'97 Mountaineer pulley failure related questions

[429CJ-3X2]

My son was driving his '97 Mountaineer 5.0 today when the lower idler pulley failed - the grooved one below the tensioner. It's been chirping for a long time, but seemed to lessen as the engine warmed up and I hadn't figured out which pulley was making the noise. I know now! The outer part of the pulley and the bearing have separated.

Question #1, someone who stopped to help thought maybe the water pump had locked up, but it spins freely by hand with the belt off. It does make a bit of a rubber on metal squawk just as it slows to a stop, but is otherwise quiet. Is this cause for concern?

Question #2, The a/c system has a huge leak somewhere and therefore doesn't work. The serpentine belt survived the idler pulley failure, but I'm going to replace it. Would it be wise to replace the belt with the shorter one that eliminates the a/c compressor?

 

[BTR]

Question #1 - No.

Question #2 - Yes.

 

[allmyEXes]

I just removed enough of my '97MM 5.0 accessories to get down to where that lower grooved idler pulley is located. my pulley is about 3 squeaks from going out. I purchased a new one when I was getting an 865K6 belt to bypass the AC. The application is 1991 Cadillac Seville. Rockauto Dayco 5060865DR. I just found that particular belt also fits a 1991 Explorer with Air-conditioning. Same belt.

 

[429CJ-3X2]

This, plus the bolt is what I have. The rest is gone or welded to the boss the bolt goes into. The surface of the mounting boss is ok. The rest of this bearing is around the back side of the boss. I don't think it will be a problem. The cup washer in the center of the photo kept the pulley from coming off, so the bearing moved back toward the engine.
Should there be a washer behind the bearing like the smooth idler pulley has? I went to the salvage yard to take one off to see, and to see what that mounting boss should look like, but they only had 4 2nd Gen Explorers - all V6s, and nothing else had a similar pulley except a 16 valve 4 cyl in a B2300 pickup. That one did not have a washer, just the nylon insert that centers the bolt. I bought that pulley just to get the outside cup washer, insert, and bolt, none of which come with a new pulley.
I have the new pulley and have ordered a new belt to bypass the a/c. For the time being, I'll put the old belt back on and put the shorter one on later.

 

[CDW6212R]

Sorry to see that bearing let go. There is only one big washer for those pulleys, and the one you have looks bent(concave) to me. I hope your accessory bracket is okay also.

I like to replace all of those pulleys and the tensioner when they get over 100k miles. I've read that many of the pulleys don't come with enough grease in them, mass production leaving them greased like a fast food place adding ketchup etc, a dab or so. Evidently it's not a big deal to inject some grease into any bearing which has the hard plastic grease covers on them, with a pin injector adapter for a grease gun etc.

 

[429CJ-3X2]

That washer is supposed to be concave, but it's also bent from the bearing failure. Only the center part makes contact with the front of the bearing. That's an idler pulley, so no accessory bracket involved.

 

[1998Exp]

Sorry to see that bearing let go. There is only one big washer for those pulleys, and the one you have looks bent(concave) to me. I hope your accessory bracket is okay also.

I like to replace all of those pulleys and the tensioner when they get over 100k miles. I've read that many of the pulleys don't come with enough grease in them, mass production leaving them greased like a fast food place adding ketchup etc, a dab or so. Evidently it's not a big deal to inject some grease into any bearing which has the hard plastic grease covers on them, with a pin injector adapter for a grease gun etc.

On a related subject: I recently replaced the tensioner on my Vic (exactly the same as on the Explorer) because at 100k the spring was shot. The bearing in the brand new, Motorcraft-branded tensioner was very poor quality, noisy and wobbling, while the original one was still perfect. Transferred the old pulley with its bearing to the new tensioner. Don't know who ,makes those things for Motorcraft, but they are definitely not what they used to be.

 

[Islandguyhere]

My son was driving his '97 Mountaineer 5.0 today when the lower idler pulley failed - the grooved one below the tensioner. It's been chirping for a long time, but seemed to lessen as the engine warmed up and I hadn't figured out which pulley was making the noise. I know now! The outer part of the pulley and the bearing have separated.

Question #1, someone who stopped to help thought maybe the water pump had locked up, but it spins freely by hand with the belt off. It does make a bit of a rubber on metal squawk just as it slows to a stop, but is otherwise quiet. Is this cause for concern?

Question #2, The a/c system has a huge leak somewhere and therefore doesn't work. The serpentine belt survived the idler pulley failure, but I'm going to replace it. Would it be wise to replace the belt with the shorter one that eliminates the a/c compressor?

I have 97 Mountaineer among many. I know all the ins and outs over the years.

Water pump is probably fine. Tho if original and tour concerned might as well replace if your going to do the pulls anyways.

As far as the A/C I wouldn't just skip the pully with smaller belt. Go to any parts shop. They should have bypass pullys in stock. $40+/-. Take the A/C off. Put the bypass pully on. It's a simple thing to do. Samevsize belt works fine then. (Be careful fluid is under pressure will go flying everywhere if you simply cut the hoses). GL

 

[CDW6212R]

That washer is supposed to be concave, but it's also bent from the bearing failure. Only the center part makes contact with the front of the bearing. That's an idler pulley, so no accessory bracket involved.

I mean the large right accessory bracket, aluminum, the alternator, tensioner and pulley mount to it. That you don't want damaged, those are great but now they are getting more rare. I have one spare pair to put into my Lincoln, I wish I'd grabbed a few more.

 

[429CJ-3X2]

Got it back together only to find the radiator leaks. Seems to be in the front of the tank on the passenger side right near the top. It's had a coolant leak for a long time, but I couldn't find it. The crack might have gotten bigger when it overheated after the bearing failure.

I've wondered before why those cup washers (I think that's the correct term) are used on the idler pulleys. They aren't absolutely necessary as the bolt head is the same size as the exposed steel part of the bearing, which is what the washer contacts. After seeing the aftermath of this failure, I think their purpose is exactly what this one did - limit the damage when the bearing fails. It kept the ball bearings and other pieces from going forward into the fan, radiator, etc, and kept the pulley from flying off the bolt.

 

[allmyEXes]

@429CJ-3X2 Here is a list of other vehicles that you can get the grooved idler off of at a junkyard.

CADILLAC	CTS	2004-2007
CADILLAC	ESCALADE	1999-2013
CHEVROLET	ASTRO	1998-2005
CHEVROLET	BLAZER	1996-2004
CHEVROLET	C1500 PICKUP	1996-1999
CHEVROLET	C1500 SUBURBAN	1996-1997
CHEVROLET	C2500 PICKUP	1996-1999
CHEVROLET	C2500 SUBURBAN	1996-1999
CHEVROLET	C3500 PICKUP	1996-2000
CHEVROLET	CAMARO	1998-2015
CHEVROLET	CAPRICE	2011-2016
CHEVROLET	CORVETTE	1997-2013
CHEVROLET	EXPRESS 1500	1996-2014
CHEVROLET	EXPRESS 2500	1996-2006
CHEVROLET	EXPRESS 3500	1996-2002
CHEVROLET	EXPRESS CARGO	2012-2014
CHEVROLET	K1500 PICKUP	1996-1998
CHEVROLET	K1500 SUBURBAN	1996-1999
CHEVROLET	K2500 PICKUP	1996-2000
CHEVROLET	K2500 SUBURBAN	1996-1999
CHEVROLET	K3500 PICKUP	1996-2000
CHEVROLET	P30	1990-1999
CHEVROLET	S10 PICKUP	1997-2003
CHEVROLET	SILVERADO 1500	1999-2016
CHEVROLET	SILVERADO 1500 CLASSIC	2007
CHEVROLET	SILVERADO 2500	2001
CHEVROLET	SILVERADO 3500	2001
CHEVROLET	SONORA	2002
CHEVROLET	SS	2015
CHEVROLET	SUBURBAN 1500	2009-2013
CHEVROLET	SUBURBAN 2500	2010-2011
CHEVROLET	TAHOE	1996-2011
FORD	AEROSTAR	1997
FORD	CONTOUR	1998-2000
FORD	ECOSPORT	2008-2017
FORD	ESCAPE	2002-2007
FORD	ESCORT	1998-2003
FORD	EXPLORER	1993-2010
FORD	EXPLORER SPORT	2002-2003
FORD	EXPLORER SPORT TRAC	2002-2010
FORD	FOCUS	2000-2011
FORD	FREESTAR	2004-2007
FORD	MUSTANG	2005-2010
FORD	RANGER	1995-2010
FORD	WINDSTAR	1998-2003
GMC	C1500 PICKUP	1996-1998
GMC	C1500 SUBURBAN	1997-1999
GMC	C2500 PICKUP	1996-2000
GMC	C2500 SUBURBAN	1996-1999
GMC	C3500 PICKUP	1997-2000
GMC	JIMMY	1996-2005
GMC	K1500 PICKUP	1996-1999
GMC	K1500 SUBURBAN	1996-1999
GMC	K2500 PICKUP	1996-2000
GMC	K2500 SUBURBAN	1996-1999
GMC	K3500	1996-2000
GMC	P3500	1996-1999
GMC	SAFARI	1996-2005
GMC	SAVANA 1500	1996-2013
GMC	SAVANA 2500	1996-2006
GMC	SAVANA 3500	1996-2002
GMC	SIERRA 1500	1999-2013
GMC	SIERRA 1500 CLASSIC	2007
GMC	SIERRA 2500	2001
GMC	SIERRA 3500	2001
GMC	SONOMA	1997-2004
GMC	YUKON	1996-2012
GMC	YUKON XL 1500	2009
GMC	YUKON XL 2500	2009-2013
MAZDA	B3000	2004-2005
MAZDA	B4000	1995-2009
MAZDA	NAVAJO	1994
MAZDA	TRIBUTE	2002-2004
MERCURY	COUGAR	2000-2001
MERCURY	MARINER	2005-2007
MERCURY	MONTEREY	2004-2007
MERCURY	MOUNTAINEER	1997-2010
MERCURY	MYSTIQUE	1998-2000
MERCURY	VILLAGER	2002
OLDSMOBILE	BRAVADA	1996-2001
PONTIAC	FIREBIRD	1998-2001
PONTIAC	G8	2008
PONTIAC	GTO	2004-2006
SUZUKI	KIZASHI	2012-2013
SUZUKI	SX4	2010-2013

 

[429CJ-3X2]

Good info, thanks. I did actually find the pulley on some brand x vehicle in the salvage yard, but the bolt head was a different size and I only took a 15mm socket in with me that time, partly because that's what I needed for the Ford bolt, and partly so I wouldn't get distracted and start wrenching on other parts. Time was a factor on this trip.

After a second look at that list, I'm not sure it's accurate on the Ford side. I looked at a variety of Ford engines, and didn't find another one that uses a grooved idler pulley. They all seem to use the same smooth one though. Maybe the pulley on the tensioner is the same as the one I needed.

 

[CDW6212R]

The tensioner pulley and the top idler pulley should be the same IIRC, I think I discovered that before.

I wish you knew about the radiator before going to the salvage yard. The V8 radiator is a PITA to R&R due to the condenser attached to it. If you had the V6 condenser bracket, then you could buy a V6 radiator which doesn't attach to the condenser. I always thought the V8 radiator mounted forward more than the V6 part, more under the radiator support. I've just read several times here that those can swap(using the V6 condenser bracket).

Here's a decent picture, see the thin yellow line I drew on the bracket, click on the picture if it isn't full size.

 

[429CJ-3X2]

You are correct about the pulleys. I'm tired and wasn't thinking about the tensioner having the smooth pulley, not the grooved one.

I've been reading about the radiator R&R. Not looking forward to it. The 5.0 radiator has already been ordered and shipped. Since the a/c system is empty anyway, maybe taking the radiator and condenser out together will be my best bet. At least the weather isn't too bad for Feb in Iowa. Tomorrow will be too cold to work on it, but that's the one day a week I'm working now, so I couldn't work on it tomorrow anyway.

 

[CDW6212R]

That might work to open the AC system, but if you need it later, plan to have it done and install a new drier. I've done the radiator on my last two 98's, the first time I spent about 45 minutes just figuring out what the issue was.

You have to basically get the radiator close, rearward about an inch from where it goes, and then work slow and hard to engage the three plastic tangs/hooks etc, which engage the radiator. The one on the bottom is fairly easy and you get it started first after the radiator is close. Then you spend your time at the top looking down near the cap, at the two tangs of the condenser which must engage the radiator before it can go forward into place. I used a very long screwdriver to work on the lower tang, to make it hook into place. Basically you have to fight both of them at the same time, pulling the tangs rearward to the radiator slot openings. Once you finally get the two tangs to hook into their slots, then the radiator will easily fully engage and slip into place all the way.

 

[traveler]

I recently replaced all the idler/tensioner pullies on my 5.0 Explorer. I did this because I heard a whine but couldn't find it. I even replaced the Alternator before realizing it was a pulley but couldn't figure out which one, which is why I replaced them all. I was able to get them all from NAPA without costing me too much. I figured if one was going (at nearly 200,000 miles) the others were on the way out.

 

[429CJ-3X2]

I know I'll figure this out as I get into it, but are those tangs/hooks/clips the only support for the condenser? I'm trying to think through mods to make this easier if I have to remove & replace the radiator again in the future. This Mountaineer is in above average condition with a small spot of rust at the top of one wheelwell, and surface rust on the front bumper. Has 161,000 miles. It had 133,000 when we bought it 8 yrs ago next month, and the previous owner was a mechanic who applied some sort of homemade rustproofing. Although it is my son's, it's registered in my name and when he decides to get something else, I plan to keep it barring an accident or some catastrophic failure.

 

[allmyEXes]

I just recently removed my radiator/condenser 'combo' out of my early '97 MM 5.0 truck. First I had to remove the fan blade assembly then I could remove the fan shroud. Then I disconnected both AC lines to the condenser. My AC system didn't have any refrigerant in it so I didn't have to recover it. Then I was able to remove the radiator and condenser as a unit.
I was just reading what Don @CDW6212R said about using V-6 condenser brackets to make these parts separate when removing in the future. Maybe he will clarify a bit. Can you fasten your V-8 condenser to the V-6 brackets? and bolt it in separately and then bolt the V-8 radiator back in or do you use a V-6 condenser or V-6 condenser and a V-6 radiator? Later today I will look at how my '97 4.0 SOHC truck is configured and how it sits in relationship to the radiator support compared to the V-8 truck. I would take pictures today however the photographer/bodyman/painter etc won't be at work today. I can get pictures early next week. I'm wanting to do this conversion because it was a bit of a pain on the V-8 MM not being able to hang the fan shroud on the fan, take out the radiator and then the fan.

 

[429CJ-3X2]

How do you disconnect the a/c line on the passenger side?
I don't fully understand the V6 conversion either, but I haven't compared them. The new 5.0 radiator arrived yesterday, so I won't be converting it this time anyway. If I had known about it beforehand, I might have been able to get the brackets and a V6 radiator at the salvage yard. Used radiator might be iffy, but the V6 radiator is easy to change and maybe worth taking a chance on at the right price.

 

[allmyEXes]

The lines go in to the condenser are about in the middle of both ends. It's good that you bought the 5.0 radiator. Earlier I looked at my V-6 and V-8 and it looks like the radiator is forward up under the radiator support a little on the V-8 one.