Complete Mustang 5.0L in 00-01 Explorer V8?

[drhill]

Hi Everyone,

I'm pretty new here but I have done a lot of searches and read quite a bit about the differences between the 5.0 in the Explorers and the 5.0 in the Mustangs but I haven't seen much on this specific issue. Heres my plan:

I'm planning to get a 00-01 Explorer/Mountaineer 2wd V8 and possibly swap in the following motor:

I have a complete 306 motor from a 93 mustang that needs new rings etc... This motor is built with custom cam, ported GT-40x Aluminum heads, Performer RPM intake, 75mm TB and the big mod - Vortech S-trim supercharger. This motor put out 560 RWHP when it was healthy.

Where are my problem areas going to be?
Will the Throttle cable hook up?
Will I have any clearance problems with the accessories or the supercharger set up?
Are the fuel systems the same configuration?
How about using the EEC-IV computer in the Explorer?

I know I'll have to use the Explorer oil pan, engine mounts, get Explorer headers and possibly tranny/cooling upgrades. I would really like to use the complete motor as is with accessories and EEC-IV computer to run it as already have a custom tune and this way I can avoid the DIS compatibility issue. I'll also go with an electric fan if need be. I likely will de-tune this motor a bit so I don't have to do a complete custom fuel system like was in the Mustang.

I have a similar supercharged 347 in a 95 mustang if for any reason this swap would be much easier due to packaging and accessories but I'd rather not...

Thanks in advance for the insight, I have to believe that someone has probably done this before

 

[410Fortune]

You need to sell that engine to me it will never work



What transmission are you going to use?

This is a very important question before I/we can help you get that short block into an explorer, it has everything to do with the explorer computer

problem areas are the transmission, the oil pan, oil filter, the exhaust manifolds as you have pointed out but also the very short serpentine front dress and timing cover for the explorer
the fuel system will not support 500+ HP, you will need upgrades

 

[CDW6212R]

If you have the 95 Mustang with the stock accessory front dress, imagine what it would be like putting the longer 93 engine into that.

You have to use the short front dress like the Explorer 302, which has the identical depth as the SN95 Mustangs. The accessories are located in similar locations as the 95, but not enough to be able to use the 95 brackets. I have 94 GT wreck which I compared the front brackets from. You may be able to use the alternator bracket, but the AC bracket has to be from the Explorer 96-01. The Explorer water pump is shorter than the SN95 pump, though they locate the pulleys in the same place. The difference is in the mounting plate location and center shaft. The Mustang pump would stick out farther into the fan.

The fuel system is just like the Mustangs in size, though the fuel lines at the engine differ. You can buy aftermarket adapter fittings to plug in an aftermarket fuel rail etc. The 99 and newer have returnless fuel systems, you would be happier dealing with a 98 truck. There are few differences in features between 98-01, the fuel type, side air bags, heated seat option, little stuff.

You will need to fabricate the supercharger mount stuff, which has been done before. Check into the boosted Mountaineer forum, I think more of that is there.

The OBDII is better than the EECIV for tuning, ease of modifications, no distributor clearance issues etc. It is more powerful and can adapt to any modifications, with a PCM flasher. You do not need any aftermarket devices with the OBDII, other than the flasher. That is all programming, in the stock PCM, and can be done remotely or yourself, with the right software and wideband O2.

That OBDII does require the Explorer balancer(50oz.) due to the crank trigger wheel built into it. You would have to have a custom balancer made with the crank trigger made to fit onto the back of the balancer. I have one in 28oz. for my 347 that I have yet to start. I'm not pleased with having the trigger wheel move while at the engine builder. I'm going to have another one built with the trigger wheel pinned in place. To do that requires an FMS balancer to make it, no aftermarket balancer has the needed back surface material to do it. I'm working with the FMS 28oz. balancer, the 306 would need a 50oz. FMS balancer to begin with.

For the TB, the Explorer TB matches the Explorer cables and not the Mustang. The best answer is what I've almost finished with an Accufab 75mm TB. I drilled out the mounting holes of my OEM 98 TPS, the holes are outboard from a Mustang TB. I finished that and tested it on my stock Explorer 302. I will next cut the cable attaching arm from my oldest Explorer TB, and bolt it to the 86-93 Mustang TB to place the "ball" where it needs to be with the stock Explorer bracket. The throttle bracket mounts to the Explorer elbow, which is needed and about 70mm in size. It's too thin to open up much, though I have just enough to work with the 75MM TB.

That's the important stuff, but there will be other little things. Start on the headers, you won't like them.

 

[drhill]

Excellent - already some good info on the returnless fuel system - you are right guys, I would very much like to keep the fuel system the same pressure etc...

I was planning to keep the 4r70w if at all possible - it has a great reputation in the mustang community. I see where you might be going with this - does it need a computer to manage it? If so - maybe I can just get a built AOD instead...

CDW6212R - I see your point on the accessories - and I just saw a pic of someone's motor on this board who is using the 94-95 mustang intake elbow on their custom motor...looking at that pic, I imagine my 94-95 motor w/ supercharger might fit better with this in mind plus accessory depth. I would really rather not get into a "hybrid" motor with parts from the explorer and parts from the mustang plus metal fabrication to tie it all together - although I see the logic in using as much explorer stuff as possible and then building up that motor and system - I see that route costing a lot of $$$ plus I already have all the mustang parts.


I don't mind extending some A/C lines or wiring for the alternator or starter...but I would much rather avoid the DIS, OBD II and messing with balancer weights if I can avoid it.

Is there any reason the 94-95 setup wouldn't physically fit in the explorer engine bay? Has anyone done this? Also - will I have any dash or gauge or security issues not using the Explorer computer?

Thanks again for all the help so far!

 

[drhill]

I just found these pics - first one was posted as a 97 explorer 5.0L and the second is my 95 supercharged 5.0L set up...they look very similar in placement to me? Does this throttle body set up look better than the 87-93 mustang TB that most are modifying?

I wonder if there is enough room for the 8 rim vortech belt and pulley system which hangs in front of the oem accessory drive??


http://www.explorerforum.com/photopost/data/500/28934_litre_vs_5_litre.jpg

http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/prod_imgs/img-87-0-xlarge.jpg

 

[410Fortune]

you can make room up front for that most likely

the 4r70w would require a stand alone computer if you are planning to ditch the OBD-II computer, DIS, and stock EFI

OR

you can make everything you want work with the existing explorer computer

people have gone down both roads before, I believe Trolls 11 second 4 door AWD had a factory PCM in it, still using the DIS not a distributor
The OBD-II computer and avail wideband tuning is the way to go for you IMO, but of course the older speed density systems with the distributor also can be tuned to work well.. I am just saying the explorer already has a computer that is TUNE friendly from mild to wild and it already has a 4r70w controller, if you are clever you can make your long block work in this truck fairly easily IMO I would be most worried about the exhaust/steering issues first, get it in there then figure out plumbing/cooling/accessories

 

[CDW6212R]

The SN95 AC compressor is lower than the Explorer. Below it in the truck are brake lines and the control arm, you can use the Explorer bracket and AC in any case.

There is 3.5" between the water pump shaft and the radiator. You cannot use a second belt with the mechanical fan for sure. You don't need an air pump(except for crankcase), so the SN95 bracket etc. might fit. The belt sticking out forward of the stock belt is a problem. It would be easier to relocate the supercharger rearward and run it off of the Explorer belt. But there is the LCA and header down in there.

The PCM controls the 4R70W, and it's very tunable with a flasher. The 98+ trans is the best, it has a mechanical diode clutch on the reverse drum, and the best DRTS and accumulators. Only the latest 4R75W is better, with a slightly stronger planetary($300 or so).

The 98+ have a PATS system, which can be disabled in the PCM(flasher). Otherwise you would need to remove the PATS module and emulate the 96/97 system to deactivate it. No one kills the PCM and uses an older computer.

Buy a 98 truck with the options you want and a 302 with 2WD or AWD. Then see about the front dress in person. Pull the alternator and air box out and see how much space is left for the supercharger.

 

[CDW6212R]

Troll's truck had a distributor, and a lot of Mustang parts, he built that starting almost ten years ago now. What became of him and the truck?

 

[drhill]

Thanks guys - I see why people use as much of the Explorer stuff as possible - it makes sense.

I was just trying to use a motor that is complete, tuned and dialed in already...if I was planning to start from scratch I agree that my idea would be completely stupid! I guess this is not a very common approach and since I am not a big fan of metal fabrication etc...I will not be trying this one on my own...If the trail had already been blazed then maybe.

So it sound like I could maximize my parts by going N/A and dealing with the balancing issue and throttle body issue but I'd love to have the s/c power! In that case I'd have to spend big $$ for an explorer 'charger which probably couldn't keep up with my motor or blaze a trail to modify a bracket to mount my vortech somehow...

 

[CDW6212R]

The blower you have may work great, but I don't think that there are references to that here. Please hunt around to find the many examples of superchargers that have been custom installed in an Explorer.

There have been only two superchargers made for the Explorer, and both were very low boost small blower kits. Skip those, hunt the people who have stuck a blower more like you have in their truck. The stock pistons are hypereutectic, so those trucks are rare. The engines need upgrades as you know to take real boost.

The fuel lines are not fun but just like a Mustang to do. The headers are junk, and the one aftermarket choice is $600 for 1.5" primaries. The flashers by SCT, Excal I - III can be had used, but figure $390 for new with a set of first tunes. Custom tuning is more special, but we have people to point you to if you don't have someone close.

I'll have learned more about the balancer definitively before you need something. I just don't like my first impression after getting one back three times. It was as expected when made, I took pictures and sent it to the engine builder. When I was about to install it the trigger wheel was not at TDC. The engine builder knew nothing of it moving, I sent it to the maker, he reset the trigger wheel and returned it to me. Supposedly this time it's Loctited on and won't spin. Fine but the trigger wheel is clearly off from TDC by a good 7 degrees or so, you can see it by eye. So, how should I feel about that? I took it to my local machinist, not engines just a trusted shop. He said he would have pinned it for sure, I hadn't thought of that. I've got an FMS balancer waiting for me at Ford, they are under $100 and easy to get. They aren't SFI certified for high rpm, but considered very good parts. It will work fine for my engine which shouldn't see past 6000rpm. I'm hoping to have my machinist figure out what was machined from the back to install the trigger wheel. I hope to have another one made here which I trust more. Regards,

 

[410Fortune]

dangit don I want to move to your street LOL any houses for sale? Your V8 knowledge is awesome! Learn by doing right?

Last we saw from Troll and his brother they tig welded an all new custom intercooler and intake for their monster explorer, shooting for mid 10's I thought, still with 2-15's in the back LOL that was two years ago now I believe....other racing projects had taken the fore front for them? Now much else to do in Florida then go fast or go muddin! LOL

 

[CDW6212R]

I have one friend that is also a big car nut, but we don't get a lot done. He's basically retired with a high maintenance wife, and I'm a lot slow. Money makes a difference too, sometimes I have it, other times like everyone I have nothing. Now I've got a lot to do, I need to get outside and work on it. Thanks for the kind words, I do like a bunch of the people here and the ideas that they come up with. Keep it up Jamie.

 

[drhill]

Ok guys this stuff is soaking in a little to me now...

If I was to go with an N/A 347...would I be able to upgrade the fuel system on the 99-01 trucks with the returnless fuel system and higher pressure? Coming from the mustang world - could I use a Walbro 255 lph in tank pump and some bigger injectors? Or am I limited to the 98 and older trucks??

Thanks again!!

 

[CDW6212R]

Yes you can swap the pump, the GS340 bolts right in. The returnless system is basically just as tunable as the return style, but most people prefer the old. For just a simple NA combination I wouldn't hesitate to use either. I think the late trucks have the same one large line, 5/16" most likely. Meaning to upgrade that you are doing the same installation, they run the same path. The later FI is 62psi constantly, no vacuum line, the FPR is in the tank between the pump and the pickup outlet. They take the same pumps.

I have the 255lt/hr pump ready to go in my tank, I won't need bigger fuel lines for the 347 NA, 5500-6000rpm. 30lbs. injectors I have will do for that. I built mine with 9.65:1 compression thinking I may never add boost, but if so it can take 8psi or so still.

 

[drhill]

Ok... one more question! Do you guys know if a 351W motor will fit into the explorers? Any problems to watch out for? Anyone done this swap?


If I'm going N/A might as well go big!

 

[CDW6212R]

It's really way too much trouble. I need to find a place to paste some links that are helpful for stuff like this. There is a friend who is big on the RPS forum with a 2003 Ranger and a 302 Explorer, AWD. He did most of what is needed to get a 351W in, but the list of fabricated or altered parts is long. He custom made headers, massive project, an oil pan, and a cam synchronizer(distributor).

The stroker 302's can make really good power with the right heads, camshaft etc. That fits right in with only the headers to deal with, so I'd stick with a 302. I know the 302 block is not good for much beyond 450-550hp, and the 351 can handle 700+ stock, but it takes a bunch of money to reach that power. What kind of heads and cam do you plan for?

 

[IZwack]

Yes you can swap the pump, the GS340 bolts right in.

Sorry for the hijack - where might one find this elusive GS340 because I can't find it anywhere online.

 

[drhill]

Understood - I would like to minimize custom parts and hassle...

I imagine with the later trucks you don't mess with Fuel Pressure at all because of the detailed tuning you can do in the computer for injectors etc...unlike the EEC-IV, where it can benefit sometimes to crutch with FP...GS340 bolts right in to later trucks too?


I have a set of GT-40x Aluminum Heads - professionally ported (don't know how much or by whom but they supported 560rwhp blown) i'm told they didn't ruin port velocity...and even with a big cam, race intake and small cubes, still has good low end in my mustang!

I'd probably do a maximum of a TFS stage 1 one cam...the cam I have now is custom for a mustang and WAY too big! I wouldl put a 2200-2400 stall Lockup converter in the 4r70w though...

Probably a street intake like TFS or Edel Performer...

Torque Monster headers (is this really all there is??) and fab up a 3" single exhaust probably...unless dual are easier...

In this scenario - I'd shoot for 400 crank HP...and probably have a really good time with it...

 

[CDW6212R]

Sorry for the hijack - where might one find this elusive GS340 because I can't find it anywhere online.

The GS340 part number doesn't turn up in a lot of searches. That's just the good number to make sure you get, as there are 3-4 different 255 pumps. I'd like to try this TRE pump some day, it's supposed to be quieter. I got the GS340 for $50 long ago, so that's my pump.
http://treperformance.com/i-63668-ford-explorer-255-lph-fuel-pump-1997-2003.html

 

[CDW6212R]

You can use a lot of what you mentioned and get the 400hp. The OTS cams and smaller intakes will hold you back though. The headers are a big can of worms that I'm leaving till last. Those are costing probably 25hp from the stock GT40 302 engine. The Explorer 302 is the same engine as the 240hp 93 Cobra, except for the camshaft. The Explorer cam is basically the same as all truck roller cams, low rpm and not made for the GT40 parts.

I'd recommend a custom cam for sure, that $400 is good money to take advantage of what heads etc. that you use. The high port style of heads have better potential, which is why many choose the Canfields. My stock GT40 intake is smaller than I would choose if I did it again, but I had the cam made for it and it's ported. I have a 2800rpm TC(none of mine is in yet), but Jon here has a 347 with a 3000rpm TC. He does great with it, but he's changing to a off road combination now. Towing and offroading don't go well with higher stall TC's.

If you do the 347 then a bigger intake would be smart, such as the Holley or TFS R, depending on how high you go with rpm's. With a custom cam and tuning, the bigger intakes don't give up very much low end anyway.