1997 MM 5.0 c-n-p conv. *IT RUNS! 1st CL drive Problem with Overdrive* | Page 26 | Ford Explorer Forums

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1997 MM 5.0 c-n-p conv. *IT RUNS! 1st CL drive Problem with Overdrive*

The FPR should add a solid 7psi or so. If the goal is 35psi as posted often, then 42psi is the least it should be at WOT.

Mine was sometimes 35psi with the vacuum line off, testing it at idle, other times it pushed 36psi or a hair more. That's when I decided to do the pump, my testing was seemingly showing lower pressures each time, over about five days. So I think my old Bosch pump was slowly weakening, the new one is just more stable, though it's still running at about 32/33psi while idling. Vacuum line off showed 40psi, so I accepted that as normal then with the new pump.
 



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36-42 lbs is where it should run, return style fuel
They can run with 30-32 psi pressure but it will be lean when demand is higher

That new pump should have no issue hitting 36 psi with a prime. Until you get over 31 psi it’s going to be lean is my guess.

Does your oil smell of gas? Wondering if you have an injector stuck open
 






Hopefully I don't have a brand-new reman Bosch injector stuck open. It doesn't run like that.
My Bosch wideband O2 sensor for the AEM AFR gauge is installed in the driver's side exhaust pipe about 20 to 24" from the exhaust manifold.
I would like to think that it is downstream enough to be functioning correctly. I don't have any exhaust leaks in the driver's side part of the
system, so I feal like all is good there. I've just finished breakfast and told my wife all about it. She looks at me like, yeah, I know what your
talking about. Not.
I'll be going to lease the fp gauge tool to double check fuel pressure after hooking up and putting some smoke to check for vacuum leaks
then go from there. I'll know a lot more in 2 hours. I have a little welding job to squeeze in during this.
 






I’m bulldozing snow this am
Then in the shop for the next 7-10 days
Eddie needs his truck and I’ve cleared my schedule
Keep us posted!!
 






We look forward to your updates. Forward progress is good. I feel like my one-wheel wonder is stuck in a muddy rut for the moment.
Is that a good analogy?
 






NO TESTING TODAY
Autozone wouldn't lone the $57.99 + tax fuel pressure test gauge, they had a whole kit that they would for $150- plus. Same with Advance
and O'reillys. I have one accessible tomorrow.
Last few times ago I heard a loud pop inside of the smoke machine. After that it didn't work so well. Today it would heat but the smoke
wouldn't come out of the port/hose.
smoke machine 01.jpg

smoke machine 02.jpg

smoke machine 03.jpg
 






Fix it Felix!
 






Harbor freight fuel pressure gauge kit is like $35 to own it forever

The oreillys kit I “loaned” last time was like $250+ and I get it home and the friggin adapter for the schrader was broken… the whole fuel tester setup was looking brand new but somebody had managed to already break that part. So I went back to harbor freight and got another $35 deal they last me about 5 seasons before the o rings dry up
 






I had the same experience as @410Fortune: both my local O'Reilly and AutoZone loaner tools were damaged and unusable. Picked up the HFT knockoff and it's worked beautifully on multiple vehicles.
 






Harbor freight tool quality has gone up slightly, and the price is reasonable.
 






Monday after the testing tool problem, I removed the right-side exhaust manifold to get it a loose from the downpipe that was stuck to.
I decided to put a straight edge across the manifold surface that had soot marks indicating that the manifold was still leaking. The manifold
was arced over an eighth of an inch. While was on the phone with a truck mechanic friend about borrowing his MATCO fuel pressure test
kit, I asked him if there was a machine shop that might have a large belt sander to surface the right side formerly Mustang II exhaust
manifold. His shop and the machine shop were both the same direction so by the time that I got back from the trip to drop of the manifold
and borrow the test kit, I had driven over 60 miles. Then a holiday was upon us. I waited and waited for the machine shop to call and by
Tuesday the 7th, I decided to call them. They said it was ready. I still wonder how many days it had been sitting, ready. So the 8th of
January made the trip again this time to pick up the manifold and return the test kit.
97mm m2 ex man 03.jpg

Thursday the 9th, I went north 18 miles to the next small town up from us to an exhaust shop. The guy looked like he has been doing exhaust work since the late 1960s. He made me a new rh downpipe out of 2" pipe.
97mm m2 new downpipe.jpg

The same afternoon after I got back from that trip, I went south to the big city to Lowe's. I needed some lamp hardware to fix the smoke
machine I believe the lamp hardware will work as well as any.
(pic of lamp hardware) (I haven't made a pic or fixed the smoke machine quite yet).
Sometime in between all of that, I replaced the Chinese fuel pump cartridge with a new Bosch fp cartridge. I also had the time to check the
fuel pressure with the Marshall fuel pressure gauge and with the Matco. Both are reading exactly 40.5 max and are bleeding down after the pump shuts off. I'm definitely losing fuel pressure. I already had the 4 rh spark plugs out and they were all oily, sooty looking. Before I
quit for the day I removed the lh set of plugs. #7 looks washed compared to the other 7.
bosch fuel pump.jpg

There must be an injector sticking open. I'm taking the upper plenum off for the third time.
97mm plenum coming off again 1-16-25.jpg

97mm remove uppeer plenum1-16-25.jpg

I've got my trusty injector cleaner tool near ready. I checked all 4 driver's side injectors. After spraying cleaner, none are sticking open and my fuel pressure seems to be holding. It must have been a piece of trash in the #7 injector.
97mm injector cleaner.jpg

I have it running now with no dribbling injector. It starts and runs reliable, but the AFR gauge quickly pegs to the lean side. This is a 4.6 Crown Vic pcm that I'm using to run the 5.0. I have been communicating with a Master Ford Tuner and he says the reason that it runs the way that it does is because the modular engines run leaner than the 5.0s do in cold, Open Loop mode, so some adjustments have to be made in the related tuning tables to fix this issue. For two years, I have been studying up on how to do the tuning, what tools do I need, hardware, software. All of the tools are purchased and at the point of adding the Moates QH device to the J-3 port of the pcm, route the Moates cable through the dash behind the glove box, attach the cable to the laptop. Turn on the laptop, start the tunerPro RT software and start the engine up. Then if all of this stuff is working correctly, I should see Real Time feedback from the different sensors etc including having the Wide band O2 sensor reading its info on the TunerPro dashboard screen (image) on the laptop.
This coming week, I will be at home during the "2025 freeze in". My job at home will to be keeping the home warm and the water running.
The cost of the extra water is a lot less than fixing frozen busted pipes. Also, during this time, I will get all of the adjustments made to the bin file, the tune, for the 5.0. I'm ready to be back in "Mo the 5.0" Mercury Mountaineer.
 






Wow!!!

It’s all coming together!! Nicely done
 






Yeah, I'll be bald after not too much longer. I just spent a couple of hours trying to figure out something tuning and even going back and forth with the tuner about very basic stuff to him. I told him that I know it is painful for him helping me and watching me struggle, but not near as painful
for him as me. I successfully (in the TunerPro software) turned up the OL cod start up fuel. I have sent the file to my tuning laptop and have to take all of the equipment and table to the shop to flash the bin file into my loose pcm that I forgot to bring home with me last night. I'll know more later as it has to do with how it is running cold in OL. So, I think that I just did the first adjustments that I did have planned for next week.
 






This morning I configured TunerPro RT on the laptop and it appears that everything is in ready to work order. It will be a week before I can get everything hooked up and squared away in the vehicle itself, but at least I won't be fumbling around with this part. The software wouldn't show the "dashboard" until the 3rd of 3 files was loaded. I think it's ready. RT stands for "Real Time".
TunerPro RT dashboard.JPG

Now to decode the acronyms.
 












No problem! Just need a phd to understand half of that and we will be good!
 






Yeah, on the Phd. I've been doing a little reading about the tuning part of it all and it is a lot to take in.
I finally was able to do a "Real Time" test run. This was done with the engine idling. I appear to not be coming out of open loop. The CHT
sensor in the back of the cylinder head is not getting warm enough and under responding. The temp needs to be 180F to switch into closed loop.
I'm just getting to know my way around TunerPro RT. I was trying to customize the dashboard a bit, see the white square? Everytime time
that I try to make a change to the dashboard, the TP RT program locks up. I have to do a hard reboot to the laptop in order to close the program.
tunerpro rt dashboard 02.JPG

I still have a couple of mechanical issues that I'm working on. The rh exhaust manifold is not tight to the cylinder head. I'm hoping that a 1/4" thick manifold spacer will move the manifold out enough to get it off of the bellhousing. The spacer is made from an old header flange.
97mm ex man spacer.jpg

The dipstick tube was leaking down at the block. It appears to have been leaking for a bit and the Explorer dipstick tube didn't fit the 96
F150 manifold well either. I made a new tube out of 3/8" nickel/copper tubing. Good stuff. I used the Vevor flaring tool kit to put an end on
it that would keep it from going down into the block too far.
97 mm dipstick tube end.jpg

I'm sure that there will be more to come.
 






Nice!!!! Make a dipstick
What a great flare tool

I’m sure that spacer will work otherwise you will have to get a thicker one
 






I have been working out drivability issues as I have been getting it running again. A number of important factors are in play, so narrowing each problem down to what exactly, is taking some time and a lot of thought. 1st, I've done a major modification, including wiring and the physical mechanical part. 2nd, a pcm from another size Ford engine is being used and tuning files and associated equipment too. And 3rd, the fact that the Mountaineer initially broke down 5 years ago and an issue may have created itself from sitting (deterioration).
I now have it running a lot better than when I first got it running. My chief complaint with the Holley Terminator X system is it would post fault codes related to ignition and only tell you if it was right bank or left. I read the Ford pcm trouble codes and it told me that specifically that I had misfires occurring on the 4th and 7th cylinders exactly. I swapped a pair of brand-new Ford 2020 F-250 "Godzilla" coils around on each side and was able to get the engine to fire on all cylinders. When that happened, everything got a lot better. And thanks, FoMoCo for designing the pcm and software such that it specifically states which cylinder is having a problem. I also wonder if the Holley system could tell if there was an injector issue going on?
So now I'm able to get it to swap over to Closed Loop, CL. Also, the lean condition went away and the stinky smell. Here is a freeze frame snip of the laptop dashboard while the truck is running down the street at residential speed. I have a good 1-2-3 shifts going on but when it tries to go into overdrive, it clunks in an out and then I will let off of the throttle. Ok, so which of the three types of things could it be? Mods? Tuning? Or mechanical deterioration? In the snip I'm accelerating. You can see that it has switched a little rich. When you let off of the throttle, it goes lean for a very short time. Then it settles down to a good AFR mix. The thermostat may be a little low. This 5.0 should have a 192F.
tunerpro rt 2-08 db.jpg

As I'm chasing down the OD issue, I have looked at the illustration of the transmission connectors that I did re-pin and I see that the torque converter and the two shift solenoids are wired through here. I need to compare to the '97 connector picture. All of the transmission wires that I added and re-pinned up to the 1998.5. DTRS are not at all related to that, just switch positions, but they were upgraded too. I also found an issue in the tune. It is set for VSS and I changed it to OSS which is what I have. A gear driven sensor off of the transmission output shaft. Monday I will upload the adjusted tune file to the pcm and go from There. In the meantime, today I will read everything available online about 4R70Ws because I have 3, AODs, because I have 2 and 4R75Ws, because I want one to go behind a 444 pushrod engine.
I have looked back at my books and back in this thread. Back at post #261, a year ago I was working on this part of the wiring. Jamie was in there with me during this time.
ADDED: I've tested the wiring multiple times and I'm sure that it is right.
Below is the C-111 transmission connector picture.
99CV C-111 con.jpg

If anyone here has TunerPro RT and wants the bin, xdf and adx files to be able to playback xdl running and driving files, DM me and I can e-mail the file to you or tell you online where to go get them.
 



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I put the wideband in the x pipe and now the Holley is being tuned to monitor both banks

Something to consider

Tuner agreed it’s a good idea
I have a few friends who suggested this and examples of it working for others so…

Last time bank 1 melted a piston and the Holley had no idea

IMG_4287.jpeg


IMG_4290.jpeg


IMG_4295.jpeg
 






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