$14K to $18K total rewire???

[Dennis J.A.A.]

2017 Exploder PIU - I am retired and just living off of Social (In-)Security and have little left at the end of each month. (Thank God for credit cards)
Dealership is telling me I need to replace the main harness because of the water damage that came from the windshield top seal.
OH! Farmers Insurance adjuster told me tough! I should learn to read the fine print & that they don't cover leakage.
They also said that almost all the modules were not coming up in their diagnostic and that there would "probably" be water STILL in the harness from back in the beginning of March. (in this heat???)
They also said that there is "probably" corrosion between the modules and the harness wire connection.
OK! I have time on my hands but not in the best of health but I am without a vehicle at this point!
I have the electrical book but I was told it isn't anywhere as good as the CDs that load on the laptop.
Also, just looking at the wiring diagram in the book still doesn't show me the location of the modules. I would love to get my grubby lil paws on those CDs.
So... I need help here. To start with I would more than likely have to completely take the dash apart. Anyone know how?
Does anyone know where all these modules are located? I know how to clean terminals and use an anti-oxidant compound to stop any future corrosion.
Here is the ****ty part. The vehicle still runs. However, I do have almost every warning light on which worries me and I don't feel safe with the better half in the car.
I already replaced the module between the two front seats for seat belts & airbags even though the warning is still on.
The end of this wiring harness would be the best place to start and just keep working backwards.
My problem is that I already have thousands of dollars invested in this vehicle starting with the $14K purchase, radios, emergency lighting, radar equipment. I am a volunteer certified storm spotter/chaser with SkyWarn & National Weather Service (NWS) and former EMS that assist in search and rescue. I carry chainsaws to help clear roads for emergency vehicles also. However, right now I can't save any lives being unavailable & unreliable.

 

[dvdswan]

If it were me, I would get a bunch of cans of electrical parts cleaner, some di-electric grease, and an air compressor. This is the PITA part though, go through every connector, pretty much taking the vehicle down to parade rest to get to them all and spray them clean, air dry them and then a couple dabs of di-electric grease in the connector. You may even need to go as far as clean the connections with a Q-tip.

Definitely not fun but it may save spending the 14k-18k. Assuming the vehicle was in a flood, you may need to purchase new modules though. Depending on if the water got into them.

 

[Josh P]

I wonder how much the harness costs and how much is labor? Once there's water intrusion into the wire, it will oxidize and the resistance will go up.

 

[DePolicify]

I would think that the likelihood that the entire harness is toast is unlikely. More likely that one or two crucial points, such as the BCM is the issue. Have you identified where the water was ending up? Start there. I would not be surprised if unplugging your BCM, spraying compressed air, contact cleaner, and dielectric grease to the connectors, then letting the module sit in a container of rice would fix you up. It just depends on where the water ended up.

 

[Dennis J.A.A.]

I would think that the likelihood that the entire harness is toast is unlikely. More likely that one or two crucial points, such as the BCM is the issue. Have you identified where the water was ending up? Start there. I would not be surprised if unplugging your BCM, spraying compressed air, contact cleaner, and dielectric grease to the connectors, then letting the module sit in a container of rice would fix you up. It just depends on where the water ended up

I replaced the BCM already
The water came down the center of the windshield. Poured over the screen, the am/fm radio, and the HVAC. Left 2" of water on both sides of the footrest area.
It has had plenty of time to dry out with all the hot/dry days we have seen since the beginning of March.

 

[Dennis J.A.A.]

Anyone know where I can get some C-4?
I might just sell the car as is. It was pampered up until then. Any little squeak it was taken care of from front to back.
As of a couple of days ago my health has deteriorated a lot. Maybe sell it to pay for MY cremation soon.
So many extras I put in that vehicle and none of my work got ruined. Everything still works that I put in.

 

[DePolicify]

Were the lights the same before/after the BCM was replaced? Did you reprogram the BCM already?

Never underestimate moisture. If it sits somewhere with poor airflow (most places in cars) it can sit for literal years.

 

[Dennis J.A.A.]

Were the lights the same before/after the BCM was replaced? Did you reprogram the BCM already?

Never underestimate moisture. If it sits somewhere with poor airflow (most places in cars) it can sit for literal years.

Not the BCM. My Bad I replaced the module between the two seats
"They said" the BCM was ok

 

[DePolicify]

Have you been able to plug in Forscan and read the faults? It should point you in the right direction.

 

[Dennis J.A.A.]

Have you been able to plug in Forscan and read the faults? It should point you in the right direction.

Unfortunately, I brought to the dealer on Saturday and I can't put any pressure on the left foot to even walk about the house.
So I can't pick it back up from there and when I do I'm not sure at this point when I'll be able to work on it.

 

[Steve8316]

Dealership is telling me I need to replace the main harness because of the water damage that came from the windshield top seal.

I'd find a good independent shop that has a tech who knows how to diagnose network problems. Sounds like the dealership gave it to an inexperienced tech who couldn't figure it out, and just priced you out the door.

They also said that almost all the modules were not coming up in their diagnostic...

So he didn't even put any effort into diagnosis. Restoring the networks should be easy, and among the first steps before pricing any parts or labor. How many hours are they billing you for this "diagnosis" so far? Should be 0.5hr or less, based on the lack of effort or results.

...and that there would "probably" be water STILL in the harness from back in the beginning of March.

So he didn't actually find any water - more proof that he didn't put any effort in.

(in this heat???)

Yes, water will stay inside any container for a LONG time. It only takes a pinhole to let a few drops in. But it can only exit as a vapor, and virtually none moves through a pinhole. You'd have to get it above 212°F/100C to make the vapor come back out the tiny hole it got in as a liquid. And even then, it would take a LONG time to cook out of the wiring (which is very similar to a sponge in this context).

They also said that there is "probably" corrosion between the modules and the harness wire connection.

BS Many of the terminals in my '90s pickups have Gold-plated terminals. I haven't pulled a bunch of the PIU's connectors apart to check, but I'd bet more than 3x as many are Gold on it, and 100% of the network terminals are.

...the CDs that load on the laptop.

Ford quit using CDs in 1997. They re-published the 92-96 manuals on DVD, which is what they used until 2006, when they switched to online only (AFAIK). I know because I have all those disks.

...I would more than likely have to completely take the dash apart.

More than likely NOT, since I don't trust the "diagnosis" you're basing all this on.

Does anyone know where all these modules are located?

Of course. This is mine, which should be virtually identical to yours.

I know how to...use an anti-oxidant compound to stop any future corrosion.

Don't. Ford terminals are designed to work & last when dry. If a terminal is corroded (which isn't likely), replace the terminal ONLY - don't contaminate it with anything. Least of all: dielectric grease, which is specifically engineered to PREVENT electrical connections.

...almost every warning light on which worries me...

Probably just a communication error with the cluster; maybe even internal to the cluster. I've diagnosed & repaired that symptom on other (VERY-different) vehicles; on one, it was the cluster because the truck had been struck by lightning - on the other, it was 1 ring terminal that didn't get stacked onto a ground stud at the factory (it was just tangled in the wires, and worked loose) and 1 terminal in an underhood connector that backed out & lost contact (which destroyed the engine & transmission, but that was a Land Rover, so it wasn't gonna last long anyway).

The point being: neither was a huge problem to diagnose & repair.

I already replaced the module between the two front seats for seat belts & airbags...

Why? What test did it fail? Do you still have the original module?

The end of this wiring harness would be the best place to start and just keep working backwards.

I don't understand what you mean by that.

...I already have thousands of dollars invested in this vehicle... I am a volunteer certified storm spotter/chaser with SkyWarn & National Weather Service (NWS)...for emergency vehicles...

Farmers Insurance adjuster told me tough! I should learn to read the fine print...

Does the fine print say it's covered against a tree falling on it while you're volunteering (NOT a job, so NOT using the vehicle for "work")? What if it slides off a muddy cliff or into a river at one of these volunteer events? Is it covered if you accidentally leave a door open in a blinding rainstorm and it fills with water (NOT a "leak")?

He wants you to read the fine print - I think that's EXCELLENT advice.

Once there's water intrusion into the wire, it will oxidize and the resistance will go up.

Not true at all. I frequently wash wiring harnesses when I'm restoring a truck. I'll even leave it out in the rain for months. And I've worked on vehicles (a VW/Audi in this particular case) that were being driven around with all the floor harnesses & modules underwater, pulled the floor plugs to let the water out, and told the owner to just keep driving AND remember to close the sunroof before a storm. I've also pulled floor harness sections from junkyard vehicles (including some that I've installed in my PIU) and used them with NO problems.

It has had plenty of time to dry out with all the hot/dry days...

Not unless the A/C was running on MAX/Recirc with the doors & windows closed. Then you'd see all that water dripping out the condensate drain. But it would take weeks of that for it to wick back up through the carpet (or decades if you have rubber flooring) enough to dry inside the harness & connectors.

I might just sell the car as is.

That seems like the worst move to me, financially.

 

[Dennis J.A.A.]

Whew! Now that was a lot to read but well worth while! Thank you for your time and all the effort put into that!
So ... Should I just send YOU the car? LOL
RE:
I already replaced the module between the two front seats for seat belts & airbags...

Why? What test did it fail? Do you still have the original module?

I had brought the vehicle to a small shop and he did the diagnosis and told me a lot of information was going through that module.
He said replace that and go to a dealership to have it rechecked and something may have to be reprogrammed with Ford computers, he didn't have that ability. He charged me $50.00 for the diagnosis.

 

[Steve8316]

I had brought the vehicle to a small shop and he did the diagnosis and told me a lot of information was going through that module. ...he didn't have that ability.

So, that's not the shop to take it back to. No, I wouldn't recommend bringing it to me. I could certainly diagnose it, but there have to be a couple hundred techs closer to you who also could. You just have to track a few of them down to find one who WILL work on it, in your time frame, on your budget. Don't exclude those who work on european vehicles - those things have been far-more-networked for longer than domestics, so those guys should be high on your list. Again: convincing them will be the trick, but tell them you ONLY need them for wiring harness diagnosis/repair. Not programming.

 

[Dennis J.A.A.]

So, that's not the shop to take it back to. No, I wouldn't recommend bringing it to me. I could certainly diagnose it, but there have to be a couple hundred techs closer to you who also could. You just have to track a few of them down to find one who WILL work on it, in your time frame, on your budget. Don't exclude those who work on european vehicles - those things have been far-more-networked for longer than domestics, so those guys should be high on your list. Again: convincing them will be the trick, but tell them you ONLY need them for wiring harness diagnosis/repair. Not programming.

OK Why not the programming also?

 

[Steve8316]

OK Why not the programming also?

Because they don't know how Ford programming is done, or how to do it safely, or how the software works, and their equipment doesn't even contain the software ,and probably won't connect to Ford modules, and...

Kinda like asking a chinese calligrapher to copy a book in English, versus asking him to read a book in English.

 

[DePolicify]

I agree with Steve, anyone who has used Forscan for a day is better equipped than just about any "all-service" mechanic shop. You can do it all yourself if you have a laptop.

 

[Dennis J.A.A.]

I agree with Steve, anyone who has used Forscan for a day is better equipped than just about any "all-service" mechanic shop. You can do it all yourself if you have a laptop.

But Forscan can not do what the Ford computers can do is what I have been told

 

[Steve8316]

But Forscan can not do what the Ford computers can do...

It can't do ALL those things. But it can do MANY of those things. And the things it won't do - yours probably doesn't need. Yours isn't malfunctioning because of module programming - it's malfunctioning because there's a mechanical interruption in a few of the module communication circuits. If you fix those, you probably won't even need ForScan.

 

[DePolicify]

The biggest benefit of Forscan will be that there will probably be communication fault codes assigned to the problematic modules, so it will be easier to know where to start. For an issue as described I believe Forscan is all you would need.

 

[Jeep driver]

Dealerships are not good at Diagnostics, they just replace stuff until it is fixed, or until you go away.