Jon And Sheri's Vitamin D Wagon

[Turdle]

A Zero will make it worse wont it. You need a 7 degree. Its free if you end up needing it. But mine are red.

The way I understand it the direction of correction with the wedges--more correction brings the pinion down further-or, twisting the axle rear ward.

Now if I was to install the wedges "upside down" it would rotate the axle forward 8 degrees from it's present position. The combination of the wild horse arm angle and radius bracket level will also move the pinion angle. For instance if the brackets hung lower it would create more caster and pinion angle



I'm going to try some 0 degree now, and may even try the 2 degree or 4 degree upside down.

 

[Turdle]

You gotta wait until you get springs in it to decide what to do.

Get the springs in, and have it sitting on jackstands with the wheels off at ride height. Make sure the front diff on stands is sitting were it would sit with wheels/tires on it. Not having it at perfect ride height with the suspension settled will throw off any kind of measurements.

Then measure your caster. If you're running 4 degree bushings and you get a 4-6 degree reading then you're good. However with the 4 degree bushings and say you're at 0 degrees caster then you know stepping up to the 7's will work.

Oh. Ok I will do it that way then. Thanks!

 

[Turdle]

I guess what I am getting at is it looks like the 4 degree bushings and "higher" bracket combined to give me way too much caster. I'll put it on the springs to check.

 

[james t]

Yea, right now its just a guessing game. With the ride height/ suspension drooped even an inch or two it will throw off your readings. You are basically trying to measure a board when you dont have the board yet. Gotta go to Home Depot first. :

Forget the pinion angle and go for the best caster setting. From what you say you want this thing driving nice on the street. You'll want 4-6 degrees caster and damn the pinion- itll be close enough once caster is set. No caster and it will death wobble... to much caster and it'll road walk real bad. Once caster is set then you can cycle it and see how the driveshaft is going to act. It may need to be lengthened.

 

[black91EB]

what did your axle come out of? I thought all the c-wedge d-44s were high-pinion.

 

[james t]

what did your axle come out of? I thought all the c-wedge d-44s were high-pinion.

Nope, early Bronco was 60" wide, had weld-on wedges and was low pinion.

 

[IZwack]

Yeah you have to measure at ride height - that axle looks lower than ride height.

EDIT -- wow I'm late. didnt know there was another page.

 

[Trckmagik]

The way I understand it the direction of correction with the wedges--more correction brings the pinion down further-or, twisting the axle rear ward.

Now if I was to install the wedges "upside down" it would rotate the axle forward 8 degrees from it's present position. The combination of the wild horse arm angle and radius bracket level will also move the pinion angle. For instance if the brackets hung lower it would create more caster and pinion angle



I'm going to try some 0 degree now, and may even try the 2 degree or 4 degree upside down.

I understood it opposite of what you think. The point of the C's degree is as you lift the vehicle it should be twisting the axle upward toward the motor.

Get it at ride height, but I think you are going to need the 7's.

 

[james t]

Jon is sorta right.

Think of a bone stock early Bronco, and lifting it with taller springs ONLY.

Since the radius arm to frame mounts are unchanged, the pinion will point upwards more and the caster will go negative with just lift springs. In other words, it will be the opposite of a motorcycle fork. The more lift you run, the bigger number you need on the degree wedges.

This is why with X, Y, or Z lift springs and nothing else changed, you run 7 degree bushings to get everything back to stock.

Jon however is running a weird axle with weird arms on a weird truck with weird ride height and there is no data to show exactly what he needs. This is the reason why he needs to install a known degree bushing, get the suspension settled, and measure for reference.

In other words, throw in "bushing X", set the damn thing down on the springs with the hub the same distance off the floor as if it has tires on it, and check caster. We can advise from there.

Hope this all makes sense.

 

[Dan Whitaker]

Jon is sorta right.

Think of a bone stock early Bronco, and lifting it with taller springs ONLY.

Since the radius arm to frame mounts are unchanged, the pinion will point upwards more and the caster will go negative with just lift springs. In other words, it will be the opposite of a motorcycle fork. The more lift you run, the bigger number you need on the degree wedges.

This is why with X, Y, or Z lift springs and nothing else changed, you run 7 degree bushings to get everything back to stock.

Jon however is running a weird axle with weird arms on a weird truck with weird ride height and there is no data to show exactly what he needs. This is the reason why he needs to install a known degree bushing, get the suspension settled, and measure for reference.

In other words, throw in "bushing X", set the damn thing down on the springs with the hub the same distance off the floor as if it has tires on it, and check caster. We can advise from there.

Hope this all makes sense.

All the stuff is weird on the Explorer because Jon is weird. Yep it all makes sense :

 

[Turdle]

Still trying to get my coil mounts back from the machinist.

 

[Turdle]

So I went again to his shop and he was just finishing them up.

I reached for my wallet and he said "get outta here"

Wow.
Well, I have them in the oven now to replace the coating he shaved off.

 

[Turdle]

OK I think I found a short cut-

Since I am using the same springs and mounts, and I did measure the spring length at ride height before I tore it apart.

At ride height there is 17 1/2" between the spring mounts. This includes the upper jeep spacer and insulator

I jacked the front axle to this level .

Then I measured the slope to my driveway at 4 degrees. I then used a plumb bob, a level , bevel gauge and protractor to come up with a total of 15 degrees caster on the knuckle

subtract the 4 degrees of drive way slope and you have 11 degrees.

Considering these are 4 degree wedges, going to 0 degree should work out exactly right---with a result of 7 degrees

I wonder if using 2 degree wedges upside down would result in 5 degrees caster?

Sound ok?

Edit-the present angle had to be way off, as the drive shaft was limiting droop so bad I could not get the springs back in , it was hitting the cross member.

The stock arms with little if any caster gave no issues like this during dis assembly. It's like I put on the long arms with 4 degrees added and lost 2" of droop due to the excessive caster--lol

 

[Turdle]

I did the math over and over in my head and decided to go for it. I installed the 2 degree wedges "backwards" or upside down if you prefer, and now have a caster angle of 5 degrees.

The pinion angle looks much better now. It was 6 degrees off eh?

 

[Turdle]

Well, it would seem like powder coating the springs and lower spring seats was not a good idea. Now the springs don't fit over them. The truck's weight wouldn't even pop them on. Time for a little grinding I guess.

 

[Dan Whitaker]

This is getting funny. Not the problems but the asking & answering yourself.

It's bad enough to talk to yourself but to do it on an open forum is priceless.

 

[Albino 94LTD]

Well, it would seem like powder coating the springs and lower spring seats was not a good idea. Now the springs don't fit over them. The truck's weight wouldn't even pop them on. Time for a little grinding I guess.

Geeze, how much powder did you use?????

It is more likely the extended period of heat affected the diameter of the coils. Maybe put them back in the oven and warm them up and re-install??

PUT THE GRINDER AWAY

 

[IZwack]

PUT THE GRINDER AWAY

He didn't say he was going to use a grinding wheel, could be a [knotted] wire wheel

 

[Dan Whitaker]

He didn't say he was going to use a grinding wheel, could be a [knotted] wire wheel

Knowing Jon I doubt it

That's what he gets for "Blinging" an off road rig :

 

[Turdle]

Geeze, how much powder did you use?????

It is more likely the extended period of heat affected the diameter of the coils. Maybe put them back in the oven and warm them up and re-install??

PUT THE GRINDER AWAY

I just needed to strip away a bit of the powdercoat is all.

If you think about it, the springs were a tight fit when I dis assembled them. I had to pound the springs off the lower mounts.


Adding 3mil (.003) to a tubular surface will increase the diameter .006 on an already tight fit. Then remember they were coated again after machining-so say .010 was probably added all together. Oh, then there is the .006 of coating on the inside of the coils--

Anyway-it is all back together now. I have pics of droop and ride height without wheels, then my batteries died so when they recharge I will get pics with wheels on.



Time for a shower and a test drive!!!