How much lift do you need in a floor jack for Gen II?

[lobo411]

I searched and searched, and while I found lots of threads on jacks and jack stands, I didn't find a specific answer to my question. How much lift do you need to have in a floor jack to get the wheels off the ground for a stock 4x2 4 door Gen II Explorer?

I bought the Arcan HJ2500 from Costco today but I haven't taken it out of the box yet because I want to be sure it'll go high enough to remove the tires. The HJ2500 is a 2.5 ton floor jack w/ an 18.5" maximum lift height. It's an aluminum/steel combo that weighs 57 lbs.

I wanted a jack that wasn't going to be too heavy (Harbor Freight has a 3 ton jack that goes to 19.75", but it weighs 70 lbs), and I wanted Costco's fantastic return policy since IME Chinese hydraulics inevitably leak. Of course, if 18.5" isn't enough to get the wheels off the ground, then that's all there is to it.

Thanks!

 

[Flash]

You could always put a piece of wood between the lifting pad and the body.

I've got a 2.5 t jack that lifts my 4wd plenty no matter where I jack it from.
Don't know how high it is though.

 

[RangerX]

Put the jack under the axle and it only has to lift about 4-6"!
That jack will be fine, I have the same one and it works on my lifted Ranger.

 

[J_C]

Remembering that you should never use a jack alone without jack stands, consider how high your jack stands can safely be extended. If 18.5" is all the stands can handle there's no point in one that can go higher. I mean add 3/4" inch or so to the stand stated lift so the stand can still be slid under with clearance for the ears or whatever they're called, or just measuring it would be better.

On the other hand it can be easier to work under a vehicle if you have a little more room to move your arms around to get a good angle for leverage or to see something from a different angle, or room for a crawler to lie on, so if your jack stands allow more life than the jack, I'd get a jack with more lift.

As far as weight goes I don't know how you need to use it or how your back is. I never need to lift mine more than from the ground into my Explorer cargo area or a car trunk if it needs transported... assuming you're talking about models with wheels.

 

[koda2000]

You don't need very much lift to get the wheels off the ground if you use the suggested jack points (under the rear spring perches on the rear and the hooks on the lower control arms in the front). I use 2 aluminum racing jacks I got from Harbor Freight. They lift to 17". I find these jacks are sufficient for all my under-truck needs. ALWAYS use safety stands when getting under a vehicle. NEVER trust a jack. There are 2 brackets on the front frame rails (behind the front wheels) that I place my safety stands on. In the rear, place the safety stands under the rear axle. If you need a little more lift, put some pieces of wood on top of the jack.

 

[lobo411]

Thanks all! Sounds like the Costco jack will do fine. Jack weight is an issue for me, so I didn't want one of the 100 lb steel jacks, and I didn't want to drop $200 on a HF aluminum jack since I won't be using it often enough (and I've noticed that HF hydraulics die faster if you don't use them often).

Thanks for the tips on jack placement, Koda! I'm going to unbox it today and see how it all looks. Probably won't get to try'er'out till after the weekend since it's supposed to rain, though. Picked up a couple of 3 ton stands and rubber wheel chocks at HF today. Thinking of breaking the jack in by replacing the emergency brake pads, which are cracked and chipped (probably when the car got rear-ended while parked w/ the brake locked).

 

[koda2000]

Thanks all! Sounds like the Costco jack will do fine. Jack weight is an issue for me, so I didn't want one of the 100 lb steel jacks, and I didn't want to drop $200 on a HF aluminum jack since I won't be using it often enough (and I've noticed that HF hydraulics die faster if you don't use them often).

Thanks for the tips on jack placement, Koda! I'm going to unbox it today and see how it all looks. Probably won't get to try'er'out till after the weekend since it's supposed to rain, though. Picked up a couple of 3 ton stands and rubber wheel chocks at HF today. Thinking of breaking the jack in by replacing the emergency brake pads, which are cracked and chipped (probably when the car got rear-ended while parked w/ the brake locked).

Tip: Be careful when using a floor jack on the front lower control arm hooks, because when using a floor jack, either it or the truck need to be able to move a bit as the jack goes up (unlike the OE bottle jack that just goes straight up). If the jack or truck can't move the jack can slide off the hook. If doesn't usually hurt anything, but it was scare the crap outta ya. BTW, I've had my HF aluminum racing jacks for 16 years. I don't use them very often these days, but they still work great. Best jacks I've ever owned. I also have 3 Sears floor jacks - none of those work anymore.

Your parking brake shoe condition sounds normal. For some reason the linings tend to crack, break and fall off. Changing the parking brake shoes is a major PITA! If I ever have to do it again, I'll pull the axles first. There's just no room to work in there.

 

[SoNic67]

I hate those hooks. I never use them, they don't look safe to me. I put the 2.5 ton jack under the control arm (or under the torsion bar end).

 

[lobo411]

Been traveling, but I wanted to say thanks to all who replied!

Koda: the problem I've been having with my parking brake is that I have to get down to the last ratchet on the pedal to get it not to roll. I strained/sprained my left calf, which made it really painful for me to push the pedal hard enough lock the car down. I kinda don't want to do the brake shoes because I've heard about how obscenely horrible it is to do them, but would the situation improve if I did? Or should I try just adjusting the shoes?

It's been a while since I had the rotors off (I had to replace them about 3 years ago after they were gouged by a stuck caliper), but I think the shoes still had a good 1/8" on them, with some cracking but not much friction material missing. I didn't adjust the shoes when I replaced the rotors.

Generally, my hardware is in good shape. Little to no rust b/c this is a California/semi-desert car.

 

[koda2000]

if you have to push the pedal that far, you probably need to adjust the parking brake shoes so they're closer to the drums. there's a star wheel on the bottom (which you access from the rear backing plate). there should be a rubber plug you remove to get at the adjuster. if i remember correctly, you turn the star wheel up to push the shoes outward, you can do this with a screw driver or a brake spoon, it's slow going, but turn the shoes out until they just begin to drag on the drum.

 

[lobo411]

if you have to push the pedal that far, you probably need to adjust the parking brake shoes so they're closer to the drums. there's a star wheel on the bottom (which you access from the rear backing plate). there should be a rubber plug you remove to get at the adjuster. if i remember correctly, you turn the star wheel up to push the shoes outward, you can do this with a screw driver or a brake spoon, it's slow going, but turn the shoes out until they just begin to drag on the drum.

Sounds good! I'll give that a shot Saturday. Break in the new jack (with jackstands and probably some 4x6's for triple-safety) too. Thanks!

 

[MAS Tequila]

I use the Harbor Freight aluminum racing jack.

If you catch it on sale or with their coupon, you can get it for $59.99.

MT

 

[koda2000]

I use the Harbor Freight aluminum racing jack.

If you catch it on sale or with their coupon, you can get it for $59.99.

MT

That was my recommendation, but I believe he already bought a jack a Costco.

 

[lobo411]

Bah...spent 2 hrs on adjusting the parking brake this morning. 1 hr of that was spent trying to figure out where to put the jack/stands. The problem was that the jack pad was too big, so that dictated where the floor jack had to be under the rear axle, which meant that it was impossible to set up the jack stand under the rear axle. The jack wheel and the jack stand needed to be in the same place.

I ended up putting the jack stand under the rear leaf springs, where the shackle makes a direct line to the axle. Hopefully that was safe. If not, I may have to return the jack.

Then I spent an hour dealing with the parking brake adjusters. I raised the rear end, put the truck in neutral, and took off the parking brake, but then I realized I'd never be able to figure out when the parking brake pads were dragging. There's too much friction/resistance going on already, between the rotors/disc pads and the fact that you're still spinning the other wheel when you turn one wheel in neutral.

So I ended up just adjusting the star wheel two clicks on each side. I figure I'll see how much that helps, if any, and then add two more clicks the next time. So far it doesn't seem to have helped very much, if at all.

Kind of annoying. I didn't have to go through any of this. I could have slid under the truck and moved the adjuster without having to mess with a jack at all. 10 mins max. I wanted to do the job semi-right, but then I realized to do that meant taking off the calipers and rotors, and by that point hell...why not just replace the damn brake shoe?

Didn't work out like it was supposed to, but thanks for the tips anyway! I figure 2 clicks a day is pretty safe/conservative.

 

[koda2000]

Bah...spent 2 hrs on adjusting the parking brake this morning. 1 hr of that was spent trying to figure out where to put the jack/stands. The problem was that the jack pad was too big, so that dictated where the floor jack had to be under the rear axle, which meant that it was impossible to set up the jack stand under the rear axle. The jack wheel and the jack stand needed to be in the same place.

I ended up putting the jack stand under the rear leaf springs, where the shackle makes a direct line to the axle. Hopefully that was safe. If not, I may have to return the jack.

Then I spent an hour dealing with the parking brake adjusters. I raised the rear end, put the truck in neutral, and took off the parking brake, but then I realized I'd never be able to figure out when the parking brake pads were dragging. There's too much friction/resistance going on already, between the rotors/disc pads and the fact that you're still spinning the other wheel when you turn one wheel in neutral.

So I ended up just adjusting the star wheel two clicks on each side. I figure I'll see how much that helps, if any, and then add two more clicks the next time. So far it doesn't seem to have helped very much, if at all.

Kind of annoying. I didn't have to go through any of this. I could have slid under the truck and moved the adjuster without having to mess with a jack at all. 10 mins max. I wanted to do the job semi-right, but then I realized to do that meant taking off the calipers and rotors, and by that point hell...why not just replace the damn brake shoe?

Didn't work out like it was supposed to, but thanks for the tips anyway! I figure 2 clicks a day is pretty safe/conservative.

i don't really understand why you're having so many problems with the jack and safety stands, but 2 clicks at a time will take you forever. i'd go a minimum of 5 clicks at a time. you can also get a pretty good idea of how close you are by where the parking brake pedal gets harder to push. as far as jack and safety stand location, sometimes you just have to get creative to accomplish what you're trying to do. lifting/supporting from any secure location and having a few blocks of wood always helps. the rear spring perches are where Ford suggests you use their bottle jack, but it's not the only safe place to lift from.

BTW, if you think adjusting the shoes is an annoying exercise, try changing them (and you'd still need to adjust them when your done).

 

[swshawaii]

Agree koda. Easiest way I've found is release the parking brake and turn the star adjuster tight against the drum.
Loosen about 5-6 clicks and repeat the other side. Spray penetrant first and use a flat blade stubby screwdriver.

 

[J_C]

I don't get it. Whole drum brake job, even if it includes replacing a cylinder is a lot less annoying to me than something like the (SOHC) spark plugs. That is, so long as a line doesn't break so I don't have to make another trip to a parts store.

Main thing I keep in mind doing them is have a set of pliers with teeth in good shape so you get a great grip on the springs to get them on and off easier.

 

[koda2000]

I don't get it. Whole drum brake job, even if it includes replacing a cylinder is a lot less annoying to me than something like the (SOHC) spark plugs. That is, so long as a line doesn't break so I don't have to make another trip to a parts store.

Main thing I keep in mind doing them is have a set of pliers with teeth in good shape so you get a great grip on the springs to get them on and off easier.

we're not talking about drum brakes. we're talking about the parking brake that lives inside the rear disk brake rotor-hat. there is no wheel cylinder. it works on levers and springs. the setup is similar to a drum brake, but there's extra springs and the main problem is that there's no room to work behind the axle flange. I've changed these shoes before and found it to be a PITA due to the lack of room to work. not to mention the stupid shoe retainers, which you pretty much need to break to remove. the OP stated that his shoes still have lining material, so why replace them? BTW, I find the best tool for stretching brake springs is an old brake spring.

 

[lobo411]

i don't really understand why you're having so many problems with the jack and safety stands, but 2 clicks at a time will take you forever. i'd go a minimum of 5 clicks at a time. you can also get a pretty good idea of how close you are by where the parking brake pedal gets harder to push. as far as jack and safety stand location, sometimes you just have to get creative to accomplish what you're trying to do. lifting/supporting from any secure location and having a few blocks of wood always helps. the rear spring perches are where Ford suggests you use their bottle jack, but it's not the only safe place to lift from.

BTW, if you think adjusting the shoes is an annoying exercise, try changing them (and you'd still need to adjust them when your done).

The problem I was having with the jack was that there was really only one good place to put it on the rear axle, which was right under the axle vent hose. I wanted the jack stand to cradle the rear axle too, but the floor jack wheels and the jack stand base both needed the same space.

I thought about putting the jack under the leaf spring perch, but it had 4 protruding bolts and I didn't want them to get bent or tear up the rubber puck on the jack plate. Probably could have used a piece of wood to protect the rubber.

I looked up the jack/support points in Chilton's and saw that you can put support under the leaf spring pivot ends, but I felt it was a lot safer to have the support under the axle.

I'm glad that the star wheel moves the shoes so little...that should make it hard to overdo it! Anyway, the good news is that I did hear it move even with 2 clicks.

 

[lobo411]

Agree koda. Easiest way I've found is release the parking brake and turn the star adjuster tight against the drum.
Loosen about 5-6 clicks and repeat the other side. Spray penetrant first and use a flat blade stubby screwdriver.

Ya, that's the procedure in Haynes. Tighten until you get resistance, then loosen 8 clicks. I think it's really hard to figure out when you've got resistance from the parking brake vs when you're just doing the work of spinning the differential.

As long as I can get it to stay put without having to push the pedal *all* the way to the floor, I'm happy.