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Rob_I

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My thought was more about the hot oil. I'm quite sure I am way over engineering it as I usually do. And if the PTU gets to near 500 I'd think we'd be looking at an explosion. When I was driving and looking at the Trans and PTU Temps, they were sub 200.
 


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ecoboost_xsport

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Yeah, I think you're overthinking it with the teflon tape. You will be 100% just fine. I use this stuff:
oh-9M96UGcmEhWA?width=660&height=660&cropmode=none.jpg


...and never have had issues. I like it better and the temp rating on it is just fine for what you're doing. But standard teflon tape will work fine as well...
 




Volksjager

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Yeah, just Google Ford PTU stuff and you'll get yourself sick. Ford won't typically don't it either as they will just remove and replace the PTU.

The problem really lies in, IMHO, the low amount of fluid inside of it. It takes alot of abuse and should really have more. You may be just fine, even at your high mileage, but it's hit or miss with these things. My gut instinct is telling me that it's very dependent on how you drive. I've got no science or data to back this theory, but my hunch is that when that oil exceeds a certain temperature, it begins to lose some of it's properties and that's the downward spiral...the weakest link inside that case is the idler gear bearing, hence why Ford added a cooler to the side where that bearing sits. It's helped some but once that oil goes bad, things go into a domino effect. And if you drive it hard, this is what likey accelerates the process. That PTU is just basically a gearbox directly connected to the transmission. It is always spinning when driving, regardless of how much power is being transferred to the rear wheels. It's the RDU that makes the adjustments as it is the component that has the clutch packs.

That's why I've always felt they need to add more capacity to it or get a legitimate oil cooler/heat exchanger on it.

So, short answer. Frequent oil changes will mitigate many of the failures, regardless of what a mechanic shop says...

I stripped mine so I’m screwed until it blows. I was able to get a new line in so I added about 3-4 oz of fluid.
 




Rob_I

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I'm sure you've tried but there are a LOT of stripped "something" extraction tools. I know there is zero room to work but you may be able to find a stubby version. I have ones for external hex bolts in tight spaces, but not internal in tight spaces. Thankfully haven't had the need. Yet.
 




Rob_I

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Hmm...I was cruising PIU Workshop Manual and came across this little nugget. Has anyone ever seen the "PTU Oil Life Monitor" or done a PTU Oil Life Monitor Reset?

Copy and paste:

SECTION 308-07A: Four Wheel Drive (4WD) Systems
2014 Police Interceptor - Utility Workshop Manual
GENERAL PROCEDURES
Procedure revision date: 08/09/2013​


Power Transfer Unit (PTU) Oil Life Monitor Reset

NOTE:
To reset the PTU oil life monitor after the "Change AWD Power Transfer Unit Lube" message is set and the fluid has been changed, use the following procedure:

  1. With the vehicle in Park, switch the ignition from the off position to the on position (the engine speed and vehicle speed must be 0 to perform the reset procedure).
  2. Within 10 seconds of the ignition in the on position, fully apply and completely release the brake pedal 4 times within 10 seconds.
  3. Within 10 seconds of applying the brake pedal 4 times, push the accelerator pedal to WOT and completely release 4 times within 10 seconds.
  4. Within 10 seconds of pressing the accelerator pedal 4 times, press and hold both the brake pedal and the accelerator pedal to WOT . After pressing both the brake and accelerator pedals for 5 seconds, a message in the information center displays, " AWD Power Transfer Unit Lube Set to New".
 




peterk9

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I don't know about the PIU but the retail Explorer Manual shows this;
Axle and PTU maintenance: The Power
Transfer Unit (PTU) and rear axle (four
wheel drive only) in your vehicle does not
require any normal scheduled
maintenance. Vehicles are electronically
monitored and notify the driver required
service by displaying a message in the
information display.


Peter
 




Rob_I

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Yeah it'll show that message AFTER the PTU has suffered irreparable damage due to overtemp 😂
 




DHG2496

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Yeah it'll show that message AFTER the PTU has suffered irreparable damage due to overtemp 😂
And Ford’s response. Wow. That’s life time fluid in there, oh well that will be $1400
 




DHG2496

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Not happy. Took an hour drive yesterday. Maybe 30 miles. Looked this morning and the bottom front of the PTU is wet with fresh gear oil along the bottom, bottom right bolt and slightly up the side of the PTU case facing the motor. I don't believe it is coming from the front plastic seal since it seems to be relatively dry. I confirmed it was gear oil and not engine oil by smell. Before it was too little to detect but now there is more quantity, I can get a good sniff. :mad:

So...what is a good part number of a new PTU that will fit my '13? Suggested retailer? Do you think my regular mechanic will be able to go this or should I go to the stealership?
Did you have any luck figuring out where your fluid is coming from after the fill? I got to do a little more driving since I did mine and I'm still seeing some fluid in the same spot along that bottom corner. It doesn't look like it's coming out around the plastic axel seal or from the drain plug, or the vent, so I'm at a little bit of a loss on where it's coming from, but leaving a nickel-quarter size drop on the ground after a drive, then nothing if I let it sit, so only seems to be when it gets warmed up.

I cleaned my PTU up pretty good so maybe I'll take it for a longer drive and see if either more comes out or leaves a trail once a little more gets on the outside. Anyone know if the side cover seal tends to leak? that looks super tight, but about the only other place that I think it could come from without leaving a trail.
 




Rob_I

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GHG2496 - That describes almost exactly my situation! No I haven't located the source of the leak. Now I'm glad I'm not the only one who is seeing this. I mean, royally sucks for us, but good for the next guy maybe.

My thinking is that the gray factory rtv like stuff that seals the big front cover has failed in some spot between the PTU and the engine. In that 1/2" wide space where no mirror can go. But it'd be a good excuse to use my fiber inspection scope with a 90 mirror.
 




DHG2496

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GHG2496 - That describes almost exactly my situation! No I haven't located the source of the leak. Now I'm glad I'm not the only one who is seeing this. I mean, royally sucks for us, but good for the next guy maybe.

My thinking is that the gray factory rtv like stuff that seals the big front cover has failed in some spot between the PTU and the engine. In that 1/2" wide space where no mirror can go. But it'd be a good excuse to use my fiber inspection scope with a 90 mirror.
I agree nice to talk with someone having the same issue just to make sure I’m not crazy and blind. That gray RTV is what I was thinking too. If it is and you catch the issue before the PTU grenades itself at least it would be just labor if you could pull it out and reseal it vs buying another one. Just a shame it’s such a pain to get at or to pull out and do a full inspection. I’m tempted to take it to a shop or even the dealer( but I assume they will just say replace it.). I just hate seeing a new drop of oil on my drive every time I take it out and want to put an end to it.
 




Rob_I

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Impending doom is why I opted to buy a new one vs bandaiding mine. With winter approaching here in New Hampshire, I need a 100% vehicle. My plan is to very carefully bench inspect the PTU that comes out. With the expert advice of ecoboost_xsport, hopefully I'll be able to determine if this PTU was on the verge of detonation or just leaky. But with so little fluid in the PTU to begin with, make sure you add some to keep up with the loss. Granted you have no idea how much is in there but I'd add some, not a lot, but some.
 




DHG2496

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Impending doom is why I opted to buy a new one vs bandaiding mine. With winter approaching here in New Hampshire, I need a 100% vehicle. My plan is to very carefully bench inspect the PTU that comes out. With the expert advice of ecoboost_xsport, hopefully I'll be able to determine if this PTU was on the verge of detonation or just leaky. But with so little fluid in the PTU to begin with, make sure you add some to keep up with the loss. Granted you have no idea how much is in there but I'd add some, not a lot, but some.
I feel i'm following the path of impending doom here! :mad:

I got the PIU out and did some highway miles and cam back drove up on some ramps, wiped everything down, there was already a drip there, but just laid under it for a minute with a light on it. sure enough a small drip started to run down the cover seam on that front side facing the motor. Can't see anything beyond that first inch or so, but pretty sure I kind of know where it's coming from (not the drain like I guessed) and exactly the same spot we were discussing @Rob_I a nice light gray streak. Also keep in mind that I just filled this and have done 20 miles since changing fluid so tells you how much dirty stuff was left in there.
img_1960-1.jpg
 




Rob_I

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Welcome to the mysterious PTU leak club!

Fingers crossed Ford will ship me my new PTU by November 😐
 




Rob_I

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Sorry for the delay in reporting for those who have been following this thread. I did FINALLY get the PTU in hand, in the hands of my mechanic and in the vehicle. He said in no uncertain terms that if anyone ever comes in with one of these needing replacement besides me, he's probably going to turn them away. Just an irritating and unnecessarily complicated job. It was uneventful, just expensive. Coming in at around $1100 for labor and some misc parts.

Also as referenced in my post here:


I installed the 'new' PTU design DG1Z7251F vs my original DB5Z7251G.

About 1000 miles post-install and no instant catastrophic failure, so that's a huge plus. Fingers crossed.

Huge thank you to ecoboost_xsport for his amazing contribution to this endeavor.
 




ecoboost_xsport

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Sorry for the delay in reporting for those who have been following this thread. I did FINALLY get the PTU in hand, in the hands of my mechanic and in the vehicle. He said in no uncertain terms that if anyone ever comes in with one of these needing replacement besides me, he's probably going to turn them away. Just an irritating and unnecessarily complicated job. It was uneventful, just expensive. Coming in at around $1100 for labor and some misc parts.

Also as referenced in my post here:


I installed the 'new' PTU design DG1Z7251F vs my original DB5Z7251G.

About 1000 miles post-install and no instant catastrophic failure, so that's a huge plus. Fingers crossed.

Huge thank you to ecoboost_xsport for his amazing contribution to this endeavor.
Credit goes to you, my friend. I may have helped "cheerlead" but you are the one who took the plunge, lol. Really glad it's working out and very likely an improvement.
 




DHG2496

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Sorry for the delay in reporting for those who have been following this thread. I did FINALLY get the PTU in hand, in the hands of my mechanic and in the vehicle. He said in no uncertain terms that if anyone ever comes in with one of these needing replacement besides me, he's probably going to turn them away. Just an irritating and unnecessarily complicated job. It was uneventful, just expensive. Coming in at around $1100 for labor and some misc parts.

Also as referenced in my post here:


I installed the 'new' PTU design DG1Z7251F vs my original DB5Z7251G.

About 1000 miles post-install and no instant catastrophic failure, so that's a huge plus. Fingers crossed.

Huge thank you to ecoboost_xsport for his amazing contribution to this endeavor.
@Rob_I and @ecoboost_xsport im dusting off this thread as it looks like I’m finally doing the same and ordering the the same new PTU “F” revision. Ford dealer just quoted about $2200 for parts and labor. But looking at the sponsors and other Ford parts sites it looks like they are about $300-$400 more for the just the PTU alone. So I’m checking with a couple local places on installs if I can get a new unit online.

@ecoboost_xsport do you pull/replace your own PTU while you’re doing all your experiments and modifications with them? And if so how bad is the job? I know you’ve changed a few things with your exhaust that probably makes this easier on yours too. I can probably borrow a lift and drop the exhaust but if I have to drop the cats I’m just a little afraid of snapping some bolts or running into other issues that requiring more than I have tools or time to do,so just wondering what level of bad this will be. Just hearing what Rob’s shop said about the job makes me think it’s worth having a dealer or shop do the install.
 




ecoboost_xsport

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@Rob_I and @ecoboost_xsport im dusting off this thread as it looks like I’m finally doing the same and ordering the the same new PTU “F” revision. Ford dealer just quoted about $2200 for parts and labor. But looking at the sponsors and other Ford parts sites it looks like they are about $300-$400 more for the just the PTU alone. So I’m checking with a couple local places on installs if I can get a new unit online.

@ecoboost_xsport do you pull/replace your own PTU while you’re doing all your experiments and modifications with them? And if so how bad is the job? I know you’ve changed a few things with your exhaust that probably makes this easier on yours too. I can probably borrow a lift and drop the exhaust but if I have to drop the cats I’m just a little afraid of snapping some bolts or running into other issues that requiring more than I have tools or time to do,so just wondering what level of bad this will be. Just hearing what Rob’s shop said about the job makes me think it’s worth having a dealer or shop do the install.

Well, tbh, I haven't done anything with the existing, installed PTU other than the vent extension modification and fluid change. The experiments I've done are on a unit I bought brand new and on the bench. I've had WPC treatment done to all the gears and will send the other parts off to get cryo treated. I am waiting to install it at the same time as my forged motor. That being said, my 2015 came stock with the cooler, so it already had that part. The one I bought was from a 2019 so it has all the latest updates Ford implemented in 2016 to the PTU.

@Rob_I did his installation so it would be him that can give you an even better idea about the actual work required.
 




Rob_I

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@Rob_I and @ecoboost_xsport im dusting off this thread as it looks like I’m finally doing the same and ordering the the same new PTU “F” revision. Ford dealer just quoted about $2200 for parts and labor

Did the dealership or any of the other parts people give you a hard time not wanting the correct part?

Honestly, $2200 doesn't sound totally absurd, but that's from a stealership so the got-you-over-a-barrel markup is expected.

If you do go to an independent shop, MAKE SURE they've done one or three before. It's not just a normal transfer case. There is literally zero room to work so they have to know what they are doing and there are 20 ways to F it up.
 


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DHG2496

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Did the dealership or any of the other parts people give you a hard time not wanting the correct part?

Honestly, $2200 doesn't sound totally absurd, but that's from a stealership so the got-you-over-a-barrel markup is expected.

If you do go to an independent shop, MAKE SURE they've done one or three before. It's not just a normal transfer case. There is literally zero room to work so they have to know what they are doing and there are 20 ways to F it up.
Thanks @Rob_I ill double check but I’m pretty sure the quote had the latest revision so maybe they finally updated the documentation that it’s compatible and recommended.

yeah not surprised by the markup at the dealer but your caution about someone that has done one is what I’m concerned about too and chasing down the right person now. I have a small town garage that focuses on trnamission repair in mind and they also service the local cop cars so I just need to see if they are up to it. If not I’ll probably go through the dealership. I’m not sure how offended they’ll be I I bring in my own cheaper part from an online reseller but that could be a route too and bring the cost down a bit.
 




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