Solved 1992 Explorer wont start once it is warm

[Fix4Dirt]

OHV is way different than SOHC however there are many vacuum lines on an OHV. I want to double check them and my intake torque specs. You OHV guys may know the answer to the question which is, what is the torque spec for the studs that go through the injector fuel rail plate before the upper intake plenum goes back on? I may not have the tight enough.
I want to get it back on the lift to check the vacuum modulator rubber hose and test with a DVOM the two internal transmission solenoids. The work days have been extremely hot. By mid day it has been so hot that one can't think. We have been shutting down the shop for the day, when the heat index gets to 100 F.

yeah, i was just stating whatbit was on my sohc, in case it happened to apply to ohv as well. that bein said, good luck!

 

[allmyEXes]

@Fix4Dirt I'm very familiar with job 1 SOHCs. @410Fortune. Coincidentally the clogged injector was the first one to be tested. Brother was touching the wires to the battery and I was operating the can of W-mart brake clean. The little tool blew apart in the middle and we both nearly got that stuff in our eyes. After that, he hid behind the hood and I figured out to tell him to power it up before I squirted the spray then have him disconnect before I quit spraying. The tool would blow apart on the good ones and the leaky one it didn't. It just kept flowing.
Yesterday I looked all over and traced every vacuum line and closely inspected the upper plenum mating joint? Nothing pinched in it. I'm poised to go on the lift with the truck when I get to the shop.
I don't know if I have a problem fuel pressure gauge or not but when the engine is cold, the gauge slowly makes its way to 33 pounds then sits steady. I have a fuel filter that I'm going to change while I'm up under it. I have to get these little details all wrapped up because soon a customer vehicle will be coming out and the lift will be used working on it. Gotta get ready for work and get out of here to get ahead of more extremely high temperatures and humidity.

 

[410Fortune]

you can update your injector cleaning tool by using some jb weld to hold things together

 

[allmyEXes]

The homemade tool was holding together well. When it would blow apart, it was the rubber end of the valve stem blowing off of the injector.

 

[allmyEXes]

The injectors fixed the main problem with the way it runs. I think the filter or pump is clogged or old. Fuel pressure is running 31 steady after warm up. The truck is on the lift now with the pan off and will be removing the valve body Monday. I made a cardboard thing to put the valve body bolts in. If I had a spare Seperator plate I would use it for that.
The lockup solenoid tested open. That confuses me a bit because I'm not getting the 3-4 shift.
Question: @410Fortune Doesn't the transmission shift into OD before the TC lockup ?
Wednesday the solenoids and AC parts will be here.
FYI, if you are ordering parts from RockAuto. Make sure that you order Friday afternoon and not wait until Monday. Saturday I got an e-mail from RA that the parts shipped. Order day makes a difference.

 

[allmyEXes]

I haven't started the old '92 since about the middle of the month. Been messing around with the transmission. Last time that I ran it, I was seeing 31 #s of fuel pressure after the gauge stabilized. I changed the filter today after getting the fluid back in it. Today fuel pressure was 9 and stabilized at 11 psi. The vehicle acted like it wanted to die then would catch back up. Fun with fuel pump Monday.

 

[allmyEXes]

I had to wait most of the day before I could open the fuel tank to get to the pump. I like to have the Shop doors open when there is gasoline in the air. I couldn't open the doors until the rain passed. At least it wasn't 95 degrees with a 107 heat index.
When I pulled the pump and then tested the sending unit, it turns out that that the sending unit works. The problem was the float had a hole in it. I found an old float in the shop and overnight I'm leak testing it. I tied a string to it and a couple of heavy washers and put it under water. In the morning I will know if it is good or bad. Picture below.

I also found the problem with the fuel pump. 3 mice of the 4 member "tag team" fell off of the treadmill and drown. I had already disposed of one before I found two more and took a picture. That explains why Thursday I could only get 11 pounds out of it.

3 weeks ago 3 out of four must have been alive because I was getting around 31 psi. It takes 4 to get over 40 pounds of pressure. For you young guys that don't understand how this works, I have provided a picture below.

Note: If you open your tank to pump the gas out of it, close it back up so nothing finds their way in, and can't get back out.

 

[Josh P]

They ate a hole in the float and drowned.

 

[allmyEXes]

Well it turns out that I'm going to have to order a new pump for a '92. Two years back I ordered one for a '97 and assumed that they were the same as Gen 1 pumps. No they are not. The power connectors and where the pick-up sock attach are different.
Question: What is the best pump cartridge for the money?
It will be a few more days before I can test drive. I'm waiting for parts again. The work on this vehicle has stretched out over a long period of time and has occupied the four post lift at times when I need it for something else.

 

[joney]

I had to wait most of the day before I could open the fuel tank to get to the pump. I like to have the Shop doors open when there is gasoline in the air. I couldn't open the doors until the rain passed. At least it wasn't 95 degrees with a 107 heat index.
When I pulled the pump and then tested the sending unit, it turns out that that the sending unit works. The problem was the float had a hole in it. I found an old float in the shop and overnight I'm leak testing it. I tied a string to it and a couple of heavy washers and put it under water. In the morning I will know if it is good or bad. Picture below.
View attachment 432492
I also found the problem with the fuel pump. 3 mice of the 4 member "tag team" fell off of the treadmill and drown. I had already disposed of one before I found two more and took a picture. That explains why Thursday I could only get 11 pounds out of it.
View attachment 432493
3 weeks ago 3 out of four must have been alive because I was getting around 31 psi. It takes 4 to get over 40 pounds of pressure. For you young guys that don't understand how this works, I have provided a picture below.
View attachment 432494
Note: If you open your tank to pump the gas out of it, close it back up so nothing finds their way in, and can't get back out.

That check wasn't in the Haynes manual...Of all the places for a mouse to go, wouldn't think the smell of gas would attract them. Good catch.

 

[Josh P]

wouldn't think the smell of gas would attract them. Good catch.

A mouse trap on wheels

 

[Turdle]

So they were drinking the fuel before it could get to the pump? Those little buggers

 

[410Fortune]

I run a bosch "blue top" pump for a 96 5.0 in my 88, I had to modify the hanger just slightly to fit it, basically cut the metal tube 1" up higher with a simple tube cutter. You can do it too, the 91-94 tank hangers are same as my 89 BII hanger the Gen II pump is just physically taller

I thought mice were smart enough not to fall into gasoline tank................maybe the cat pushed them
Now that is a new one on me!
I bet you could use them as fire starters now

So now on the forum anytime we get a "wont start when warm" thread we have to run through the possibilities.
1. Clean MAS
2. Check fuel pressure
3. check coolant temp sensor
4. check crank sensor
5. check for mice in fuel tank

 

[allmyEXes]

@410Fortune Several years ago I was deliberately opening the fuel tank, by removing the fuel pump assy to pump the fuel out of the vehicle before it would sit for a period of time. For a short time I kept the pump assy out and would take on the road with us, and tools to change the pump in the '94 if the old one failed. I had cut an access hole in the plum '94 and the white 92. Then I used an old license plate to cover the hole gluing it with RTV and holding it in place with self tapping screws. 5/16-8mm, so anyone could use standard or metric tools. A few weeks after traveling in the plum '94, I put the white pump inside the white '92. I FUed when I didn't reinstall it and didn't make an access hole cover for the 2nd. Then the mice got in the vehicle. I wont make that mistake on the 3rd one. The mice found their way into the truck and the fuel tank. I have to have an access hole to change a pump on the road (highway). Could you imagine trying to remove a fuel tank from a Explorer on the side of the Interstate with traffic passing 5 feet of you at 80 miles an hour?

 

[allmyEXes]

Brother has been helping with the to do list and there is plenty to do before the fuel pump arrives. He cut and buffed the headlights as you would if you were buffing a car. They are a bit yellow but they look good for as old as they are.

A few weeks ago when I installed the fuel pump, I had trouble with the O-ring for the pump assembly. I finally stretched it to the right size. Most recently when I took all of that apart again, I found a roll of duct tape to store the O-ring on until next week. It works for me. Also have been using the carpet cleaning machine with some Purple Power concentrate to clean the carpet and plastic parts.
ADDED: Fri 8-05-22. A new O-ring will be coming with the pump cartridge.

DUCK DUCT TAPE

 

[allmyEXes]

@joney The tank was bone dry when the mice found their way in. Back several weeks while the tank was dry I never found them while vacuuming the inside of the tank. Now I can't vacuum. Everyone listen for a minute. Never, never, never vacuum gasoline with any kind of an electric vacuum. A dry or wet vac. you can get yourself killed or worse, survive burns that make you wish that you were dead. Late today I found a big mouse nest up under the right rear passenger seat that has been folded down for % years. I found 5 more mice carcasses under it when vacuuming. I'm glad that it was just mice and not Norwegian rats that regularly come over from the farm next door. They are eating chicken feed. We feed them rat poison.
@410Fortune Thanks for the info on the pump.

 

[joney]

@joney The tank was bone dry when the mice found their way in. Back several weeks while the tank was dry I never found them while vacuuming the inside of the tank. Now I can't vacuum. Everyone listen for a minute. Never, never, never vacuum gasoline with any kind of an electric vacuum. A dry or wet vac. you can get yourself killed or worse, survive burns that make you wish that you were dead. Late today I found a big mouse nest up under the right rear passenger seat that has been folded down for % years. I found 5 more mice carcasses under it when vacuuming. I'm glad that it was just mice and not Norwegian rats that regularly come over from the farm next door. They are eating chicken feed. We feed them rat poison.
@410Fortune Thanks for the info on the pump.

Very aware of the danger, any vacuum motor has sparks internally. Add flammable vapor and.. Lots of times I see folks filling up plastic gas cans at the station. I always observe whether they set them on the concrete or other grounded surface. Some don't realize that static electricity can come from the actual gas stream, important to ground it rather than fill it inside a hatch. And dealing with gas tanks, etc., I'm quite willing to have a shop deal with the risk.

 

[allmyEXes]

I have decided after finding another mouse carcass, a large amount of dirt and debris, and mouse hair/fur in the fuel pickup screen that I really need to remove the tank. I'm not happy about this however being up on the 4 post lift as opposed to laying under the truck, standing up to do this won't be so bad. I found some instructions as to how to do this. They are not very clear. It was said that the safety/skid plate is very heavy. I just looked and it is 1/8" plate steel. I see the front bolts that hold it on but I don't see what holds the plate on the rear. I have positioned my very tall stand under the plate as a safety. I have the top stuff disconnected with exception of the vapor return line which just slips on. I'm sure being 30 years old the the plastic piece of that in the top of the tank could be brittle. I can see the filler neck and vent hose and the filler neck may not have to come out. Any tips or guidance from any of y'all that have done this before would be appreciated. In the meantime, I'm starting at the front skid plate bolts.

 

[allmyEXes]

It's taken about 2 hours to get the tank out. Almost. I have to go next door to the farm and borrow their very large channel locks to get the large filler neck rubber to come a loose from the tank. It's only been on there 30+ years. There would have been no way for me at my young age to do this down on the pavement. There is a fair amount of stuff to unfasten. The Harbor Freight super tall jack stand was necessary and the occasional help from my brother. The rubber fill neck and the smaller ~1" vent hose are all that is left to undo. I'm glad there is only 4 gallons of fuel in it.

 

[allmyEXes]

"I would rather take it out now instead of put the new pump in a dirty tank and still have to take it out later after having problems" was what I kept telling myself when I was first contemplating and second performing this task. I was sure that there was stuff in the tank which would be a problem later. I was right. A lot of loose debris and the 4th mouse carcass came out of there.

Me and Ken bro got the tank out before he had to leave the shop. We poured 5 gallons of gas out of it through the fill neck hole. I have it standing on end and all of the residual gasoline should evaporate by morning. I'm still contemplating the best way to wash it out. I had thought of K-1 kerosene but if diesel is over $5.50 a gallon the K-1 is probably $8 or $9. ExxonMobil and Shell have reported record profits from the past 3 months. They are forking us, and I guess that there is not a thing that we can do about it. What if there was a mandatory 55 MPH maximum speed limit? Would the U.S.A. use less fuel? I'm going to filter the 5 gallons and use it in my rider.

Yes that is a pair of Chevy double hump heads in the background.