Should there be any play at all in front wheel bearings?

[runderwo]

I had my truck on jacks today replacing the whole steering linkage and noticed that both front wheels have about 1/4" of play when the tire was on.

I removed the tires and played with the exposed end of the axle in the spindle and there was a similar bit of play in both sides. I am inclined to believe that the axle end should be tight with no play.

I have a 4X4 with the Dana 35 front axle.

If this is not normal, could this just be a loose hub or do I need to change the bearings?

 

[bmxking5]

Wheel bearings shouldn't have any play. If they have not been replaced recently it is probably not just a loose hub nut, and I would go ahead and change them out. Just make sure that the play isn't coming from the ball joints.

 

[runderwo]

If there is play in the exposed end of the axle in the spindle, that rules out the ball joints, so if it's not normal for the axle to be able to wiggle around in the spindle I think the only thing it could be is the bearings. I am just surprised that both sides are bad exactly the same way.

 

[Tony H]

If you packed teh bearings lately and tightened them, it is possible a little greases squeezed out leaving 'play' I'd snug them a bit and listen to make sure they are not growling.

 

[runderwo]

I don't hear any noise at all. I was totally surprised to encounter play in the wheel. But I'm going to change the bearings anyway as I have no idea when they were previously done and it's a small and cheap job anyway. I need a front end alignment and I don't want wheel wobble throwing off an expensive alignment.

 

[Tony H]

If there is play in the exposed end of the axle in the spindle, that rules out the ball joints, so if it's not normal for the axle to be able to wiggle around in the spindle I think the only thing it could be is the bearings. I am just surprised that both sides are bad exactly the same way.

Sometimes you can't get the rear Seal out so make sure you buy those too.
If bearings are maintained properly (repacked) you should not need to replace them for well into the 6 digit numbers. I have 300K miles on a few cars with their original Bearings and races

 

[Maniak]

I had my truck on jacks today replacing the whole steering linkage and noticed that both front wheels have about 1/4" of play when the tire was on.

I removed the tires and played with the exposed end of the axle in the spindle and there was a similar bit of play in both sides. I am inclined to believe that the axle end should be tight with no play.

I have a 4X4 with the Dana 35 front axle.

If this is not normal, could this just be a loose hub or do I need to change the bearings?

Do you mean you grabbed the splined axle that is sticking through the spindle and it moved around? If so, that is normal.. The axle shaft does move around and its the hub that keeps it centered.

The bearings actually ride on the spindle which is bolted tight to the steering knuckle and the axle shaft just goes "through" all of that...

Movement when you grab the tire at the 12 and 6 position is either ball joints or wheel bearing. If its Wheel bearing you will have the same amount of movement when your hands are at 3 and 9. It helps to have a 2nd person so you can see if the entire knuckle is moving while you wiggle the tire. IF not, its definitely bearing.

Depending on how loose the bearings are, you can grab the top/bottom of the brake rotor and make it wiggle just like you can the tire when the bearings are loose.

~Mark

 

[Tony H]

Good catch Mark. Yes it sounds like he grabbed the Axle not the spindle.
The axle will have 'play' the Spindle should not.
If there is movement at the Wheel studs you need to tighten the Spindle nut to tighten up the bearings. If the Splined axle is the only thing that is moving... that's OK

 

[runderwo]

Thanks for the detailed explanation, I will check this more thoroughly today with a helper to see exactly where it is moving when the tire is wiggled. I would not be surprised if either the ball joints or the wheel bearing were shot. It's just not every day I see something bad in the same way on both sides at the same time so this thread has been very helpful.

 

[Tony H]

Here's some more info. If the Tire has 'Play' in it when you push and pull at the 3:00 and 9:00 position as well as the 12:00 and 6:00 position. It's Probably loose Bearings.

If there is Play only when you hold the tire at 12:00 and 6:00. then it's probably Ball joints.

 

[runderwo]

Looks like the bearing was loose because despite the little "key" piece, the spindle nut had backed off somewhat. I cleaned everything up, repacked the outer bearing, and loaded the bearing properly and now there's no more "wiggle" on the rotor at least on that one side. I'll see if everything is still tight after the tires are back on both sides.

 

[runderwo]

Then I drove it for a little while and they're loose again with about 1/4 inch play on the tires. They must be bad? One thing I'm wondering about is in order to get the lock pin to slide back in, I have to back the nut off a little bit from the final in-lb torque.

 

[ranger-93]

Then I drove it for a little while and they're loose again with about 1/4 inch play on the tires. They must be bad? One thing I'm wondering about is in order to get the lock pin to slide back in, I have to back the nut off a little bit from the final in-lb torque.

Now I know some on here might say it's wrong but it's how "I" do it. I don't even use in-lb, I just tighten the nut to seat the bearings, back off, then I make them tight. But not so tight the rotor can't turn because that's to tight, I find a happy medium where it's not turn loose but not to tight. IIRC when I have the nut how tight I want it the rotor can still make 1-1.5 turns

 

[Maniak]

I've done the front bearings enough that I do it by feel now.. But, when I was still doing it by the wrench I would crank down on the inner nut, spin it a few times, loosen it, do that again, then set the final inch pound. Then you get the ring on there, put on the outter nut and tighten it as much as I could.

I don't know if you noticed, but the "ring" can move somewhat since the tab on the ring is normally pretty small compared to the slot it goes into. If it turns enough backwards it will remove some preload from the bearing which isn't good. Some people (Paul Gagnon is one I can remember) have welded and resized the tab on the ring so it can't move in the slot.

~Mark

 

[runderwo]

I have auto hubs so I think I don't have the "ring" you're talking about. I have a big spindle nut, a little lock piece that locks the nut in place, two thin washers, a cam with spring garter, a lock washer that goes in front of that, and a snap ring that holds it all together.

So would it be better if instead of backing off from final in-lb to get the lock into place that I tightened it, as long as the wheel still moves freely?

Also, do you go out of your way to pack the inside of the rotor full of grease or is packing the bearings themselves and smearing them with grease enough?

 

[rickybobby]

you dont want too much grease on the bearings, if it gets into the auto hubs it can cause problems. i would try to re-tighten the bearings and if they get loose again it needs new bearings

 

[Maniak]

I have auto hubs so I think I don't have the "ring" you're talking about. I have a big spindle nut, a little lock piece that locks the nut in place, two thin washers, a cam with spring garter, a lock washer that goes in front of that, and a snap ring that holds it all together.

So would it be better if instead of backing off from final in-lb to get the lock into place that I tightened it, as long as the wheel still moves freely?

Also, do you go out of your way to pack the inside of the rotor full of grease or is packing the bearings themselves and smearing them with grease enough?

Doeth!. Its been so long since I've had auto hubs it didn't even occur to me that you might have them...

Yes, if its still backing off, all you can do is try to get it slightly tighter but do check to see if its getting too tight.

As for the grease, Yes, I take the extra grease and pack it into the center of the rotor. I figure it will keep keep water from getting through the hub to the other bearing if water somehow gets to one side.

~Mark

EDIT: If you fill the void between the bearings I don't see much grease going through the bearing and going into the hub. At least not enough to cause a problem. If you pack the hub, thats a different story.

 

[runderwo]

Is there only one spindle nut position that is valid for the lock piece to go in? This is what forces me to reset the nut to a non-optimal position after loading it correctly. Or should I set the nut to the appropriate torque and try to punch the lock in with a little force?

 

[Maniak]

IIRC, you have 1 spot on the spindle and multiple spots on the nut. I would turn the nut "more" to get the key into the nut but I would not force it in.. I think I remember reading the instructions for the auto hub nut saying turn it to the next position.

~Mark

 

[runderwo]

Ok, if by "next position" you mean next position tighter that must be what I'm screwing up.