Who says us V6 guys cant have an electric water pump?

[BrooklynBay]

On the Meziere message board forums, did anybody mention MPG, or HP gains besides it's longevity?

 

[Larry2010]

Actually you may be mistaken as far as ineficiencies. Man i cant spell... Motors, with propper controllers, can get 90%+ efficiency, and im sure alternators can do the same. Its just a mater of design. Not trying to argue, just throwing out my idea. Even still, ive seen documented cases (wish i could cite sources but i cant) where an elecric pump did in fact improve power. Not to mention it'd be a lot of fun and kinda cool to do

Hi INH, I agree it'll be interesting to experiment with and that you can definitely get improved power in racing situations. I also agree that you can get a 90% efficient electric motor and a 90% efficient alternator .... so you only have a 20% energy loss I'd have to find a way to measure the energy required to run the mechanical pump and compare ... hmmm sounds like an interesting analysis project but it'll have to wait till I get moved and get back into a garage. I'll write it up if I do it.

 

[Afboy143]

I just cant justifiy the $$ cost of this. I got the efan, exhaust and intake..soon to be tuned but this I cannot be sold to.

 

[Buzzsaw]

I would think if you did the electric fan then the electric water pump would just be a natural progression as a logical next step and they both are replacing mechanical parts. I guess the fact that the water pump would need to run constantly whereas the fan can be shut off at highway speeds and only run when it's really needed. Sounds like these are all the same pro and con arguments as you heard for the electric fan versus the mechanical one. :smoke:

 

[Larry2010]

Yeah, we're probably talking pennies per year difference so it's just a matter of preference and the time/money anyone has to put into our expensive hobby )

 

[wpurple]

I would also think that there would be minimal gain 30 or 40 Amps is good for a fair amount of HP.

 

[JDraper]

On the Meziere message board forums, did anybody mention MPG, or HP gains besides it's longevity?

I dyno'd my Mach before and after...11hp at the rear wheels more with the electric pump.

 

[Larry2010]

Wow that's amazing!! I'm not questioning your results but am surprised it takes 11hp to run the water pump!!!

 

[JDraper]

Water is a very strong force. The density causes quite a bit of resistance. Forcing the impellers through the water at high rpm chews up quite a bit of power. At low rpm, there is almost no gain. It's all on the top end.

There are more advantages besides hp gains. A mechanical water pump's flow varies with rpm. At idle in traffic, you're flowing a lot less water than at speed. The electric pump flows the same amount of water all the time (which is more than a stock pump at idle) so you're cooling is more consistent and better in traffic.

BTW, I've heard of gains anywhere from 5 rwhp to 18 rwhp depending upon the car and application. The 4.6 dohc motors seem to average around 10-12 hp gains with the Meziere pump.

 

[410Fortune]

I assume on the mach there is still a pulley where the waterpump once was?

11 HP is alot, but we are talking a performance minded engine, your V6 would likely see more like 5-7 HP I would think.
The waterpump pushes all the coolant through the whole cooling system, its not hard to believe removing that from the crank and replacing it with a free wheeling pulley would gain you that much RWHP.

I loved the e fan on my 4.0L, felt like a whole different truck off the line and my fan clutch worked just fine....but then in low range crawling it couldnt keep it cool.

I am considering dual e fans on my 5.0L BII however, I believe with my all aluminum large radiator the e fans could keep my rig cool under all conditions...

 

[JDraper]

I assume on the mach there is still a pulley where the waterpump once was?...

Yep, a very lightweight aluminum pulley on a high end bearing. Very low mass and low mechanical drag.

 

[Larry2010]

Well, I was just surprised based on comparing to portable water pump systems ... I've had em rated at 250-275 gallons per minute with a 5.5 HP motor. The highest volumn Meziere I saw was 55 GPM. I realize the circulation path in an engine is pretty restrictive plus it's pressurized. Still having a hard time understanding needing 11hp for 30 or 40 gpm. Again, I belive your reports but I'll test it someday for myself.

 

[Doubt Incarnate]

i dunno, 1/2" or even 3/4" fittings are heck of a lot smaller than the hoses going to/from the radiator. for the money i'd probly try and rig up a cheap bilge pump from ebay, they have up to 1 1/4" fittings, but i guess heat would be the key factor in my ideas failure.

 

[BrooklynBay]

It has to have a 100% duty cycle rating, so I don't know if a bilge pump can handle that kind of stress, and heat. If you want to get creative, then hook up a cartridge circulator pump like they use on hot water base board heat with an inverter. @ 120 volts AC, they require about 0.71 amps, which is less than one amp. I know that the inverter is also using power, but it will provide active regulation. When there is a sudden surge, the inverter will make up for it. On a linear regulator, there is no regualtion when there is a surge. They are only passive devices. It will only provide full voltage, and stop when it reaches a predetermined threshold level.

 

[BrooklynBay]

Those cartridge circulators are made to withstand 100% duty cycle, are very quiet, don't require any oil (the big ones do), and have flange adapters that are available in sizes from 3/4"-1-1/2". Lowes sells them for about $60. I did a search on the WWW.Taco-Hvac.Com website, and found one interesting model. It is a dc controlled, variable voltage model with status LEDs. Here is the link: http://www.taco-hvac.com/products.html?current_category=169, and a picture of it:

 

[Doubt Incarnate]

that looks cool, another thing i thought of was that the bilge pump would probly flow to much. the water would scream through the block and radiator to fast to grab the heat or cool off.

 

[BrooklynBay]

One advantage to the variable voltage set up is that you could use a temperature controller, or maybe a coolant sensor to vary the voltage input to this device. As the engine's temperature rises, the voltage will increase, and tell the pump to turn faster. As the temperature is decreasing, so will the pump's speed. It wouldn't require as much power to run in this mode of operation.

 

[BrooklynBay]

I used the basic $60 model pump from Lowes to make my own parts washer out of a laundry sink. Those submersible pumps are no match to one of these!

 

[inh]

Hmm. man i really want an electric pump but the flow rates fro the remote mount ones are just way to low... i dunno anymore

 

[Larry2010]

I doubt if you'll get enough volumn & pressure out of that kind of pump ... the mfg's spec sheet doesn't even list flow rate so that's not important in a recirc pump. Are you sure you want to risk your expensive truck on a cheap part that's not designed for the rugged use, long duty cycle, temperatures, flow rate and pressure that is required by your engine?????