Bitten by the (SAS) bug!

[GJarrett]

What I think about a D30 is this. I gather you're like me and don't want to have to worry on the trail; you're tired of the IFS and I take it that's because you don't trust it anymore.... anytime you go wheeling you wonder if it's gonna mess you up (again) somewhere on the trail and cause you problems.

I'd always have the exact same worry with a D30. I know a few have put D30's in their Explorers but that's an extremely lightweight diffy to trust hauling a heavy beast like a Mountaineer through the tuff stuff. I know several have had problems with them. If I ever put a D30 in mine I'd ALWAYS be worried anytime I got far from home on a trail and would be afraid it would break. It's going backwards from the D35 sized-diffy I already have, and there's no way I'd modify my Explorer with a part that made it weaker instead of stronger.

Just my extry peso and my own opinion. I'd never even consider it.

 

[MountaineerGreen]

You are right Gerald. I won't be doing a 30, I'd rather do this just once.

That rolling chassis in TN is looking pretty good. I could go get it on a tow dolly behind the Ranger. 520 miles each way = ~ $200 in gas and a long hard day of driving.

If it goes for much more than the opening bid, I'm out though, I can buy a new one for that money.

 

[Hokie]

I thought about doing this same thing with my Mounty... but ultimately, I didn't want a SUV as my 2nd vehicle/weekend beater. If I'm going to have a 2nd vehicle that gets crappy MPG's and rides like a lifted 4x4, its going to be a '93-'97 Ranger SuperCab on 33's. So it made no sense for me to dump alot of money into the Mounty. 4-6 more months and I'll be out of grad school and finally be able to afford to do the crap that I want to.

 

[MountaineerGreen]

I'm right there with you, my job/salary is going to change radically in the next few months, plus my wife is finally going to graduate and start working herself.

 

[Turdle]

It's settled then. Evan is doing a Rubicon d44 swap. It only makes sense.

I'd be glad to pretty up the pieces for you.

 

[MountaineerGreen]

More incoming info:

with that being said... the rubi "D44" has the same tubes/outers as a D30 so I don't see a huge gain there... plus it still has uni-bearings.... same size (297x) joints as the D30..... D30 is HP (thats internets talk for HIGH PINION) and the rubi 44 is LP ( thats LOW PINION)..... so wheres the big gain...? axle size...? add some chromolly shafts and be done with it.... at least they both have the 5x4.5 BP to match the 8.8....

 

[james t]

http://www.4x4groupbuy.com/store/jeep-dana-rubicon-locking-front-axle-assembly-p-5640.html

Says 5x5

62" Wide

Yea, you want a TJ Rubicon axle to get the 5 on 4.5. I thought the JK axles were wider than 62 though? Dunno.

BTW sureshot is a member here and although i dont like to admit it he's been my best friend since birth. : He's built a Jeep or two and can usually spout off the Jeep info like a book.

To expound on what Gerald is getting at, id like to suggest going 5 on 5.5 and getting away from 5 on 4.5 altogether. A built solid axle V8 Explorer is going to be pushing 5k lbs loaded and ready for the trail even with 33's on it. The problem with 5 on 4.5 is the inside of the bolt pattern keeps you from getting decent wheel bearings and hubs. Lets do some comparing to let you think for a second-

HP Jeep D30 vs. Early Bronco LP D44. You can run basically the same shafts in either, and the strength of the HP30 gearset (in forward) is pretty close to the LP44. BUT, the LP44 will have much stronger "consumables"... and that is what is going to be your biggest PITA long-term. Although on paper the HP30 and LP44 can be built the same... the fact is the HP30 has tonka truck wheel bearings, spindles, hubs, and balljoints. If you plan on keeping the thing for a long time, this stuff adds up and will eventually overtake any cost savings you got early on from going with the 5 on 4.5.

Balljoints for both sides upper and lower are going to be $120. For your rig, you will do them once on the D44 and probably never touch them again. On the D30 you will be doing them at least once a year. Same for wheel bearings... actually worse if you've got unitbearings. Now take what i just said above and apply it all to the Rubi D44. The outers on it are the same crap as a D30.

Also, just by "eyeballing" it, a low-lift SAS with a HP axle is going to be a headache. This is one area where the LP will help you out alot. 99.999999% of the SAS's done on this site are kinda tall with 36's being the norm... ive never seen anyone do a low COG SAS on an Explorer and run 33's (although i think its a great idea).

Sorry for the ramble... just some things to think about.

 

[Hokie]

Also, just by "eyeballing" it, a low-lift SAS with a HP axle is going to be a headache. This is one area where the LP will help you out alot. 99.999999% of the SAS's done on this site are kinda tall with 36's being the norm... ive never seen anyone do a low COG SAS on an Explorer and run 33's (although i think its a great idea).

This is another thing I thought about when I was trying figure out what to do after laying the Mounty on its side this past winter. I considered doing an SAS and going to 33's but I didn't trust a D30 with 4.10 gears and V8+4406 torque. I really didn't want to go bigger than 33's b/c a lifted/locked truck on 33's and underbody protection can get me into way more trouble than I want on the trails in Colorado.

 

[MountaineerGreen]

James, I truly appreciate your input, feel free to ramble at any time.

I looked into sureshot's suggestion, chromos for a D30 are $500-$600, by the time I add 4.10's and a locker I'd be in the same boat for a brand new Rubi axle.

My reasons for wanting the Rubi 44 are the following-

They include an ABS sensor, I really think I can keep my ABS functioning with them.

They have an air locker in them and the correct gears for what I want to run (4.10's)

The width is about right. I am honestly not ready for custom axles for a cut down FW D44. Here in the great state of Arkansas, the axle shaft makers are far, far away and a broken axle shaft that has to be custom made could mean big trouble. An early bronco axle could work, but I suspect those are getting hard to find.

I wasn't aware the Rubi 44 shared the same outer junk as the D30 though.

I'm not opposed to a bolt pattern change, I just really like the wheels I have now. The may not fit over the hubs on a Rubicon axle anyway.

The low COG SAS will fit my needs well, it ought to flex out nicely, drive about like it does now and I can wheel it without fear of IFS nightmares. Broken IFS stuff is a real pain 1,500 miles from home. Since I don't have a tow rig a more moderate lift will make a more travel friendly rig in the fuel department.

The big rigs are cool and all, but I'm not quite ready to beat the livin crap out of mine yet hardcore wheelin. A well built SAS can be "upgraded" later with an SOA out back and longer coilovers up front.

After all that- do I need to drop the ABS idea, do a LP D44 and call it good? :scratch:

 

[FROADER]

I would go for the LP EB D44. DB_1 has had one for about 7 years and it works great. The LPs work just fine, it's just the HPs are more sought after.

 

[MountaineerGreen]

I was crawling around under there tonight, a low COG is going to be tough, there is a whole lot of engine stuff hanging low. I think I am going to have to run a LP to make it work.

 

[MountaineerGreen]

Anybody who has some input, I welcome it, I've read SAS registries until my eyes hurt. Sooo many options and opinions.

I think I'm definitely going coilover for this though.

 

[james t]

IMHO, either EB D44 or waggy. The EB axles arent as rare as you think... its pretty easy to find someone who's upgrading their trail rig. Hell, i gave my last one away (with no brakes on it). Keep in mind you will probably need to put disk brakes on the thing... this is super cheap and easy with junkyard parts and there is a couple of ways to do it.

 

[MountaineerGreen]

The problem I have is availability of parts- there are no old school junkyards left, anything over a few years old has long since been hauled off for scrap. I've seen people drive perfectly good rolling trucks across the scales for scrap metal One I remember in particular was a F250 with a D60.

 

[james t]

Sureshot and i could probably find you something around here... but once you figure in gas for a trip from one corner of AR to the other and back you may as well just order a Dynatrac lol. :

Oh wait, thats not really funny.

 

[MountaineerGreen]

Its a sad reality isn't it? High gas prices have influenced this greatly, if gas was cheaper, I'd never have a third vehicle and a SAS would be out of the question.

I dunno- do you think a Rubi 44 would really be that bad? It seemed so perfect until I looked into it in depth.

 

[MountaineerGreen]

Sureshot and i could probably find you something around here... but once you figure in gas for a trip from one corner of AR to the other and back you may as well just order a Dynatrac lol. :

Oh wait, thats not really funny.

Just for kicks, I looked up Dynatrack- $5500+ for a D44 I can drive to Texarkana for less than that in a tank.

 

[FROADER]

Just keep an eye out. I...well, Dannyboy...found those axles for my van on craigslist. Both (including a d60) from an '04 f250 with 4.56s already for $900. Check on pirate or other bronco sites for guys upgrading their old stuff.

 

[GJarrett]

One other thing I just thought of with the "low-lift" SAS idea. If you look at first gen Explorers they have a pretty good frame arch above the axle that allows for good flex under compression while stuffing the tires up. Ours doesn't have that - the frame rails are a straight line. I'm not near my Explorer right now; but without personally eyeballing it, my mind's eye is thinking that you would have to design a fairly significant amount of lift with a 2nd gen: else your straight frame rails would be sitting on your axle :scratch:

 

[MountaineerGreen]

Gerald, I was looking at that very thing the other day. My plan is to run somewhere around 12" C/O's, (I'll measure and order what's needed when I get the axle hung) but only have about 3-4" of shaft exposed, meaning most of the travel will be downward. I'll use some beefy bumpstops to stop the axle before it hurts anything.

My friend had a 95 Land Rover, it sat pretty low to the ground, but since it was solid axles front and rear and had super soft springs, that thing flexed like crazy. Having 8" of downward travel will certainly help keep all four tires on the ground.





This axle thing is killing me, I don't know what to do. I really want to keep ABS, the only axle I know of that has sensors similar to ours is the Rubi axle, but in all reality it's not much better than a D30.