Sandbox2.000 Suspension Build

[97Sandbox]

But if the brake fluid isn't fresh, any symptom like that is a good hint to flush some new fluid through it.

Good call! I have new front brake hoses to install anyway. Maybe I'll put those on and flush/bleed the system before I pull the rotors just in case.

 

[97Sandbox]

I hooked up my multimeter to the leads of each front wheel speed sensor. Each had continuity and I measured a slight (mV range) voltage fluctuation when spinning the front rotors. This makes me think the sensors are working fine. My only thought is maybe the signal is just weak and I just need to pull the tone rings back a bit -- easy enough to try.

I also replaced the front brake lines. No leaks afterwards but I could not seem to get all the bubbles out. Pumped four little bottles of DOT3 through (all I had on hand) and still had tiny bubbles coming through at the beginning of each push of the pedal. Any idea where the bubbles would be coming from?

New Belltech lowering block kit should arrive tomorrow...the project continues forward!

 

[donalds]

At this point with the bubbles I'd be gravity bleeding them the rest of the way

 

[97Sandbox]

At this point with the bubbles I'd be gravity bleeding them the rest of the way

Just crack one bleeder at a time and let it drip? Sounds better than asking my wife to pump the pedal for another 20-30 min!

I've never had this much trouble bleeding brakes before -- then again, I've never replaced a front line before. I'm guessing a lot more air can sneak into the bigger front calipers than the rears (which I have replaced the lines to and bled without issue).

 

[donalds]

Just crack one bleeder at a time and let it drip

Be sure to put some fluid in the bottle and submerge the hose in there
I use a 20oz bottle

 

[CDW6212R]

I hooked up my multimeter to the leads of each front wheel speed sensor. Each had continuity and I measured a slight (mV range) voltage fluctuation when spinning the front rotors. This makes me think the sensors are working fine. My only thought is maybe the signal is just weak and I just need to pull the tone rings back a bit -- easy enough to try.

I also replaced the front brake lines. No leaks afterwards but I could not seem to get all the bubbles out. Pumped four little bottles of DOT3 through (all I had on hand) and still had tiny bubbles coming through at the beginning of each push of the pedal. Any idea where the bubbles would be coming from?

New Belltech lowering block kit should arrive tomorrow...the project continues forward!

The ABS systems all have an ABS module which has internal passages that give more than one path for fluid(and air) to flow. So any time you open up the lines or get any air inside and near the ABS module, air may get trapped inside that module. Normal bleeding(all types) just pass fluid through the main path of the module, not through the internal passage ways controlled by the ABS and the internal solenoids.

The best answer to to be super careful and not let any air ever enter the lines. Do as you have so far, bleed it thoroughly, and then drive the vehicle carefully. If it isn't perfect, then safely stomp the brakes to force the ABS to function. That will displace some amount of fluid from the module, plus some air if it's trapped in there. Bleed it again and see if more air comes out. If air does get into the ABS module, the official method is to use a certain ABS tool to force the solenoids to function, while bleeding the brakes at the same time. Those tools are more common now, many shops and people have them.

I installed ABS into my 95 Crown Vic, the entire system. So I had a spongy pedal for a while, but not bad enough I couldn't drive the car. Delivering mail moved the air around and bleeding the brakes three times in about four months got it all out.

 

[97Sandbox]

The ABS systems all have an ABS module which has internal passages that give more than one path for fluid(and air) to flow. So any time you open up the lines or get any air inside and near the ABS module, air may get trapped inside that module. Normal bleeding(all types) just pass fluid through the main path of the module, not through the internal passage ways controlled by the ABS and the internal solenoids.

The best answer to to be super careful and not let any air ever enter the lines. Do as you have so far, bleed it thoroughly, and then drive the vehicle carefully. If it isn't perfect, then safely stomp the brakes to force the ABS to function. That will displace some amount of fluid from the module, plus some air if it's trapped in there. Bleed it again and see if more air comes out. If air does get into the ABS module, the official method is to use a certain ABS tool to force the solenoids to function, while bleeding the brakes at the same time. Those tools are more common now, many shops and people have them.

I installed ABS into my 95 Crown Vic, the entire system. So I had a spongy pedal for a while, but not bad enough I couldn't drive the car. Delivering mail moved the air around and bleeding the brakes three times in about four months got it all out.

Yeah, I was aware of the air-in-the-ABS-module concern and tried my best to let as little air in/fluid out as I could, but the left front line is so close to the ABS module, it's possible some air got in. I'll try the gravity bleed, take it for a spin and see how it is, and bleed once more if necessary. If I still can't get it, I'll just have my local shop bleed everything it when I go in for the alignment -- ABS solenoid cycling is one of the things my scan tool can't do.

 

[CDW6212R]

Do you know any golfers, who would have some wooden tees? I use those to plug the steel brake lines when I have a hose disconnected for some time. The wood usually will crush just enough to stick in the line, and not fall out.

 

[97Sandbox]

Do you know any golfers, who would have some wooden tees? I use those to plug the steel brake lines when I have a hose disconnected for some time. The wood usually will crush just enough to stick in the line, and not fall out.

I work with a few golfers -- that's a good tip for next time!

I did the line replacement in one shot like this so I didn't have to leave anything open for any period of time:

• Clamp old hose
• Disconnect old hose from caliper
• Clean caliper surface/banjo bolt and torque down new line with new crush washers
• Disconnect flare nut from hose (this is where the fluid started dripping)
  • As soon as the nut was totally out, I dropped the old line to the floor and held my left thumb over the line to stop the dripping
  • In my right hand, I grabbed the new hose and brought the threaded end to the flare nut
• As quickly as possible, tighten the flare nut into the new hose
  • Using a slightly larger open end wrench (7/16") helped me move faster
  • I finished it off with an 11mm which fit very tight

 

[donalds]

Forscan has the bleed function

If you don't have Forscan by now you should

 

[CDW6212R]

I work with a few golfers -- that's a good tip for next time!

I did the line replacement in one shot like this so I didn't have to leave anything open for any period of time:

• Clamp old hose
• Disconnect old hose from caliper
• Clean caliper surface/banjo bolt and torque down new line with new crush washers
• Disconnect flare nut from hose (this is where the fluid started dripping)
  • As soon as the nut was totally out, I dropped the old line to the floor and held my left thumb over the line to stop the dripping
  • In my right hand, I grabbed the new hose and brought the threaded end to the flare nut
• As quickly as possible, tighten the flare nut into the new hose
  • Using a slightly larger open end wrench (7/16") helped me move faster
  • I finished it off with an 11mm which fit very tight

Excellent, that is how I've done it for ages. That shouldn't allow much air at all in the lines, only the left front line is possible like that to have any air get upstream much. Check the line connections for any fluid wetness, and concentrate on bleeding that left front.

 

[97Sandbox]

After a day of not working on the Sport I came back to find brake fluid pooled around both front bleed screws:

I thought maybe there was just some crud preventing the screws from going all the way in, so I pulled each screw and cleaned. The screws both showed signs of wear:

You can kind of see the ring worn into the tapered end.

I'm wondering if new bleed screws will fix the slight leak and also stop the tiny bubbles I was seeing when bleeding earlier this week. The Dorman 12701 speed bleeders are in stock at my local AutoZone -- anyone try those before?

 

[donalds]

That don't look like a leak but just the fluid that was left in the threads wicking out

 

[97Sandbox]

The picture I shared is after I dried up all I could then came backed after a couple hours. When I first saw it after a whole day, there was a drip down the side of the caliper.

 

[donalds]

I'd replace the bleeder

 

[swshawaii]

The Dorman 12701 speed bleeders are in stock at my local AutoZone -- anyone try those before?

I've never had success with anything made by Dorman but thought I'd give their Speed Bleeders a try since they were somewhat inexpensive and locally stocked. Issue I had were the OE tips were flat and the Dorman were pointed. I was concerned the Dorman would bottom out so I took a chance and flattened the tips with a file. Sealed OK but don't believe the Dorman are as strong as the OE bleeders. If I didn't modify them I would have returned and gone with Russell's or Earl's speed bleeders. Russell's are also pointed where Earl's are a completely different design. Speed Bleeders also tend to suck air around the threads when the sealant wears off.

 

[97Sandbox]

I've never had success with anything made by Dorman but thought I'd give their Speed Bleeders a try since they were somewhat inexpensive and locally stocked. Issue I had were the OE tips were flat and the Dorman were pointed. I was concerned the Dorman would bottom out so I took a chance and flattened the tips with a file. Sealed OK but don't believe the Dorman are as strong as the OE bleeders. If I didn't modify them I would have returned and gone with Russell's or Earl's speed bleeders. Russell's are also pointed where Earl's are a completely different design. Speed Bleeders also tend to suck air around the threads when the sealant wears off.

View attachment 436173 View attachment 436171

As I understand it, the pointed tip shouldn't matter:

I bought the Dorman bleed screws anyhow. Installed them, bled both front calipers, and tightened them down. Dried everything I could and so far there's no brake fluid seepage in the past few hours.

I also pulled one hub apart to check the tone ring position -- it was definitely further in compared to my old rotors. I used a makeshift slidehammer setup to carefully pull the tone ring out, reassembled the hub, and checked for interference. The tone ring doesn't touch the sensor, but it's nice and close -- I'll do the other side tonight and the check to see if it was an air gap issue all along.

 

[97Sandbox]

Came out this morning and both bleeders we're dry!

Mounted the front wheels and went for a spin -- no more weird ABS issues! I think the tone ring adjustment did the trick.

The mild thump is still there, and I remembered some weights fell off one of the new wheels so I'm got it rebalanced and I'll see if the thump is still there next time I drive. But today I'm going to start the lowering block install! I'll be sure to take pics.

 

[97Sandbox]

U bolts are off and one center bolt has been pulled!

Time to cut down my universal center pins and get the blocks bolted to the springs.

 

[97Sandbox]

Got the blocks in without much issue other than wrestling with the u bolts. The Belltech u bolts are thicker than stock, but they still fit through the spring plates without widening the holes if you line them up just right.

I was all set to get everything wrapped up when I realized the parking brake bracket on the passenger side didn't fit now that the axle and brake cable are 2" higher than the bracket mounted to the spring plate. Easy enough to make an extended replacement out of scrap steel though.

Waiting for paint to dry now, should have the truck off the jackstands this afternoon.