Getting ready to lift. Quick questions

[timtimtimajim]

With the leaf springs, would it make more sense to get ones that provide 2" of lift? Or ones that provide 3" of lift?

I feel like the 2" would make it ride close to level or slightly lower in the back.

Where as the 3" would cause it to have a raked looked.

Either way though the springs will settle a bit. Right?

 

[Maniak]

I'd say go with 3". Once it settles if you want to raise the front "a little" you can put on some 1/2" spacers. When I got my Duff kit it came with 1 spacer and it should be somewhat easy to have copied from locally. I mean it's just a 1/2 thick piece of round bar with a hole drilled in the center...

It will still be alignable even with the spacer... Heck, I was able to align our X with the Duff 2.5" brackets, Duff springs and f-150 spring seats (about 1.5" more of lift). Since it was stage 1 the caster was off but that didn't really mater. The Camber just needed bigger camber cams...

Oh yea, I did check the rear brake line and all it has on it is a metal ring that says Earls 47. I have no idea what it means.. I did a quick look at the Holley/Earls site and that doesn't seem to make any sense for a p/n for a brake line.

~Mark

 

[timtimtimajim]

What kind of fittings are on either end of the rear line? And how long does the extended one need to be? That might help me source something a little easier. Plus if I can find something that is kept in stock in a parts store, that would be my best option I would think.

 

[Rhett]

Oh yea, I did check the rear brake line and all it has on it is a metal ring that says Earls 47. I have no idea what it means.. I did a quick look at the Holley/Earls site and that doesn't seem to make any sense for a p/n for a brake line.

Might be a brake line from Earl's Indy? They make custom brake lines.
http://www.earlsindy.com/home/

 

[Maniak]

@Rhett, I know it's Earls, as in Holley (same company)..

What kind of fittings are on either end of the rear line? And how long does the extended one need to be? That might help me source something a little easier. Plus if I can find something that is kept in stock in a parts store, that would be my best option I would think.

I got to thinking about how you are trying to stay with OEM or at least something you can find if you rip one and it occurred to me I have the same issue... Then I remembered I bought a spare line since all 3 of my stainless lines are the same and sure enough... I have an Earls 63010124 brake hose in the spare parts collection in the X. I did climb back under the X with some brake cleaner and the p/n is still on the piece of heat shrink on the line... I didn't see it last time since I didn't know to look there.

So, I'm using an Earls (aka: Holley) 63010124 stainless steel brake hose which is 24" long and has a -3AN fitting on each side... For the rear it just goes between the hard line at the frame and the hard line on the axle... For the fronts I made my own "funky" fitting for the drivers side and it has those block looking things screwed into the ends. That earl's line is only a $15 part but I doubt you'll find it in a chain auto store.

It also occurred to me that we didn't extend the rear brake hose until after I put in the OME-36 springs and possibly not until after I put in the shackles too.... That's about the time I replaced one of the front lines since it was rubbing on the tire.

~Mark

 

[timtimtimajim]

You know I might just get one of those for the rear and stick with the Chevy lines for up front. Plus at $15 for a stainless line then why not. To me it seems like the ones that would be more prone to getting broken would be the fronts. I worry much less about tearing a rear line as it seems the rear is more protected. Is my thinking correct on this? Do you think that would work?

 

[Maniak]

Unless you are driving through brush/trees (e.g. not treading lightly) then that rear line is very protected. It's just running from the frame line to the center of the diff. You could just put your stock on in the back with your other spare parts (assuming you are wheeling).. We ran that stock one without issue with 2.5" of lift.

Even the front lines are protected by being between so much.

The only times I've seen a front line break on the trail is when some people tried a "Sunday Run" at Truckhaven and 2 people went off a nice ledge and broke things... IIRC the 1st gen explorer ripped the shock/spring out which let the axle droop too far and it ripped the brake line right off. I had an old spare (broken) line that we put on and clamped shut with vice grips and he drove home... The other vehicle ( @carlover ) broke both ball joints... Ahh fun times..



One of my front brake lines ended up rubbing on the tire for a long time and while it went through the steel braiding it never blew the line... I caught it when I was doing an oil change/service on the X.

~Mark

 

[timtimtimajim]

Okay I think I'll go that route for now then. (Chevy lines up front, Earls stainless in the back) Saves me some money for the time being, which is always a good thing. I will upgrade to stainless lines up front down the road.

I'm thinking I'm going to order leaf springs from Custom Suspension. They offer 3" leaf springs with bushings for $558 and it'll only take two weeks for them to arrive at my door. They're not the cheapest price that I got, but they are one of the lower ones.

Once again thanks for all your help guys! Hope to go wheeling with some of you guys someday.

 

[timtimtimajim]

Crap, I forgot to account for shipping on those leaf springs. So it ends up being $753 with shipping. Back to searching...

 

[Rhett]

Yeah shipping can be bad. I guess that's why so many people go with shackles /add-a-leaf or spring over instead of lift springs. Still I think the pro's outweigh the con's of doing lift springs rather than AAL/shackles, if you don't want SOA.

And regarding brake lines -- school me on this, because the most lift I've ever run are shackles and spacers. I have always been under the impression that extended lines are only "needed" if you are running 4+" of lift. Is that correct?

So you are doing new lines simply because you need new lines, or expect to flex near the limit, and are just playing it safe?
I'm only asking because I did not anticipate doing extended lines with my frankenlift...

 

[timtimtimajim]

I agree with you on the lift springs. The pros make it worth it.

It's really a combination of things on the brake lines. The first reason is because I figured it wouldn't hurt to put new lines on as I still have the factory ones on there and they're looking a little rough. The second is because I know I will be flexing out the suspension quite a bit. I already do in stock form. I've had all four wheels at full bump and full droop at one point or another. And I know with the lift I'll probably be pushing it harder so I'd rather just play it safe.

 

[timtimtimajim]

Here's another good question: Specialty tools? I'm talking like weird sockets, really big wrenches, etc. that I might need that any other regular set of tools doesn't have. Figure I should get the tool side of things sorted out ahead of time as well.

 

[Dzrtcj7]

Crap, I forgot to account for shipping on those leaf springs. So it ends up being $753 with shipping. Back to searching...

I'm no way affiliated or pushing their product, but Alcan is located in Grand Junction, CO. They built springs for a couple of the trucks I used to race with in the desert. I have no clue if their price minus shipping would save you anything.

 

[timtimtimajim]

Having them closer like that makes shipping cheaper. Their price with shipping was $630, so not too bad. Only problem was their response to my email was a quote for 4" springs when I asked about 2.5-3". However I'm going to call them tomorrow and see if they can do springs with 3" lift, which I would imagine they can. I'm also going to call General Spring, because they haven't responded to my email yet, and see if they can do custom 3" lift springs.

My goal is to have the last few parts needed sorted out by the end of this week.

 

[Dzrtcj7]

Here's another good question: Specialty tools? I'm talking like weird sockets, really big wrenches, etc. that I might need that any other regular set of tools doesn't have. Figure I should get the tool side of things sorted out ahead of time as well.

I didn't really use anything special. Have some larger sockets (1 1/8") on hand for things like the coil spring retainer nut, the radius arm nuts and the radius arm attachment bolts. A breaker bar with a cheater, a dead blow hammer, an impact gun, a propane torch and a good torque wrench will all be handy.

The coil spring retainer is a large lock nut that is a bit of a pain to get to, and really long winded. http://www.explorerforum.com/forums...-spring-retainer-nut-removal-question.166579/ and http://www.explorerforum.com/forums...h-to-use-on-the-front-coil-spring-nut.121665/. If you are installing the Duff coil buckets, you'll realize that you can't reach down the center of the coil spring with a socket, so you'll be hand wrenching it.

The radius arm bushing nuts can be a beast if they are corroded up: http://www.explorerforum.com/forums...orer-ranger-radius-arm-bushing-repair.287596/

The bolts that attach the radius arm to the beam are usually really, really tight and have factory locktite on them. Heat will help break down the locktite, I used a 36" cheater on my 1/2" breaker bar after heat to break them loose, then a beefy impact gun to work them out. http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/index.php?threads/removing-the-radius-arm-stud-bolts.337341/

For removing the rivets in the radius arm bracket and the coil buckets (if need be), the hot ticket is to grind the heads completely flush, then hit them with an air hammer.

You'll need to be prepared the ream out all of the mounting holes to a true 1/2", so the supplied hardware will fit. I used a stepper bit for most stuff. If you are doing the extended radius arms, you'll need to drill several holes in the frame for the new transmission cross member/ radius arm mount. Also, if you are doing the new radius arms, the nut's/ bolts on those will take a 1 1/2" wrench/ socket to tighten up.

There is good odds that you'll have at least one leaf spring/ shackle bolt froze up. Having a skinny wheel on hand will be useful for cutting the head off.

Edit: Also have a decent set of flare nut wrenches on hand for the brake lines. If they give you trouble, before you strip them, try giving them some heat and penetrating oil. Beware that if you give it too much heat, the rubber brake line will explode. I had one that I couldn't get loose, so I had to cut the brake line and re flare it.

 

[Dzrtcj7]

I just looked at the parts list for the Stage II kit, so it looks like you're getting coil buckets, dual shocks and radius arms. One thing to be aware of, is your are going to be drilling holes for both the transmission cross member and the dual shock mounts. I'm not sure if Sport frames are different than 4dr's, but on my sport, most of those bolts went through a double wall portion of the frame. Drilling through both layers without catching the drill, breaking a bit and twisting your wrist is a trick. I broke 2 1/2" bits before I went to using the stepper bit. Almost all of the holes you'll drill in the drivers side will impact fuel lines and brake lines. I was able to pop mine out of their holders and push them away from the frame enough the not hit them if I was really careful.

A couple things to consider when bolting through the double wall frame; Duff probably won't send long enough hardware for these spots. I think I needed to buy 10 2 1/2" bolts to get these spots. Second, the "right" way to bolt through a double wall frame is to sleeve the hole so it doesn't crush when tightened, and also deform over time. I took in to consideration how well supported the transmission cross member is, and how there will only be shear load on the bolts, not side load, and made the decision to not sleeve the holes. With the large washers that are supplied with the kit and nylock bolts, I believe that there is enough strength in that to support the loads without deforming the frame.

One last little catch I found; the coil spring retainer probably won't fit as shipped. I fought it and fought it, finally I reamed out the retainer both hole in the coil bucket and installed the retainer backwards. In talking to customer support at Duff, they recognized that this is how the retainer fits until they can redesign it.

 

[timtimtimajim]

So finally got my leaf springs ordered. Ended up going with Alcan. They are building me a custom set of springs with 3" of lift for $540 plus $90 shipping. The price is a little higher than I originally planned to spend, but since they are doing them custom I figured why not. Plus they are a Colorado company so that makes me like them that much more. Leaf springs should be here in 3-4 weeks.

Lift kit showed up on Monday. Can't wait to have the time off to install it.

Once again, thanks for your help guys!

 

[Rhett]

You're going with the 2.5" Duff kit, yes? That one has extended arms? Sounds good.

My setup (for now, anyway) is going to be, Skyjacker 132X springs, Moog camber bushings up front, and the OME36 leaf pack in back. I'll probably have a bit less lift than you have once it's all said and done. If I need more I'll explore other options. "Explore" other options -- that's a pun here.

 

[timtimtimajim]

Yep that's the one I'm going with. Just unpacking the parts I'm glad I chose it.

That's still a pretty good setup you're using. Our Explorers are going to stay very similar I guess!

That pun never gets old...

 

[timtimtimajim]

Been working on this for the last few days. Should be able to finish up by tomorrow evening.

One of the things I wanted to take care of today was the rear brake hose. How do you get the old one off? The side that comes from the hard line just needs a wrench, so that's easy. What I'm stuck on is the connection into the block on top of the differential. There is nothing on that end of the hose that looks like I can use a wrench to take it off. So how do you take it off?