1997 Mountaineer No Start - No Good Deed Goes Unpunished

[Meadowlark Lemon]

Well, after R&Ring and cleaning the EGR valve, I had the pleasure of bringing the Mountaineer home on a flatbed tonight. Drove 50 miles to the airport Monday, left it parked there two nights and went to start it up this afternoon and the relay / solenoid on the drivers fender clicks pretty solidly and it sounds like the starter clicks also, but no crank. The first time I hit the key it sounded like it made about a half a turn then stopped. Hooked it up to a couple of different jump boxes and still no crank. Tried whacking the starter with a hammer and still no crank.

Temps were in the teens while I was gone, but definitely above freezing when I got back and tried to drive home. My best guess is the starter gave up while parked, but I have never seen one go bad out of the blue like that. Any other ideas before I R&R the starter? Could it be the factory anti theft system? None of the keys I have appear to have any kind of chip, and I've tried three different ones.

Thanks,

Andrew

 

[EB4X]

You're skipping one of the basics.... take off battery terminals and thoroughly clean / wire brush ...with partial crud on them enough voltage is getting through to click the solenoid but that's about it.... it could be starter etc but get this one out of the way first.... and put voltmeter on battery to see where it's at...

 

[410Fortune]

agreed many "weak starter" issues are actually battery terminal issues and or power wires issues
The starter wiring must be clean and free from corrosion on the battery side and the starter side of things
With a 97 truck there is still a fender mounted starter solenoid, you should have tried to jumper that when you were trying the jump starts to see if the starter would turn
So check the wiring at the battery, clean terminals, nice tight connections, no corrosion inside the wires
Check the ground wires from the battery, they lead to the frame, body and to the engine
Remove and bench test the starter
Check battery voltage, test the battery
Test alternator voltage or bench test the alternator
If the battery light is on then check your alt / generator FUSE (yes there is a small fuse for the power circuit on the voltage regulator for the alternator) if that fuse blows the alternator will not charge and the battery light should come on in the dash

 

[Meadowlark Lemon]

Thanks for the valuable input guys, it is good to get a little grounded sometimes - I started jumping to a lot of conclusions while I was waiting for the tow truck in the cold!

Anyway, battery connections are clean and tight - I had a wrench and was able to remove & reinstall while waiting to the tow truck.

I did try jumping the solenoid and I got a spark and a single click from the starter each time.

I will pull the battery and check voltage / put it on a nice long charge for starters and take a closer look at the condition of the wires themselves for the battery and starter.

Is there such a thing as a factory anti theft system on a 1997 Mountaineer? Would it show symptoms like this, or does it allow you to crank and just cut fuel?

Thanks!

Andrew

 

[H2opro]

I had the same weak starter problem this week. It would crank over like the battery was dying. It's a brand new battery and starter. I went under the truck and looked at the + wire that goes to the starter. Had a cut in it and the wire was green. I was able to pull the cable into 2 pieces it was so ate up. Starts perfect now with new cables.

 

[410Fortune]

no pats in 97
PATS only disables injectors in 98-01

 

[Meadowlark Lemon]

Thanks for the info on the PATS. There is a red 'theft' light on the dash that comes on sometimes when I lock the doors, not sure what it's purpose is.

Anyway, I did a little more digging on the issue today and was able to get my phone under the car and snap the attached photo. Looks like the hot wire from the solenoid to the starter motor corroded in two! I definitely have not seen that one before! So the power was getting from the fender mounted relay to close the solenoid on the starter (the two clicks I get) but the juice didn't have any path out of the solenoid.

Any chance this is repairable? Seems a shame to drop the money on a 'new' starter of parts store quality if I can get this one back in action. I figure a factory part with 180K on it is often better than what they sell at Autozone. Any recommendations on a good quality replacement?

Thanks,

Andrew

 

[410Fortune]

yes buy a NEW starter never reman
Or
take yours to local starter/alternator shop and have it rebuilt
Or
rebuild it yourself!! YEAH!!!

What engine in your 97? 4.0 pushrod, 4.0 overhead cam or 5.0 pushrod?

 

[974X4BLACKSPORT]

1997 FORD EXPLORER 4.0L V6 OHV Starter Brush | RockAuto

 

[Meadowlark Lemon]

Just closing the loop on this one, I put the replacement starter in and she fired right up with tremendous enthusiasm!! I've never heard this truck crank so fast! I tore into the old starter a little bit and it looks like that braided cable that broke in two is attached directly to the brushes. If there is a next time and I am not in such a hurry as simple brush replacement kit would have fixed this starter up nicely! Of course I am not sure the sell those as a service part.

Bad news is my P0402 is back, so it is probably time to start replacing EGR system components.

Thanks again for all of you expertise on these subjects!

 

[donalds]

This is where I bought my starter kit four years ago. Still going strong I also rebuilt my alternator

L10 | Alternator Starter Rebuild Kits

 

[koda2000]

My 2 cents...

I'd say that if you have the time to mess around with rebuilding your starter yourself it's an option. However, a rebuilding service has the ability to do more than just install a few new parts in your old starter. They can also test your motor's windings and recondition your armature's contact surface.

If all you starter needs is what comes in the rebuild kit you can definitely save some money doing it yourself, but going into Winter there is a risk that your DIY repair may be short-lived or unreliable. Having to replace a starter multiple times is a PITA and inconvenient, especially if your your vehicle is 4WD/AWD.

I used to buy reman starters and alternators, but the quality of these reman's seems to have gone way down in resent years. This seems to be especially true of reman's purchased from Advance Auto Parts. If I needed a starter tomorrow I'd probably buy new. If I had the time (and another vehicle to drive in the meantime) I might take my old starter apart and determine if it appeared to be rebuild-able, or take it to a trusted local rebuilding service, but my time is worth something and IMO the cost of a rebuild + my time comes out to about the same cost as just buying a new starter.

In the end, for what makes the most sense for you, your skills and your budget.

 

[donalds]

My 2 cents...

I'd say that if you have the time to mess around with rebuilding your starter yourself it's an option. However, a rebuilding service has the ability to do more than just install a few new parts in your old starter. They can also test your motor's windings and recondition your armature's contact surface.

If all you starter needs is what comes in the rebuild kit you can definitely save some money doing it yourself, but going into Winter there is a risk that your DIY repair may be short-lived or unreliable. Having to replace a starter multiple times is a PITA and inconvenient, especially if your your vehicle is 4WD/AWD.

I used to buy reman starters and alternators, but the quality of these reman's seems to have gone way down in resent years. This seems to be especially true of reman's purchased from Advance Auto Parts. If I needed a starter tomorrow I'd probably buy new. If I had the time (and another vehicle to drive in the meantime) I might take my old starter apart and determine if it appeared to be rebuild-able, or take it to a trusted local rebuilding service, but my time is worth something and IMO the cost of a rebuild + my time comes out to about the same cost as just buying a new starter.

In the end, for what makes the most sense for you, your skills and your budget.

Agreed but I still don't trust the 16 yo guy that gets minimum wage at the rebuild remain place that supplies the local auto parts store Here anyway
took me a half hour to build mine Inc testing the armature and commutator
A remain from any rebuilder replaces the same parts which all come in the kit
However a brand new ford starter I is the way to go as you suggest

But imo a new starter $120 .acdelco complete rebuild kit $30 that's $180 a half hour to pay yourself or $90 if it takes an hour but I am eager and like to know I'm putting quality parts in it

Again I Believe we are on the same page

Not trying to pis you off just
Good conversation

 

[koda2000]

Agreed but I still don't trust the 16 yo guy that gets minimum wage at the rebuild remain place that supplies the local auto parts store Here anyway
took me a half hour to build mine Inc testing the armature and commutator
A remain from any rebuilder replaces the same parts which all come in the kit
However a brand new ford starter I is the way to go as you suggest

But imo a new starter $120 .acdelco complete rebuild kit $30 that's $180 a half hour to pay yourself or $90 if it takes an hour but I am eager and like to know I'm putting quality parts in it

Again I Believe we are on the same page

Not trying to pis you off just
Good conversation

I did say to use a "trusted local rebuilder". There are no 16 year old's working at the rebuilder I have used for 25+ years. It's a small family-owned business that's been around for 50 years. I'm not saying that you are incapable of rebuilding your starter, but not everyone here may be up to the task.

 

[donalds]

Wishing I had a good rebuilder i walked in there and saw that kid prying on a alternator with a flathead screwdriver and never went back lol

it is getting harder to find good service for anything these days rite

 

[410Fortune]

P0402 Excessive flow detected
USUALLY this is a bad DPFE sensor
but first you should check the EGR feed tubes and make sure they are in good shape
You can remove the DPFE and see if the passages are plugged up
After that the EGR valve itself is suspect or blockage from carbon deposits
like I said with that code and these engines 9 times out of 10 its a bad DPFE
Differential Pressure Feedback sensor EGR

 

[koda2000]

Wishing I had a good rebuilder i walked in there and saw that kid prying on a alternator with a flathead screwdriver and never went back lol

it is getting harder to find good service for anything these days rite

Ain't that the truth. I just got off the phone with my medical insurance provider. I was on the phone for 40 mins, got transferred 3 times (never to the right department) and finally to someone who was able to tell me that my cost of the medication I was prescribed would be a 20% insurance copay. 20% of what? 20% of $20,000 is different than 20% of $200. I was told then told that w/out the "J-code" they didn't know. Where do I get the J-code from? They didn't know and they suggested I contact my physician. I did and was told while it's called a J-code the code is actually M86.9. Okay, now I have to call my insurance provider back and repeat the 40 min phone call, because I can't speak to the person I was just speaking to earlier!

 

[Meadowlark Lemon]

Ok, here I am reviving this thread from 9 months ago. I think the predictions / warnings many of you gave regarding parts store remans is holding true in my case. Not that I didn't believe you, more I was in a hurry and half expected the truck to rust in half before this starter gave out. Long story short, I am occasionally getting no crank and a loud click (probably the underhood relay) when I turn the key. If I turn it again, everything starts up normally. I am guessing this is an issue with the solenoid mounted on the starter? So another starter replacement is in my future?

Thanks,

Andrew

 

[CDW6212R]

Ain't that the truth. I just got off the phone with my medical insurance provider. I was on the phone for 40 mins, got transferred 3 times (never to the right department) and finally to someone who was able to tell me that my cost of the medication I was prescribed would be a 20% insurance copay. 20% of what? 20% of $20,000 is different than 20% of $200. I was told then told that w/out the "J-code" they didn't know. Where do I get the J-code from? They didn't know and they suggested I contact my physician. I did and was told while it's called a J-code the code is actually M86.9. Okay, now I have to call my insurance provider back and repeat the 40 min phone call, because I can't speak to the person I was just speaking to earlier!

Hey, isn't this new no contact world we live in now, wonderful? Most phone calls go that way now, either wrong people or wrong answers, and that's after ridiculous ling waiting.

To the OP, I would replace the starter again. If the main cable and wires leading to it are in good shape, tight and clean of corrosion, the starter is the best bet. I like OEM starters including rebuilds of stock, they are very reliable. Thirty plus years ago there was a need for better starters, and the aftermarket is full of them. But Ford in the 80's finally began making smaller and stronger starters, basically what the aftermarket had done before then. So now a stock one is as good as any high end brand, and those are even more expensive. The cheap brands are truly cheap, and a bad bet.