Alignment issues/pulling to the right

[98EdBomber]

I recently purchased new tires/balanced. Had the guy put it on the rack to check the alignment and everything is good. Camber is only .1 degree off. Caster is all good. The left side Toe is .25 different than the right. Guy said He could turn the tie rod maybe a quarter of a turn to even it up but it wouldnt make a difference with that small amount. So I left with my vehicle still pulling to the right.

My question is what could I look at myself to find a reason for the pulling. Frame is not bent. Steering wheel is straight but this POS just wants to go right. Did the upper and lower ball joints last summer and checked them again and no play in the wheel. Tie rods look great too. I also dont have any play in the steering wheel either. My shocks are a little warn out and even with the new tires im getting a little fluttering on the highway so Im putting new shocks on this week. Just to name a few things.

So what could I possibly do/check myself to fix the pulling to the right? Thanks.

 

[Explodr94]

Put it up on jacks and check the tires for play. Top to bottom is wheel bearings, and side to side is steering, (most likely tie rod ends). If that doesn't determine it, a guess would be inner tie rod. Other possibilities could be: steering coupler, rack and pinion, and gear box. It's a simple system and you have eliminated most of the culprits. Just keep going.

 

[corkey]

they may have set the caster and camber to "spec" but never got it right,

usually 1/2 a degree lead on the right wheel will compensate for road crown and it won't pull

did they give you a sheet with what the settings are at now ?
maybe post a pic of it, and we will tell you where they went wrong,,

 

[jremington59]

I'd probably be looking for a brake dragging.

 

[98EdBomber]

Alignment degrees

they may have set the caster and camber to "spec" but never got it right,

usually 1/2 a degree lead on the right wheel will compensate for road crown and it won't pull

did they give you a sheet with what the settings are at now ?
maybe post a pic of it, and we will tell you where they went wrong,,

I can tell you what it says. Its from BIG O. I went to Sears yesterday and it was the same but i didnt get a print out. I watched the guy from ten feet away and he let me walk up and take a look at the computer screen. All I saw was green. No reds. The BIG O printout showed the Toe as RED as is stated below. But they were the same values from both places.

AND I didnt have them adjust anything. They said the .25 would not make a difference. Something about not even a quarter turn on the tie rod and theyd have to charge full price so I opted out and drove away. They said they wouldnt have adjusted anything else because they "were in spec".

GREEN is in spec and RED is out of spec.

Primary Angles

Front:

Caster
Left: 4.1 Spec Min 3.5 Max 5.5 (GREEN)
Right: 4.6 Spec Min 3.5 Max. 5.5 (GREEN)

Camber
Left: -1.0 Spec Min. -1.4 Max. - 0.0 (GREEN)
Right: -.8 Spec Min. -1.4 Max. 0.0 (GREEN)

Toe:
Left: .25 Spec Min. -.05 Max. .20 (RED)
Right: -.20 Spec Min. -.05 Max. .20 (RED)
Toe Total: .05 Spec Min -.15 Max. .35 (GREEN)

Rear

Camber
Left: -.1
Right: -.1

Toe
Left: -.25 (GREEN)
Right: .15 (GREEN)
Toe Total: -.10 (GREEN)

Thrust Angle .2

 

[98EdBomber]

I'd probably be looking for a brake dragging.

Well you know, I am getting a pretty pronounced shutter when braking so maybe that is it.
Ive actually just ordered a set of brakes and rotors. Bendix ceramics and Centric Rotors from Rock Auto. I wasnt too sure what to get. Maybe you have some recommendations? I went to Autozone last time and I wont go back so Im trying RockAuto parts this time.

 

[jremington59]

Do yourself a favor and put on new calipers if they're original. Thats what normally causes a brake to drag.

 

[koda2000]

i think you have a brake caliper problem. the shutter can mean the caliper is hung up and the pull is probably a pad dragging because the caliper isn't free to center itself on the rotor. i'd replace the calipers with remans (fairly cheap) and don't do it w/out replacing the caliper bolts. lube the new bolts w/high-temp brake grease, use blue thread lock on the bolt threads and torque them to spec. while you're at it check for runout on the rotors and replace or have them cut (if enough material left on them and the runout isn't beyond max spec).

 

[98EdBomber]

i think you have a brake caliper problem. the shutter can mean the caliper is hung up and the pull is probably a pad dragging because the caliper isn't free to center itself on the rotor. i'd replace the calipers with remans (fairly cheap) and don't do it w/out replacing the caliper bolts. lube the new bolts w/high-temp brake grease, use blue thread lock on the bolt threads and torque them to spec. while you're at it check for runout on the rotors and replace or have them cut (if enough material left on them and the runout isn't beyond max spec).

They are the original calipers and is there a visual inspection of any of the associated parts that I can check to see if it is indeed dragging? Uneven brake pad wear?

 

[Turdle]

1/2 degree more of caster on the right side is your issue. The caster should be higher on the left side, if any.

Have that adjusted, and the toe in.

 

[98EdBomber]

1/2 degree more of caster on the right side is your issue. The caster should be higher on the left side, if any.

Have that adjusted, and the toe in.

I guess as long as the numbers are within Spec the guys at Sears didnt feel like adjusting anything. Is this laziness or does a 1/2 of degree really affect that much if it is indeed within spec?

 

[deweyville65]

Turdle mentioned the caster being more on the right than the left. Camber is also a factor. You areshowing -.8 on tbe right, and -1.0 on the left. This gives you more negative camber on the left than the right, causing a slight pull to the right. To compensate for the crown in the road, you should have less negative, or slightly positive camber on the left. An old time alignment man told me years ago to strive for straight up, or - 1/2° on the right, and +1/2°, or straight up on the left. He aligned my F-150 that way and it never wore the front tires funny. Of course that was a 77 4x4 with a straight axle. But my 96 Ex is sitting that way also, and it does not wear the front tires, nor does it pull one way or the other.

 

[98EdBomber]

i think you have a brake caliper problem. the shutter can mean the caliper is hung up and the pull is probably a pad dragging because the caliper isn't free to center itself on the rotor. I'd replace the calipers with remains (fairly cheap) and don't do it w/out replacing the caliper bolts. lube the new bolts w/high-temp brake grease, use blue thread lock on the bolt threads and torque them to spec. While you're at it check for run out on the rotors and replace or have them cut (if enough material left on them and the runout isn't beyond max spec).

So I just went out and tested each tire. The back tires both rotate pretty easily before and after spinning them and applying the brake. The fronts(without the brake applied) have some resistance and stop spinning fairly quickly.

When the brake is applied after i get them spinning, they seem to have the same amount of resistance as before the brake was applied. The left and right both have the same amount of resistance.

Should the tires spin very freely without the brakes applied or is it normal for there to be some resistance?

The fronts dont spin to a stop for as long as the rears do. The rears dont seem to have much resistance at all. If they arent dragging and are just not releasing completely, is there a way to remedy this issue.

I replaced my opwn brakes and rotors last time and I read that you may have issues if you squeeze the piston in too far when inserting the pads. IIRC I squeezed them in as far as they could go and then just pumped the brakes after i was done. They sure didnt seem as firm as i thought they should be after new rotors and brakes.

 

[koda2000]

There should be some noticeable drag on the fronts, less on the rears. However, this is not a good test. If you still have your original calipers they are due to be replaced or at least rebuilt. I’d just replace them w/remans. The problem is that most people never flush their brake fluid. This should be done about every 2 years. The reason is that brake fluid absorbs moister from the air. After a few years there's enough water present to lower the boiling temp of the fluid (causes brake fade) and it also causes rust in the lines, calipers and/or wheel cylinders. The rust causes calipers and wheel cylinders to hang and leak and steel brake lines to fail. The reason you don't push the caliper pistons in any further than necessary is to keep the o-ring seal out of the rust. Another thing to check is for equal pad wear. If one pad is worn more than the other the caliper is hanging up. This can be caused by rust inside the caliper, preventing the piston from retracting, or the caliper bolts may be worn, rusted or need to be greased, which prevents the caliper from moving freely which is necessary for the caliper to center itself on the rotor. No brake job should be considered complete without replacing the brake fluid, inspecting and greasing the caliper bolts and other components. Too many people will just slap in a new set of pads and call it done.

 

[98EdBomber]

There should be some noticeable drag on the fronts, less on the rears. However, this is not a good test. If you still have your original calipers they are due to be replaced or at least rebuilt. I’d just replace them w/remans. The problem is that most people never flush their brake fluid. This should be done about every 2 years. The reason is that brake fluid absorbs moister from the air. After a few years there's enough water present to lower the boiling temp of the fluid (causes brake fade) and it also causes rust in the lines, calipers and/or wheel cylinders. The rust causes calipers and wheel cylinders to hang and leak and steel brake lines to fail. The reason you don't push the caliper pistons in any further than necessary is to keep the o-ring seal out of the rust. Another thing to check is for equal pad wear. If one pad is worn more than the other the caliper is hanging up. This can be caused by rust inside the caliper, preventing the piston from retracting, or the caliper bolts may be worn, rusted or need to be greased, which prevents the caliper from moving freely which is necessary for the caliper to center itself on the rotor. No brake job should be considered complete without replacing the brake fluid, inspecting and greasing the caliper bolts and other components. Too many people will just slap in a new set of pads and call it done.

Good stuff. Thanks!

Any recommendations on a caliper brand name? OE Motorcraft are $180 reman!!!

Looks like they sell repair kits and it looks simple. Maybe I will do that.

 

[koda2000]

I don't think the brand is all that important. A stock brake caliper really only has one moving part (the piston). If it were me, I probably go with Autozone's for around $40.00 each for their Duralast reman with a lifetime warranty. They even come with new bolts and other hardware. If you plan on replacing your pads, AutoZone's pads (except for their cheapies) are lifetime warranty too. Wear them out and they'll just keep replacing them free. You can even upgrade to a better quality set in the future and they'll let you put your original purchase price toward the better pads. Just be careful flushing your brake fluid. I've seen threads where people have had problems because of the ABS system. I don't understand why this would be though, as long as you don't let the reservoir go empty, which would introduce air into the system. If you want to play it safe, use a small ball syringe to empty the reservoir and refill if with fresh DOT3 fluid. If you do this a couple of times (say when you changing your oil) eventually you'll have gotten most of the old fluid out. One trick I learned with Autozone is to always re-purchase the part I'm warrantying and then return the bad part later using th new receipt, this will make sure your "lifetime warranty" will go on for ever.

Good Luck!

 

[98EdBomber]

I don't think the brand is all that important. A stock brake caliper really only has one moving part (the piston). If it were me, I probably go with Autozone's for around $40.00 each for their Duralast reman with a lifetime warranty. They even come with new bolts and other hardware. If you plan on replacing your pads, AutoZone's pads (except for their cheapies) are lifetime warranty too. Wear them out and they'll just keep replacing them free. You can even upgrade to a better quality set in the future and they'll let you put your original purchase price toward the better pads. Just be careful flushing your brake fluid. I've seen threads where people have had problems because of the ABS system. I don't understand why this would be though, as long as you don't let the reservoir go empty, which would introduce air into the system. If you want to play it safe, use a small ball syringe to empty the reservoir and refill if with fresh DOT3 fluid. If you do this a couple of times (say when you changing your oil) eventually you'll have gotten most of the old fluid out. One trick I learned with Autozone is to always re-purchase the part I'm warrantying and then return the bad part later using th new receipt, this will make sure your "lifetime warranty" will go on for ever.

Good Luck!

New rotors, calipers, pads in front. Still pulling to the right. Ordered a new master cylinder for my mushy pedal but i dont think its dragging on the right side. When i brake its nice and even (no pulling). My next guess would be the rack and pinion or maybe the alignment does need to be adjusted slightly. It is only a slight pull but it is noticeable.