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M90 rebuild (rudy)

Also i wonder if running 2 steps colder(BR7EF) of a plug is correct for runing e50..i ran that plug because of boost levels and nitrous but wonder if i need that cold when using e50??maybe my plugs are fouling out with the amount of gas being injected. They are a non-protruding tip so i could see why maybe..maybe i should go back to just one step colder,a Tr6 plug
 



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It wouldn't hurt to try. Plug fouling could be the culprit, for sure.
 






It wouldn't hurt to try. Plug fouling could be the culprit, for sure.

Ill swap to a tr6...my guessing is during cold running,when it was super rich,it fouled a plug today.

Doesnt explain why its running rich then lean during open loop though. .could the tune just be that far off but not for closed loop warm running ??

This motor was already dyno tuned,i dont understand why changing injectors and to e50 effected it that much..i was told he could just change the injector aize and target A/F..

All this makes me want to switch to 1/4 horse and tune myself..with the help of you all of course. .crazy to look back years ago and see how much everyone has learned and the things we are all doing now..lol
 






Aww well found one answer..explains that..so my maf counts are just wayy off or my maf is bad


"""Nothing adjusts when the ecu is in open loop.. it's using the fuel tables and the maf. the o2 only adjusts when the motor is warmer than the min ect scalar for closed loop. the o2 can adjust up to 30% but it's not ideal to make it work this hard.. the tune (maf) should be much closer than 30% off. when it's dead on im sure it's the o2 making it dead on.. if you take a datalog of the truck running and send it to me i can show you want you're seeing.""""
 






Can you datalog?
I'd like you to send me a datalog so I can see if I can make any sense of whats happening?
 






Can you datalog?
I'd like you to send me a datalog so I can see if I can make any sense of whats happening?

I cant..i wish i could.i would've switched to 1/4 horse if i knew id run into issues. .i just assumed that $100 switching fee would have got this motor really close,knew i would have to go back in for fine adjustments once new motor was in but really wanted it very close to break it in...

Not the end of world as im sure he can get it 100% once i bring the truck in but may take bringing it in now and again once motor is done..costing me $250 each time:mad:
 






It could still be plug fouling causing your issue also. This throws the o2 sensors for a loop.
 






It could still be plug fouling causing your issue also. This throws the o2 sensors for a loop.

I have stock piled Tr6 and BR7EF plugs..got about 50 of each online.they were on sell
 






Pretty sure its a bad plug..just started it to pull it into the shop for the night and it went straight to lean.didnt do its normal rich then lean bs..also felt a miss..ill swap plugs tomorrow
 






Lets hope its an easy solution.
 






Ranger

Did you find anything out?
Sorry I just got here, my shift has been changing back and forth the last couple of days. Today am, tomorrow pm shift. fun stuff. lol.

As far as the Maf, everything starts with the Maf and rpm (which comes from crank sensor). So at certain rpm and loads(load is calculated from Maf) you will get a certain fuel pulsewidth. Then the variables get added, intake air temps, ECT, TPS and others. After all that if the vehicle is in closed loop, then the O2's report back to the PCM and the PCM will adjust short term fuel trim. If STFT stays far from 0% then Long term fuel trims will adjust and make STFT go back to switching around 0%. (normal fuel trims are -5% to +5% with 0 being preferred).

Closed loop can happen before the engine is fully warmed up because of O2 sensor heaters. Sometimes closed loop can be achieved in minutes.

Any misfire can lead to a false lean reading, fuel and oxygen goes into the cylinder and if not burnt fuel and oxygen comes out. The O2 sensors only see oxygen not fuel. So the O2 sensors see all that oxygen that was not burnt in the cylinder and think it was lean, they report to the PCM which adds fuel. That wont fix a misfire so with the introduction to OBD2, the misfire monitor was added to the programming in the PCM. If a misfire is detected, the system will go into open loop and ignore the O2 sensors since they can not be trusted during a misfire.

Hope it is just a spark plug.

Also, I don't recommend driving any custom vehicle until it is finished being tuned. Of course you have to drive it to get datalogs for tuning though.
 






Did you find anything out?
Sorry I just got here, my shift has been changing back and forth the last couple of days. Today am, tomorrow pm shift. fun stuff. lol.

As far as the Maf, everything starts with the Maf and rpm (which comes from crank sensor). So at certain rpm and loads(load is calculated from Maf) you will get a certain fuel pulsewidth. Then the variables get added, intake air temps, ECT, TPS and others. After all that if the vehicle is in closed loop, then the O2's report back to the PCM and the PCM will adjust short term fuel trim. If STFT stays far from 0% then Long term fuel trims will adjust and make STFT go back to switching around 0%. (normal fuel trims are -5% to +5% with 0 being preferred).

Closed loop can happen before the engine is fully warmed up because of O2 sensor heaters. Sometimes closed loop can be achieved in minutes.

Any misfire can lead to a false lean reading, fuel and oxygen goes into the cylinder and if not burnt fuel and oxygen comes out. The O2 sensors only see oxygen not fuel. So the O2 sensors see all that oxygen that was not burnt in the cylinder and think it was lean, they report to the PCM which adds fuel. That wont fix a misfire so with the introduction to OBD2, the misfire monitor was added to the programming in the PCM. If a misfire is detected, the system will go into open loop and ignore the O2 sensors since they can not be trusted during a misfire.

Hope it is just a spark plug.

Also, I don't recommend driving any custom vehicle until it is finished being tuned. Of course you have to drive it to get datalogs for tuning though.

Haven't had time to swap plugs but im pretty sure that was my issue. .i didnt know a foul pug would read lean.

With cold start though, its obviously off..

I agree i probably shouldnt be driving it till i can get it in for a full dyno tune..we thought since this setup was dyno tuned before and all that changed was injectors and e50,that we could get the tune very close..when its warm i haven't had any issues, just feels like it could use more timing..
 












which will lead to a dart block eventually :D

Lol hey if they made one i would have bought it by now and not be avoiding the inevitable :mattmoon:
 






Any of you guys remember the cartoon called 'the Tick'?
In the infamous words of the evil midnight bomber "Boom Baby, Boom"
LOL. I loved that series.

The more I read, to save blocks, pull timing at the peak of the torque curve, then add timing back in as rpm's increase saves blocks.

JD, have you ever heard of a cologne block splitting? If so, I can't imagine you have a pic?
 






Any of you guys remember the cartoon called 'the Tick'?
In the infamous words of the evil midnight bomber "Boom Baby, Boom"
LOL. I loved that series.

The more I read, to save blocks, pull timing at the peak of the torque curve, then add timing back in as rpm's increase saves blocks.

JD, have you ever heard of a cologne block splitting? If so, I can't imagine you have a pic?

No but im about to goggle it..
 












Any of you guys remember the cartoon called 'the Tick'?
In the infamous words of the evil midnight bomber "Boom Baby, Boom"
LOL. I loved that series.

The more I read, to save blocks, pull timing at the peak of the torque curve, then add timing back in as rpm's increase saves blocks.

JD, have you ever heard of a cologne block splitting? If so, I can't imagine you have a pic?


You all talking about like the 302 ohv blocks?? Are they considered a cologne block? Ive never seen or heard of a 4.0 cologne block splitting..yet
 






Ive never seen or heard of a 4.0 cologne block splitting..yet

Me either. I did look, but couldn't find any info. That's a good thing.
Only issues are what we know about (heads).

I was just kinda wondering if you had seen something in your research.
 



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i think the only reason why he cant find anything is because nobody has ever gone that nuts with a 4L OHV
 






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