Wheel spacer fitment problems

OK I know this is a contraversial topic, and some of you say spacers are bad and some say I should have any problems with them. But I bought 1" spacers from Carparts.com. I got them yesterday finally, they were on back order. They are the kind that have holes for your existing studs and their own studs for you wheels. My problem is that my studs are too long. How can I make them shorter? They portrude about a 1/2 inch from the spacer. Should I cut them, or is there a way to put shorter ones in? Can someone help me with this. I know I can just cut the studs to the right size, but I dont want to hurt anything. I mean this is my wheels we are talking about. I dont want a wheel falling off going around a turn Anyway, if anyone has experience with this or can give me some insight I would really appreciate it.
Thanks,
Jason

 

[kilroy]

Dude I really suggest you dont put those on! As you can already see you are having problems with them. You are playing with something that you are depending your life and others lives on, in addition of possibly damaging your axles and bearings.

5 years as a mechanic I have seen many things people have done to their ride to make it look "cool", only to wind up having repair costs running hundreds of dollars to replace the axles and bearings. I even had one customer who lost a wheel due to using improper wheels on their vehicle.

I really don't know why your trying to offset your wheels, but your doing it on a vehicle that is top heavy and prone to rolling when a tire or wheel fails, and modifying it in a way that compromises safety is NOT a good idea.

Now on the other hand if you were to use wheels made for a front wheel drive vehicle, then I can see the use of wheel spacers to help bring the centerline of the wheel in line with the bearings. If that were the case I could give you some ideas, but that would require a major amount of work.

 

[GJarrett]

Originally posted by kilroy
I really don't know why your trying to offset your wheels, but your doing it on a vehicle that is top heavy and prone to rolling when a tire or wheel fails, and modifying it in a way that compromises safety is NOT a good idea.

Well as I see it, that's exactly why he wants to do it. To get a wider stance to help offset the "top heavy and prone to rolling" tendency that you yourself just quoted.

His choice -- as I see it -- is to widen his stance to help mitigate a safety situation he may have to face; or take the chance of a rollover and then killing his loved ones because he heard it might fry his axle bearings to put spacers on. Lessee here, what a decision, fry my bearings or kill my wife....

I only say this to get some input from our membership. Just thought I would stir up the pot a little; since I am considering getting spacers too, and I have yet to hear about any dangerous events occuring as the result of the dozens of membership that installed big tires with less-backspaced wheels which present the very same stress on bearing offset as spacers.

I've already heard all the down-talk toward spacers but find it fascinating that I've heard none at all concerning all the dozens of installations of aftermarket wheels with non-stock backspacing, nor any horror stories concerning bearings frying once the aftermarket wheels were installed on our Explorers.

This site is dedicated to offroad, and as such assumes that more maintenance may be required on our vehicles than that needed by my neighbor's Explorer that attends the local grade-school soccer match.

My Explorer now sits 4"+ higher than a stocker, and my treadwidth is still at the stock dimension. I personally think it would be an acceptable idea to get it wider. Kilroy certainly has a point and I respect his opinion. But I would like to hear some more insight into this from others who may have already done the mod.

My current position is that I would rather replace bearings, than roll my vehicle while my eight year old son is in it.

Just my extry peso again,

[Edited by GJarrett on 09-15-2000 at 10:09 PM]

 

[Xplor]

This is exactly is my concern too. Kilroy, I like to hear more about your ideas about front wheel dive wheels. If I bought the "billet" adapters, what sort of major work will be needed? I talked to a honest wheel salesperson and ask about any complaints with adapters on wheels. He said a few people just complain about uneven tire wear. Which most of due are to modified (lowered or raised) suspension. Jornum1, isn't there a wheel shop where you live at? You probably have better luck with it that way. Some of these shops will test fit the adapters with the wheels

 

[kilroy]

Hey I was just trying to save you guys from the headaches and expense of putting something on a vehicle that wasn't really designed to use them. If you want to use them, go ahead, I was just forewarning on what the consequences would be down the road. I'm not talking out my butt on this, I have seen it first hand. Wheel bearings so trashed that the wheel either locks up permantly requiring replacement of the whole spindle assembly, or worse yet, the wheel falling off. That was my point about the top heavy rolling part. Sure offsetting the wheel 1" on either side will make it a "little" more stable, but that 1" won't help prevent a rollover when the wheel falls off. I'm sorry but this is the only mod I can see that is potentially dangerous to both you and others on the road.

I had a car in the shop one day that the owner had used offset wheels, He complained of a shimmy. I put the car on the lift and as the car started going up, the wheel fell off! The weight of the car was the only thing holding the wheel on. It was the left front wheel, just imagine if that wheel came off on the highway. Has anyone experienced a wheel seperation on the highway? I have first hand, it's not a pretty sight unless you think a car digging into the pavement and flipping a few times is cool. during the years of 88-90 I drove a semi over the road, so I have seen more accidents than I care to remember, some you don't forget, like a biker who was doing at least 110 MPH when he slammed into the back of a car and flew into a light pole, not the vertical part, the horizontal part that the light itself is on. It killed him instantly, but they needed at least two body bags to haul him away.

So this is just a warning message as to what can happen using offsets on your wheels. If you use them, just let me know when your driving around the Chicago area so that I can stay out of your way.

 

[wabbit]

there's more than one way to space a wheel...

The negative reports I have heard are in regards to the old econo-spacers that used to be prevalent. I don't know if they even sell them anymore. The old type were thick rings with a TON of holes drilled in them for universal fit. They also did not have their own studs. Instead, they used "sunken" lug nuts which threaded down into the holes.
The new types I've seen are bolt pattern specific and incorporate a wheel stud set into the spacer ring.
As far as the offset and bearing loads. Spacers are no different than wider wheels with different offsets than stock.
Of course, the geometry of the steering/suspension is affected in both applications. However, it is not a safety concern unless your pair these mods with a driver/owner that is oblivious to the required maintenence of his/her vehicle.
As Kilroy said, this can be dangerous. As Gerald said, maintainence requirements are affected by modifications.
We will continue to do mods to our Explorers that deviate from the original configuration. But hopefully we do it with a firm understanding that there are pros and cons to just about everything...




[Edited by wabbit on 09-16-2000 at 09:53 AM]

 

[kilroy]

Yes that old design is extremely bad. I haven't seen these new types, so I can't comment on them, but the old design requires the use of longer studs, which because of the holes not being snug against the stud causes flex in the stud itself, and the lugnut winds up loosening itself. So if you don't check your lugnuts often the wheel can come off that way also.

BTW repacking the bearings every 6 months isnt going to prevent the improper wear that occurs from offset loads. If you do this, make sure you pull those bearings every 10K and inspect them carefully. Look for blueing, cracks, or anything out of the ordinary, and replace them if you see any. Now I don't know the setup on the front shaft bearing on the Explorer, but if they are anything like some of the other FWD cars I have worked on, the bearings are sealed and press fit into the hub, so examining then can be a pain. Those are the type of bearings that really cause problems when using offsets.

Another thing to consider when using offsets so that larger tires can be used. You may clear the inside when turning, but then since the geometry has changed, the tire might rub on the outside when turning. So you would need to modify body panels and bumpers so the tires clear.

 

[GJarrett]

Answer for Jason

Poor Jason. He got a good thread started for us but nobody has bothered to answer his original question.

Jason, it won't hurt to cut the excess stud length off. The studs press fit into your wheel and cost something like $1.19 each at your Ford dealership. If you need to go back to stock, you could just buy new studs and install them on your wheels.

And I am personally still sitting on the fence on this one. Kilroy is right, of course, but the point in time is going to come -- probably already has -- when I need to take a serious look and widening my stance.

 

[SteveVB]

Jason

I doubt cutting the studs would do any harm- just remember that if you go back to stock you will have to replace the studs with the correct length.

I personally wouldnt be too worried about running the spacers you describe. The spacers that bolt to the hub and have their own studs are the kind to get if you need the clearance, they remove the need for the extra long studs that Kilroy is justifiably worried about. As others have stated I doubt the wear would be much greater than a wheel with an equivalant amount of backspacing.

The big thing to remember is that you now have TWICE AS MANY LUGS TO CHECK. Those that hold the spacer to the hub, and those that hold the wheel to the spacer. Get your torque wrench out and retorque them all when you check them.

Have Fun

 

[BLKDIMND]

how much is to much??????

Yes that old design is extremely bad. I haven't seen these new types, so I can't comment on them, but the old design requires the use of longer studs, which because of the holes not being snug against the stud causes flex in the stud itself, and the lugnut winds up loosening itself. So if you don't check your lugnuts often the wheel can come off that way also.

BTW repacking the bearings every 6 months isnt going to prevent the improper wear that occurs from offset loads. If you do this, make sure you pull those bearings every 10K and inspect them carefully. Look for blueing, cracks, or anything out of the ordinary, and replace them if you see any. Now I don't know the setup on the front shaft bearing on the Explorer, but if they are anything like some of the other FWD cars I have worked on, the bearings are sealed and press fit into the hub, so examining then can be a pain. Those are the type of bearings that really cause problems when using offsets.

Another thing to consider when using offsets so that larger tires can be used. You may clear the inside when turning, but then since the geometry has changed, the tire might rub on the outside when turning. So you would need to modify body panels and bumpers so the tires clear.

All these tips are getting me worried about the offset rims i have.How much difference in offset is to much ,i am using -13 offset is that ok?

 

[hunterdan]

Here is my opinion on wheel spacers, the old style that fits a bunch of different bolt patters, they are still available by the way, are junk and should probably be pulled from the market. Yeah, they may be ok on a light honda where they need a tiny bit of clearance. The machined spacers such as these http://www.spidertrax.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.4/.f
are the way to go as far as I'm concerned. But I wouldn't run anything more than 1.5" If I would use a set, I would also put loctite on the threads of the bolts holding the spacers to the hub, the removable stuff. If these are properly set, there would be no difference between wheels with spacers and wheels of a similar offset. Although, depending on the type of wheels you run, it may be cheaper to buy a new set of wheels as these types of spacers can run $250 or more.

Dan

 

[William Schumacher]

I've run 1.5" spacers for awhile now...

and haven't had a single problem with them !

I'm actually going to post an add for them as I've lifted 5" and finally installed my new wheels/33" tires to match the 4.56 gears that were also put in.