Looking for some real world Suspension advice

[KJL]

I have been thinking about lifting my explorer but im not sure what to get (i know i know there are a thousand lifts and what not!)

I cant figure out what kind of lift i want to put on it, it will be a weekly (not daily) driver, i have a 2000 2wd sport that i run my 7 month old around in and go to work, the 1992 (4WD) is a project that sits in the garage. its going to be a hunting rig mostly but i also want reliability so i dont get stuck in the mountains somewhere and have to trade some hillbilly a kidney for a ride back to the valley (California).

I dont need much of a lift, maybe 5" at the most. and i like a little rougher ride, i see a lot of guys complaining of the AALs making the ride too stiff but i dont mind it i prefer it.

this is going to be a build so a small lift would be fine to start but i am not against getting bit by the "bigger is better bug" in the future...

my thought for now is to get the f-150 spring spacer in the front and custom make some shackles for the back and a 3" BL, just to get it a little higher off the ground, looking to run 32"s, i dont think i will ever go above 33-35"s.

what do you guys suggest? keep in mind i have a 7 month old son (my first!) so a budget is deff a priority (for now)...

I would like to maybe find a lift kit i could piece together over time and not have to shell out $500+ at one time cause thats not going to fly lol. shocks then springs etc...

I really like SuRrEaLNJs rig, but i have not had the time to read through his 32 FREAKIN PAGE BUILD!!!

 

[rickybobby]

I think you have it spot on, coil spacers and shackles will let you clear 32's just fine. If you want to go 33's you will need the body lift. If you have 4.10 gears already i would stick with 32's for now, those will be ok with factory gearing, but if you have 3.73's you will want to regear, so if 33's are the ultimate goal then i would get 4.56 gears and 33's now, as anything less will leave you wanting more (as far as gearing)

 

[Flip4ford]

Sounds good to me! I did the same thing-- but then I bought a 4" lift-- then a 6" just kept growing and growing

 

[Anime]

I would say your best option is to stick with 31's and the spacer/shackle lift for now, then save up for the 5.5" lift in front with a SOA in the rear, and the 4.56 gears you'll need with larger tires.

I'd skip a body lift entirely, or perhaps suggest getting new Daystar body mounts, which will restore the original body height plus some, and is a great thing to do on a project truck.

 

[KJL]

Yeah im not much for the body lifts (ive heard enough horror stories). but over all i want to get about 5" at most. the logging roads in the sierras are not that bad (went hunting 5 times this last season in the 2000 2wd sport and went everywhere i wanted to go (or was smart enough not to go lol)

i work for a ford dealership and i had my parts guy check to see if anyone still had some spacers laying around and he said that Vintage Parts had them for $80... so i told him i was going to go to the junkyard lol

ok so i got the first plan down (custom shackles and f150 spacers), what do you guys think for a front lift (the 5 inch or so)?

is there a way i can piece a lift together over time from the same company (i know camburg will sell individual parts to their kits as long as you can prove you already have the lift (if you broke a part) but that was years ago.

i dont mind paying a little extra over the span of a year or more. i cant get myself to drop a lot of money at one time, but i guess thats a good thing lol

If you have 4.10 gears already i would stick with 32's for now, those will be ok with factory gearing, but if you have 3.73's you will want to regear, so if 33's are the ultimate goal then i would get 4.56 gears and 33's now, as anything less will leave you wanting more (as far as gearing)

I have no idea what gears i have, havent checked yet and i couldnt get the info from my shop manual cause there in no door plate

 

[KJL]

Sounds good to me! I did the same thing-- but then I bought a 4" lift-- then a 6" just kept growing and growing

How did the shackle/spacer lift do for you?

I know when you put the spacers on that you have to get it aligned and i also know EVERY truck is different but how bad was yours after you put the spacers on?

 

[Maniak]

The cheapest way to get the bigger lift up front is to watch here for people selling their lift kits.

You want the RA drop brackets and the axle beam pivot brackets. You do not want "drop plates" which go between the stock driver side x member and the axle pivot on the driver side. Those are very good at punching a hole in the top of the diff.

If you wanted a softer (at least at initial travel) I would have said to get the Duff kit. You must buy the kit as they won't sell parts to the kits.

If your going to piece it together, I'd recommend the Skyjacker springs up front (they are the softest TTB/Explorer springs). We went from Duff to Skyjacker and the skyjacker are linear springs. They aren't the stiffest (actually, they are pretty soft for a TTB) but they soak up the bumps without rattling me to death.

For the rear, your best bet is a SOA. You can use the stock springs but you "might" need to have your rear drive shaft lengthened. That is still cheaper than buying a 5.5" spring pack.

Now, if your planning on driving at speed off-road then I'd recommend you get cut/turned beams up front instead of axle pivot drop brackets. You will still need RA drop brackets or extended Radius arms but you will be able to soak up the bumper better.

You can also run f-250 shock mounts up front so you can put longer shocks in and get more wheel travel up front...

As you can see, this is a slippery slope.

~Mark

 

[KJL]

The cheapest way to get the bigger lift up front is to watch here for people selling their lift kits.

You want the RA drop brackets and the axle beam pivot brackets. You do not want "drop plates" which go between the stock driver side x member and the axle pivot on the driver side. Those are very good at punching a hole in the top of the diff.

If you wanted a softer (at least at initial travel) I would have said to get the Duff kit. You must buy the kit as they won't sell parts to the kits.

If your going to piece it together, I'd recommend the Skyjacker springs up front (they are the softest TTB/Explorer springs). We went from Duff to Skyjacker and the skyjacker are linear springs. They aren't the stiffest (actually, they are pretty soft for a TTB) but they soak up the bumps without rattling me to death.

For the rear, your best bet is a SOA. You can use the stock springs but you "might" need to have your rear drive shaft lengthened. That is still cheaper than buying a 5.5" spring pack.

Now, if your planning on driving at speed off-road then I'd recommend you get cut/turned beams up front instead of axle pivot drop brackets. You will still need RA drop brackets or extended Radius arms but you will be able to soak up the bumper better.

You can also run f-250 shock mounts up front so you can put longer shocks in and get more wheel travel up front...

As you can see, this is a slippery slope.

~Mark

So besides the springs and shocks and camber boot kit (the obvious stuff) all I would need is the brackets?

I really like the idea of the SOA. 1) it's cheap 2) I don't like the idea of all that hardware hanging down so low. So that is what I was planning on doing with the rear anyways so it's nice to know I have the same idea as someone else.

No it's going to be a street driven hunting and camping truck, the slower the better. I don't EVER see myself rock crawling in it. And I don't see myself going over any rocks larger then let's say an average sized ice chest (most of the hunting roads up here are either paved or hard packed cut dirt logging roads. I've seen Mitsubishi Eclpses and the likes on some if the bumpier roads.

For the sake of knowledge, what are cut/turned beams? I read a how to on here but I can't seen to find it.

 

[Maniak]

So besides the springs and shocks and camber boot kit (the obvious stuff) all I would need is the brackets?

Yup.. Thats all you need for the front for the "LIFT". You will need a drop pitman arm or you will have OMG bad steering.

I really like the idea of the SOA. 1) it's cheap 2) I don't like the idea of all that hardware hanging down so low. So that is what I was planning on doing with the rear anyways so it's nice to know I have the same idea as someone else.

We are still SUA and yes, its annoying that I keep hitting the spring perch or spring itself. I have gotten better recently (driving style). I've been contemplating a SOA but axle wrap may be an issue since I like to rock crawl.

No it's going to be a street driven hunting and camping truck, the slower the better. I don't EVER see myself rock crawling in it. And I don't see myself going over any rocks larger then let's say an average sized ice chest (most of the hunting roads up here are either paved or hard packed cut dirt logging roads. I've seen Mitsubishi Eclpses and the likes on some if the bumpier roads.

Gotcha.. I wasn't sure how fast you were going to go on logging roads.. I thought maybe you would be doing stuff like this (This is before the cut/turned beams and with the Duff front springs).

another angle, even rougher..

For the sake of knowledge, what are cut/turned beams? I read a how to on here but I can't seen to find it.

Normally, when you lift a TTB vehicle you lower both sides of the axle beams. The outside end is lowered by using a longer spring and the inside (mount side) is lowered by using a bracket that puts the pivot point closer to the ground.

By using a cut/turned beam you are taking care of the camber issue caused by the longer springs within the axle beam itself instead of using a drop pivot point.

There are multiple ways to do the cut/turned. We are using the set from BTF out of California and they move the lower ball joint out some which changes the Camber of the tire enough to handle a 5"-6" lift.
You can see where the beam was cut and new metal welded in after it was turned in this pic.

welds on Cut and turned Dana 35 beams by maniak_az, on Flickr

The other ways to cut/turn the beams are to cut just inside the ball joints (more like taking a wedge out) and cutting/turning it closer to the mount (pivot) point.

~Mark

 

[KJL]

I really like the idea of cutting and turning but (I know every shop is different) but generally what is the cost of it? Alternatively, what would go into doing it yourself. I did a search on here and a google search but all I've found is guys asking questions about it and and (the ranger station) explaning what it is but no real explanation on what it takes to do it.

 

[Maniak]

No idea what "typical" cost is, but BTF (out of California) charges $200 with exchange and $400 outright. Shipping is extra of course

That is who we got ours from.

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312831

I've seen a few people do it themselves. The trick is building a jig to get them right AND trusting your welds. Of course, you also have to decide which way you want them cut/turned.. (ball joint, by pivot or just inside the knuckle).

~Mark

 

[KJL]

But for $200 that's a steal! I think I'll go with that setup. What parts would I need for cut/turns beams? I assumed it was just replacing the beams but seems like everyone is using different stuff. Is there a general "standard" setup?

 

[Maniak]

Using cut/turned beams means you don't need axle pivot drop brackets. You do however need all the other normal lift things.. like springs etc. I"m using skyjacker springs right now (skyjacker TTB springs)

If your using Stock Radius arms you will need RA drop brackets. If you use extended Radius arms you won't need the Ra drop brackets.

I believe BTF makes extended Radius arms but I "think" they will cost you more than the cut/turned beams..

If you go cut/turned beams I would reinforce the passenger side pivot bracket. When I needed a stock bracket I kept finding them with cracks.
You can see the extra plate I put on the side. Duff makes their lift brackets like this which is where I got the idea.

Modified stock axle pivot by maniak_az, on Flickr

~Mark

 

[KJL]

Ok let me get this straight. With cut/turned beams and extended radius arms all I'd need would be shocks and springs?

And reinforcing the stock pivot brackets

 

[Maniak]

Ok let me get this straight. With cut/turned beams and extended radius arms all I'd need would be shocks and springs?

And reinforcing the stock pivot brackets

I am assuming that you are getting the mounts with the extended Radius arms as they don't go in the stock spot.. If that is correct then what you have listed above is correct for the front part of a lift "kit"

Don't forget brake lines and the drop pitman arm.. Those don't come in the kits, but everyone really needs them..

~Mark

 

[FROADER]

I don't mean to interrupt and cause problems , but your spacers/shackles and body lift (for 33s) idea seemed to be the cheapest.

Mark's rig is very well put together and he takes it to the limit when he can, but you will be fine with your original setup idea.

 

[KJL]

No problems lol. I am going to go with the shackle/spacer lift first. But the reason I started in depth on the more modified stuff is because I wanted to figure out a long term plan for the suspension system. I know I want to run cut/turned beams and extended radius arms in the distant future. After finding out the future plans are a better way to go I'm going to 86 the body lift cause I would end up removing it once I got the modified stuff. I know it's cheaper do gain the same amount of lift with the body lift but I'd rather spend that $200 on parts to refresh worn out suspension parts in the mean time and just run the spacer/shackle lift until all the modified stuff comes it... Slowly lol

 

[KJL]

Will I still need the camber bolt kit with the BTF cut/turned beams? Sorry making a "shopping list" so I can keep all of this info in one spot without having to rifle through a bunch of posts.

 

[Maniak]

It depends... The Camber Cams which go around the balljoint are used for alignment (adjust camber, and can adjust caster some depending on how much camber adjustment you need)

If you go with Spacers to start with you will need an alignment and will use camber cams. If you then switch to cut/turned beams and springs that set the angles back to stock then you would may new camber cams as the ones you have may not adjust enough/correctly to put the camber back to normal.

~Mark

 

[tweakedlogic]

I was able to do a nice lift using f150 springs and I made my own shackle. With shocks and all I spend maybe $300. Unlike the spacer lift, you will actually gain some useful travel when you disconnect the sway bar. I actually like the handling better with my 2.5" lift and rear sway bar removed than I did with stock and aftermarket shocks.