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10 Startlingly Dangerous Cars

Discussion in 'Stock 1991 - 1994 Explorers' started by L.A.X, February 9, 2014.

^^Searches ExplorerForum.com^^





  1. Jason94sport

    Jason94sport Well-Known Member

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    Roll cages??? You serious? You believe everything you read?
    Maintain your tires & air pressures, your brakes & don't drive like a moron & you'll be just as ok as everything else out there.

    BTW almost all the rollover BS were in the 2nd gens. That accident you posted is a 2nd gen.
    The suspension design of the TTB in 1st gens actually makes them less prone to roll over. However hit anything hard enough in the right spot & it will flip.
     
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  3. Explorer0204

    Explorer0204 Active Member

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    All I can say is you can't roll a third gen for crap! They will body roll like crazy but will oversteer LONG before it ever tries to roll

    What I love about all the rollover controversy is that the dang things are SUPPOSED to be top heavy like any other SUV!! it is meant to be able to go offroad and tow and do all that stuff. Yea, it can roll but that is just a result of it being an offroad capable vehicle.
     
  4. jadatis

    jadatis New Member

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    A roll cage also highens the total gravity-point of the car, wich was a possible issue for the Ford Explorer. So making it saver also gives sooner rolling over.

    The Ford/Firestone affaire had more inpact on tire-pressure advice then you would think.

    the law of having TPMS or some kind of warning for low pressure , to my opinion is made because of it. From 2014 also in Holland where I live, this has to be on new cars.

    In Europe before 2000 Normal use advice pressure was of axle loads determined by the car-maker for 3 persons and a little load.
    After 2000 Normal advice pressure is given for GAWR's and called for 4 persons and load.

    As late as 2005 American TRA swiched over to the calculation for pressure and loadcapacity to the formula that the European tyre-makers have used for decades for all kind of tires, saying it was for globaly going to the same system. But only chached for P-tires and XL/extraload/reinforced, for wich the old used american calculation lead to to much deflection in the lower pressure/loadcapacity range. Has to do with the power used in the universal formula . For calculating loadcapacity for a sertain pressure TRA used 0.5=root and for lower then 50% H/W division tires 0.65 , LT tires C-load and up 0.7.
    ETRTO used from about 1970 0.8 power . the higher the power the lower loadcapacity for the same pressure. Power 1 is linear calculation so part of maxloadpressure is part of maximum load.
    For C-load and up American TRA still uses the old calculation, wich can give similar F/F-like affaires in the future

    This inadequate calculation used and repaired by a band aid of 10 substaction of maximum load of P-tires for SUV or whatever you call it, thoug was not the main cource of the failures. But chanching the formula to my opinion is done with real reason of the experiënces with the Ford /Firestone Affaire.

    My opinion , and what I made of administrative study , is that the off-road looking tires of Firestone had large profile blocks that cover a part of the sidewall , wich makes this sidewall lesser part to flex savely.
    To get less deflection for the same load on the tire you need higher pressure.
    In fact ,of those tires a to high maximum load is given on sidewall still.
    Also goes for somewhat other reasons for low Hight widht division tires.
    So a problem that is still existing at the moment.
     
  5. cgbier

    cgbier Elite Explorer

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    All I know is that the Firestones I had on my Ranger were perfectly fine. As they were close to replacement, I opted for the recall - a free set of tires after all. The Goodyears I got in exchange were what falls out of the rear end of a male cattle. Had to use 4x when the road was wet. Otherwise, I would have had any traction.
     
  6. FR-425

    FR-425 Used to be a road here. Elite Explorer

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    My "two cents" on Gen 1 steering.

    The secret I found with getting the TTB to steer sweet on the highway (no bump steer)(no wiggle'n) is 4" drop pitman for 2" lift. 6" drop for 4" lift.

    You want the tie & drag to be dead level:

    The stock geometry is wrong; the pitman arm is to short!

    Here's mine, 2" lift 4" drop:

    However you lift/lower; If you can achieve this steering geometry you will have superb road manners; as mine does. ;)

    You'll also notice I did some "Hardware engineering" to move my sway bar disco's outside the stock brackets, getting the sway bar "influence" as close to the wheel as possible. Effectively widening the sway bar by 4".

    Major handling improvement!

    [​IMG]

    Excellent on the dirt as well.
    Also provides best leverage for the power steering.

    My "Highway Queen" at Truck Haven 1/18/2014

    [​IMG]

    4" lift NO drop! I wouldn't drive this to my own funeral!

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Kiliona

    Kiliona Active Member

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    Instead of all that that doesn't seem to take in real world scenarios, why don't manufacturers do it the autoX way of balancing the air in tires. Mark the sidewalks with chalk, drive it in a circle, adjust air pressure as needed so it isn't rolling over the sidewall or overinflated. That way they'd know for a fact those tires on that vehicle In those conditions reuquired that much air, and they'd know it for a fact. Then they could do a few tests when it's cold and Rainey then sunny and take the average and put that on the door sticker. Then the tests would actually account for things like tread pattern and tire flex and stuff, not just the "theoretical optimum air pressure" theory doesn't always match real world.
     
  8. jadatis

    jadatis New Member

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    But you also have to be carefull with the chalk test.
    Radial tires stay in a long range with the total treathwidth on the ground evenly.
    Only the length of the treath surface on the ground varies.

    If you do that chalk test yourselfes , begin at highest pressure and drop it in steps and do chalktest every time.
    then stop when the chalktest apears to be ok , so even wear of chalk over the whole width.

    If you go on reducing pressure until only the sides wear off, or begin low and high up every time, the pressure is to low , so to much deflection and by that to much bending of the rubber .

    For some tires it can also be that the chalk-test is at a sertain point good.
    But still to much deflection of the tire, and so tire-damage at the long run.
    Has to do with the stifness of the treath wich can be different for diferent tires. Then the widht stays even longer on the ground,but the sidewall bends already to much so it gets damaged.

    for that reason the chalktest is also not a good methode to use for the tire makers as you suggest.
     
  9. OffTrac

    OffTrac Elite Explorer

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    Few people replace tires on a vehicle with factory tires. The pressure ratings based on them would then be useless among different tires with different specs.
     
    Last edited: February 18, 2014
  10. Punjab

    Punjab Member

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    Sticking on topic, it seems everyone raves about the rear axle swap to disc brakes from the second gen and additionally the steering knuckle swap from later rangers for dual piston calipers and wider rotors for the front of our 1st gens.
    I know I'd love to make the swap!
     
  11. Kiliona

    Kiliona Active Member

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    I forgot to mention, along with the chalk, do temperature readings. No it's not foolproof, but to me, in a world where the surface area of every tire is different due to treat and tire wear, where the coefficient of friction of every tire is different, the springiness of the rubber and also it's rigidity, all these things will affect how the tire performs and therefore how much air pressure should be in it, and that's before you even consider road surfaces. It's just hard for me to believe a math equation could take all that into account in a real world situation, and I feel like a real world test MAY be a better indicator.

    I'm not sure what the best test would be to figure out tire pressure, but you'd think it wouldn't be impossible especially with all the money manufacturers put into testing.

    I guess I am talking about a mistake that happened way back on second gen explorers though, chances are they've gotten better at it since then.
     
  12. jadatis

    jadatis New Member

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    I dont say the chalk test is totally nonsense , but you still have to be carefull with it.

    But the maximum load of a tire is calculated with an universal formula , in wich section hight, tire width, Rimm diameter, overall diameter etc is put in.
    So if you asume the tire maker to do it right, they already taken care of all the factors you mention.
    But the calculation is a general one , in wich the stifness of treath and the other things you mention is not taken into account for.

    But thats the responcibility of the tire maker , to calculate a maximum load that gives at the reference-pressure a deflection that is save at speed and the treath stays with its width on the ground evenly.
    That this is not the case for some kind of tires is the thing that is wrong, and what to my opinion gave the problems with the Ford Explorer with Firestone tires.
     

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