lift/shock questions

[Xeek]

ive already done the rear SOA, now im trying to match the front.
ive got a lift on the way:

rough country 4" drop brackets, coils, radius arm brackets, bolts and nuts
skyjacker pitman arm (4" drop)

next i plan on f150 seats to get me the rest to match the SOA.

so the questions are, with 4" lift and f150 seats, do i need any kind of anti-sway bar extended links?
and what shocks would be needed for this? give me a good brand also(but keep it fairly cheap!) and stock length shocks for the rear.


anything else im missing?




ps anyone have a set of f150 coil seats to give away?

 

[Xeek]

no one? mainly concered about front shocks length and sway bar

 

[Maniak]

Go to gorancho, and download their full catalog.

Find the stock shocks for the Explorer to get the upper and lower mount codes. Now search through their list of shocks and find some that are about 4" longer than what you have now (or what they show for stock)..

Just make sure the compressed length is going to be short enough so you don't top out the shock too.

~Mark

 

[4x4junkie]

When I was running Rancho front shocks on my Ranger (4" lift), I was using pt# 9115. I finally got rid of them for some KYB #KG5431 (it looks like).

Both are ~20" extended length, ~12.5" collapsed IIRC. If you don't have coil keepers on your buckets, be sure to get some, as a 20" shock will allow full droop travel and if the coil isn't properly secured, well...

And yes, check that your bumpstops are positioned correctly to keep from bottoming out the shocks on compression (lower them down if necessary).

Been a long time since I messed with the swaybar, though I seem to recall it worked OK with the stock end links on it at 4" lift. Just get longer links for it if you need to (Jeep ones will fit).

What SJ pitman arm? The #FA600? (true 4" drop), or the FA400 (claimed to be a 4" drop, but is only 2")?

 

[Xeek]

mark, you just made my brain fry trying to look through all that lol

i have no idea what pitman. i wont get the lift in my hands until next week. more then likely ill need a different one to match 5.5". fa800?
and as i said, im adding f150 coil seats to get 5.5". not just 4", or else id just contact rough country and get everything i need still for plain 4". the f150 seats being added to it are my main reason for asking all this.

ill prob have to buy bump stops atleast, im pretty sure its not coming with those

 

[Maniak]

Whats a bump stop? I use the airbox and inner part of the fender (metal) as the bump stops. I'm use 32" Rancho shocks up front (thanks to the f-250 shock mounts) so I have gobs o up travel.

So, If I understand this right.. Your needing front shocks for "around" 5"-5.5" of lift using the stock shock mounts and your combining f-150 spring seats with 4" lift coils.. Ill take a quick gander through the catalog and see if I can find them..

As for the pitman arm, I can't remember which one to use for that big of a lift. Heck, I can't even remember which one we have. I'll do a quick search of EF and see if I can find which one I have for our 4" or so lift.

If you don't get enough drop on your pitman arm or get a different kind of steering setup you'll get a bunch of pump steer as the suspension moves around.

~Mark

 

[Maniak]

Ok, I did some looking through Ranchos 9000xl shocks..

for 2.5" of lift, they show an 999136 shock
999136 s42 upper mount, L1 lower mount, 11.490" compressed, 16.8 extended

I found one that should work assuming you keep the same amount of total shock travel.

999179 s42 upper mount, L1 lower mount, 14.250 compressed, 22.310 extended

So, You want "around" 3" more shock (compressed) than the Rancho 2.5" kit comes with. 999179 is the best shock I saw to since almost 3" longer compressed, and has a little extra extended length beyond the 3" extra.

~Mark

 

[Anime]

With the stock radius arms and drop brackets, you probably won't be getting enough travel that long travel shocks will be an issue, but it'll probably be okay to get 4"-5.5" lift long travel shocks now, so you can have them when you get longer radius arms.

You definitely want the 4" drop PA with the 5.5", and you'll probably want a steering damper in the meantime until you can upgrade the steering, too.

Sway bars are pretty silly once you have that much lift, I say the best thing to do is remove the sway bars, and get REALLY good shocks instead (like the Rancho 9000XL, Bilstein 5100, etc.). Sometimes two shocks per side in the front does the trick as well, but one really good one that costs twice as much as two cheaper ones can be better. For a daily driver a sway bar might still make sense on the street, so if you want to keep it, you can make/buy some quick disconnects, and flip the front bar upside down if you need an extra inch or so for it to sit level.

 

[Xeek]

damn those 9000xls are expensive! $100 each :/
thats about what id need then, i cant find anything close in the 5000 series that has the right mounts.

im starting to think about not doing the f150 seats, or any spacer for that matter. 4" front with 5.5" SOA rear cant look that bad right?
ive been driving around with stock 0" lift front and SOA'd rear for a month, talk about rake lol

ultimately ill be putting a d44 under there when this breaks or i find one locally sometime.

 

[Maniak]

damn those 9000xls are expensive! $100 each :/
thats about what id need then, i cant find anything close in the 5000 series that has the right mounts.

im starting to think about not doing the f150 seats, or any spacer for that matter. 4" front with 5.5" SOA rear cant look that bad right?
ive been driving around with stock 0" lift front and SOA'd rear for a month, talk about rake lol

ultimately ill be putting a d44 under there when this breaks or i find one locally sometime.

I'll duck after saying this, but you could do a sloped body lift. I knows its been done on here but it is very controversial..

And yes, the rs9000xl can be pricey, but being able to adjust the dampening is nice. Sometimes you see sales where if you buy 4 shocks they will give you the in cab air adjuster free.

~Mark

 

[Xeek]

this lift is gonna take awhile at this rate lol
found em on ebay; $88.74 each, $187.46 total
f150 seats(if i ever find them): $??
aussie, manual hubs and prob a different pitman: $$$$$


i dont really haul anything so having a ride control thingymajig inside isnt worth it. the knob on the shocks themselfs are fine. i mean i have to get out to put it in 4x4 and (future)lock the hubs anyway, i can turn em up/down then lol

 

[Maniak]

this lift is gonna take awhile at this rate lol
found em on ebay; $88.74 each, $187.46 total
f150 seats(if i ever find them): $??
aussie, manual hubs and prob a different pitman: $$$$$


i dont really haul anything so having a ride control thingymajig inside isnt worth it. the knob on the shocks themselfs are fine. i mean i have to get out to put it in 4x4 and (future)lock the hubs anyway, i can turn em up/down then lol

If you need a set of hubs, I can sell you one of my spare sets of manual hubs for $65 shipped (assuming your in the lower 48).. You still need to get your own lock nuts, but those are pretty cheap.

~Mark

 

[Anime]

You can get 1 3/8" I.D. washers (3" O.D. or slightly larger) that are about 1/4" thick, stack 'em 4-5 high and have them welded, and there's your extra inch of front lift for under 20 bucks. Just mount them the same as the F-150 spacers but use the stock lower spring seat.

A SOA can give less than 5.5" lift if the springs sag, so if you haven't already, you could swap the leafs side to side to see if that gives a little extra drop too, or using 2 door springs (NOT monoleafs) on a 4 door seems to lower it a bit and give slightly more flex as well.

Sloped body lifts are for idiots. Obviously the body is going to eventually slide in the direction of the slope, and either bend the bolts or just shear the things off in the worst possible case. Sloping the body to make it look like the suspension sits level still doesn't fix the problem, and really just makes it worse since the suspension isn't fixed and won't perform as designed. The term 'sloped body lift' is just a way for the lazy people who do them to fool themselves about the danger of doing it, and dupe others into doing it as well. 'unsafe body lift', 'improper body lift' and 'look what I tried when I only had half the parts from two different body lift kits' just make the reality too obvious.

The in-cab ride adjustment is probably the most awesome thing about the Ranchos. Turning knobs on 4 shocks gets old (and just wait until you break one off to find out how fun dealing with that is), but adjusting the ride on the fly in the cab is endless fun.

You are probably better off doing it as cheap as possible and not investing money in temporary upgrades if your near-future plans are for a D44 SAS. Then you can lay out what you've saved for everything involved in that.

 

[Xeek]

i think i would need 6 of washers those then. i had heard about that, but forgot it.

i wont touch a body lift, at all. not considering it. not even a 1" all the way around, nope.

and yes springs sag, but regardless you still get 5.5-6 no matter what. but compared to new stock sua ones, you may only gain 2" if their really bad.
my truck sat pretty level with sua so im sure i got pretty close to the max lift. if im higher slightly in the front, thats ok. gonna need to with big tires since its the turning axle.

the controller may be fun, but im not after getting one. i dont have money to blow on it now. if i did id have 1 tons going under it.
does it raise and lower the truck at all at the highest/lowest settings? would be fun at a red light to get some attention lol



mark, ill consider your hubs. but im mainly after an aussie and gears, since its a major pita to take that back off to add em later on




im getting antsy to get this lift delivered lol

 

[Anime]

The TTB tends to give close to 1.5x the lift of whatever spacers are used, so if you use spacers that are 2" high, you'd get 3" of lift. I'd suggest just using 4 spacers for about an inch of height, that will give you 1.5" of lift. Besides, if you go TOO high in the front, the rear will look like it's sagging. Plus there are always the alignment issues, and using spacers to lift really high comes at the expense of suspension droop.

You could always get a Daystar body mount kit to restore the body height. It adds about 0.25" of lift, mostly because the polyurethane is firmer than the rubber. It's a PITA to remove the stock mounts though, and buying all new hardware is pretty expensive, too. It's the best repair if any body mounts are falling apart though.

The switch just affects damping, not lift height. Only the springs (or air or hydraulics) do that. Basically just makes the ride plush soft like a luxury car or rock hard like a dump truck. It is somewhat gimmicky, but it has it's uses. Think being able to hit a bunch of whoops no prob on super soft, then turn it to super hard and take a turn at high speed. Maybe not all that practical for a trail rig, but still fun.

My take is, if you want to scrape by on a budget, research other Ford Truck shocks (like from F-150s and the like), find another with the lower eye mount and top threaded mount, and get one long enough that suits your needs. You could get cheapy yellow Monroes (Sometimes Sears has 'em for 50% off, or you can buy online at Advance Auto and get ~40% off with online coupons) in the meantime, and wait until you can save up enough to buy the shocks you want when the swap is done.

 

[4x4junkie]

ultimately ill be putting a d44 under there when this breaks or i find one locally sometime.

If you're planning on breaking your D35, I wouldn't even consider a D44 as an upgrade... I'd make the jump straight to 1-tons if that's the case (the D35 and D44 have the exact same weak spot (the shafts), the D44 gets you bigger brakes is about all).

As for the pitman arm, I would suggest the Skyjacker #FA600 drop arm if you want your alignment to be manageable. It's a little more $$$ than your standard run-of-the-mill arms, but the savings in tire wear alone will make it more than pay for itself 3× over after even as little as 30,000 miles.

Also (sorry, forgot to put it in my post) the shocks I mentioned are applicable to a stock-height '79 F-150 or Bronco 4WD without the "Quad-shock" option (~20" ext length, ~12.5" coll). So that should give you something to look 'em up by.

Sloped body lifts are for idiots. Obviously the body is going to eventually slide in the direction of the slope, and either bend the bolts or just shear the things off in the worst possible case. Sloping the body to make it look like the suspension sits level still doesn't fix the problem, and really just makes it worse since the suspension isn't fixed and won't perform as designed. The term 'sloped body lift' is just a way for the lazy people who do them to fool themselves about the danger of doing it, and dupe others into doing it as well. 'unsafe body lift', 'improper body lift' and 'look what I tried when I only had half the parts from two different body lift kits' just make the reality too obvious.

I don't see what the issue is with a sloped body lift. Sure, there are better ways to do it, however it being sloped ain't gonna cause the body & frame to shift, it's secured just the same way as any normal body lift would be (infact because half the bolts are shorter, it theoretically should be less likely to shift around). The stresses of normal driving are 50× greater than anything the slope angle might impose.

 

[Anime]

I don't see what the issue is with a sloped body lift. Sure, there are better ways to do it, however it being sloped ain't gonna cause the body & frame to shift, it's secured just the same way as any normal body lift would be (infact because half the bolts are shorter, it theoretically should be less likely to shift around). The stresses of normal driving are 50× greater than anything the slope angle might impose.

I don't want to get off topic or derail the thread, and Xeek already said he won't be doing a body lift of any sort, but I'll post a quick reply for the benefit of future searchers.

The problem with a sloped body lift is mainly that it uses components designed for a vertical load, and in one way or another, makes them see more of a diagonal load, or even worse, puts the majority of the load on an edge instead of the entire top/bottom surface. No matter which method of modifying the spacers is used, they can't be square on top (body) and bottom (frame). Unless maybe you bend them. Using an angled bushing/body mount/whatever doesn't change anything, either.

Basically, no matter how much it's modified to look like it fits, a 'sloped' body lift still has the properties of using different height spacers going from one end of the body to the other. The guy who did the first 'sloped' body lift like this with 2" spacers on one end and 3" spacers on the other, then cutting the rest in the middle down by 1/4" each and bolting the whole thing together like usual found out why it was a bad idea the first time he had to nail the brakes in a panic stop...the body slid, the bolts bent, and lucky for him the force wasn't enough to rip the bolts through the mounts or tear through the body. Worst case the body would have gone clean off the frame.

I'm sure it looks great standing still. The problem is when the body/frame connection sees tremendous horizontal forces, as in braking, collisions, etc.



Back OT if you can get 1-tons, go for it. the D44/Ford 8.8 has been trail proven though. Sometimes it's more about what you can get or afford than what you want, but if you have something particular in mind, you can probably save money in the long run by going from the D35 straight to whatever it is, rather than going from the 35, to the 44, to the 1-ton. Same for the lift.

 

[4x4junkie]

The problem with a sloped body lift is mainly that it uses components designed for a vertical load, and in one way or another, makes them see more of a diagonal load, or even worse, puts the majority of the load on an edge instead of the entire top/bottom surface. No matter which method of modifying the spacers is used, they can't be square on top (body) and bottom (frame). Unless maybe you bend them. Using an angled bushing/body mount/whatever doesn't change anything, either.

Basically, no matter how much it's modified to look like it fits, a 'sloped' body lift still has the properties of using different height spacers going from one end of the body to the other. The guy who did the first 'sloped' body lift like this with 2" spacers on one end and 3" spacers on the other, then cutting the rest in the middle down by 1/4" each and bolting the whole thing together like usual found out why it was a bad idea the first time he had to nail the brakes in a panic stop...the body slid, the bolts bent, and lucky for him the force wasn't enough to rip the bolts through the mounts or tear through the body. Worst case the body would have gone clean off the frame.

I still disagree... The amount of angle on the mounts is only one or two degrees at the very most (an amount the rubber bushings will very easily absorb). Sounds a lot more to me like whoever this was didn't attach his bolts properly.
But anyway... [/derail]

 

[Xeek]

from what i get its around a 1.5 degree angle. the mounts can flex to the slope, yes. but theyre made it fit something completely level. if they were made for sloping the body they would be shaped that way. since theyre not its constantly putting more pressure on one end. even the bolts would be at an angle so they wouldnt sit perfectly flat.

i wouldnt say the body would fly off the first hard brake you gave it, but over years it would wear the bushings out faster. kinda sorta like camber on tires.




and as far as back on topic, i think ill go with the washers, so what would be 1" worth of them. and along with those ranchos, ill just get em now and not waste money on cheaper ones if i was just gonna upgrade anyway.

and not im not planning on breaking the d35, but if it happens then ill get a d44. looks better and would be less challenging to lift.
but i am always looking for d44s, if i find one that fits the criteria and is cheap enough, im getting it.

tons are only if i win a bunch of money, cause for my uses they arent really needed

 

[Anime]

What Xeek said. The mounts may bend to the angle the bolts are now at, but that doesn't mean the force is even. It's still being concentrated on a small part of the bolt and washers and nut and mounts and body, rather than the entire thing like with normal mounting.

I fail to see the point in doing a sloped body lift anyway. Why bother when it's cheaper and easier to just throw ten bucks in washers under the front springs and get a level suspension? Sometimes it seems people just want to be right about something and get others to do it to keep up the act that it's cool and safe, rather than just accept the reality. That's where sloped body lifts are at, right there with throw-HID-bulbs-in-a-halogen-housing-conversions and other bright ideas.


You'd probably be best off getting a stack of 10 washers or something, then doing a test fit of 3, 4, 5 stacked and checking what the lift height is after it settles. Then once you figure out what gives the height you want, weld 'em up.

The Ranchos for the stock TTB radius arms might be different than the shocks you get for a solid axle, that's why I suggested the cheaper shocks if you were planning on a D44 anytime soon. But if you're sticking with the D35 TTB, go for the shocks. My guess is you'll be looking for extended radius arms after that though.