectivity of the objects around, and then eventually the elements reducing visibility, which means glare. There is probably a formula somewhere to find the ideal amount of luminosity in reduced visibility, but I am not gonna look for it.....

I believe you would be interested in the Hella Micro DE lights. There is a good shot of their output in this thread on page five, post number forty six. I actually bought the Blazers first and did not like the bowling of the cutoff. Combined with the blue color of the cutoff it seemed like it might be too much of an eye catcher for cops because it causes a momentary blue flicker to oncoming traffic . So I bit the bullet and got the Hella Micro DE's but haven't had time to install them yet. They have received good reviews on this forum and Hidplanet.

I am no expert in optics but I did try to thoroughly research HIDs before spending a penny on them. I am extremely interested in having the best possible nighttime visibility. Any corrections or insight are appreciated.

yup, I've heard those Micro DEs are nice. See what I mean though? How many lights do you see marketed as "fog lights"? Compare that to the number of lights actually designed specifically for fog. Those are good pics. I'm no expert in optics either. I just go with the physics I know, it's all pretty universal. The finer points I am fuzzy on of course, which should be pretty obvious since I don't have a lot of practical knowledge on the human eye... but yeah.... going into the really fine points of it don't really have a lot of practical application for our lighting selections. HIDs in properly designed emitters, 4300k = the most usable light, properly designed fogs mounted low for the rare occasion you use them. Sums up everything we need to know right?

I'm on HID planet too, but I never really get involved in the discussions. Actually for the longest time I just lurked there and only registered recently cause I needed to see some attachments.


Though, permit me a rant if you would. For what it is worth, I think HID bulbs are a horrible match for automobiles. Really, they are not an improvement over incandescent bulbs, aside from the fact that they just make more light. Because of all the light they make, it is REALLY difficult to design reflectors that work properly, and you need to block some of the emitted light. The best designs for emitters are projectors, and those have to block a TON of the light just to put the light in the right place. I can't wait until LED forward lighting technology catches up enough for widespread application. I am constantly looking at the.... 2 choices for a 7" round LED headlight.... needless to say, I am not impressed, but look at Prius LED headlights. They are friggen amazing. There are a few other really nice designs out there, and LED technology, I believe, is the best technology we could have for automotive lighting, if for no other reason than the way an LED produces light and the directionality of an LEDs light. Low power, little or no wasted light.... Easy to design a uniform beam with accurate cutoffs without blocking light or having nearly the equivalent of a supercomputer to design a reflector bowl.
 






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