Moonroof Will Not Close

[HMayes]

@HMayes

Get a chance to look at it yet? Any updates?

I haven't yet. Busy week (wife had a baby boy!) I plan to test it this weekend.

 

[sheltonfilms]

I haven't yet. Busy week (wife had a baby boy!) I plan to test it this weekend.

Congratulations! I hope when you test it, it turns out it's yours.............

 

[HMayes]

Congratulations! I hope when you test it, it turns out it's yours.............

Hahahahahaha. Touché. Luckily people say he looks just like me. I don't know if that's an insult to him or me (is he that ugly or do I look like a baby?).

 

[HMayes]

Here are my results:

Push tilt up:
12 and 3: closed
12 and 8: open (fail)


Pull tilt down:
12 and 3: closed
12 and 6: open (fail)


Push slide up
12 and 6: closed

Pull slide down
12 and 8: closed


Push shade up:
12 and 4 closed


Pull shade down
12 and 9 closed

What's interesting is the tilt switch fails but the slide switch doesn't. And my slide switch does not cause anything to happen with the moonroof. Ideas?

 

[sheltonfilms]

Here are my results:

Push tilt up:
12 and 3: closed
12 and 8: open (fail)


Pull tilt down:
12 and 3: closed
12 and 6: open (fail)

Sorry Fords service procedure is wrong. 12 and 8 show closed circuit when pulled tilt down not up and 12 and 6 are closed when tilt is pushed up not down. Just checked on my Ex.

Next thing to do is check the roof opening module for voltage. In the opening where you pulled the switch panel assembly there is a 14 cavity connector towards the rear of that opening. Check pins 1 (Violet/Red) and 2 (Gray/Blue) for battery voltage (set Multimeter to DC volts and ground 1 lead and probe the pins with the other).

Also check the ground of this connector at pin 4 (black). Keep 1 multimeter lead grounded, switch to measuring Ohms and probe pin 4. If 3 ohms or less then there is good continuity to ground.

 

[HMayes]

Sorry Fords service procedure is wrong. 12 and 8 show closed circuit when pulled tilt down not up and 12 and 6 are closed when tilt is pushed up not down. Just checked on my Ex.

Next thing to do is check the roof opening module for voltage. In the opening where you pulled the switch panel assembly there is a 14 cavity connector towards the rear of that opening. Check pins 1 (Violet/Red) and 2 (Gray/Blue) for battery voltage (set Multimeter to DC volts and ground 1 lead and probe the pins with the other).

Also check the ground of this connector at pin 4 (black). Keep 1 multimeter lead grounded, switch to measuring Ohms and probe pin 4. If 3 ohms or less then there is good continuity to ground.

Ahhh. Interesting. I checked just for kicks and my switch does behave like yours. I found the 14 pin connector. Pin 1 shows 14.4 volts. Pin 2 shows 14.4 volts.

Ground pin 4 would jump between 1 and 15 ohms and OL (overload, which is the default state for ohms on my Klein MM300 multimeter when there's no contact), but I suspect that's because I couldn't find a good ground. I was grounding against the driver side door latch screws which are painted black. I just scratched them to make contact. What should I do next? Starting to wonder if the glass motor is bad? Although I've read the shade motor is supposed to activate when opening the glass using the slide switch, which doesn't happen for me.

ETA:
I don't know if this adds any useful information, but I checked the 14 pin connector while the vehicle was running. I figured the Vehicle had to be on to see supply voltage on pins 1 and 2. After doing this and reassembling, the shade switch would only close and open the shade on the rear section of the moonroof. It refused to close the shade over the front section of the moonroof. Stopping and starting the car again returned the shade switch to normal operation.

 

[sheltonfilms]

With the sunglass holder/switch assembly down try wiggling the connector at the front and back while trying to actuate everything. (see if there is maybe bad wire somewhere)

 

[HMayes]

Ahhh. Interesting. I checked just for kicks and my switch does behave like yours. I found the 14 pin connector. Pin 1 shows 14.4 volts. Pin 2 shows 14.4 volts.

Ground pin 4 would jump between 1 and 15 ohms and OL (overload, which is the default state for ohms on my Klein MM300 multimeter when there's no contact), but I suspect that's because I couldn't find a good ground. I was grounding against the driver side door latch screws which are painted black. I just scratched them to make contact. What should I do next? Starting to wonder if the glass motor is bad? Although I've read the shade motor is supposed to activate when opening the glass using the slide switch, which doesn't happen for me.

With the sunglass holder/switch assembly down try wiggling the connector at the front and back while trying to actuate everything. (see if there is maybe bad wire somewhere)

getting nothing. Pulled the assembly down and tried all 3 switches in both directions while wiggling the connector. Shade works normally as it always has.

 

[sheltonfilms]

Ok do continuity checks for breaks in wire between front connector (12 pin) and the connector at the rear.

Pin 5 rear (VT-WH) to pin 6 front (VT_WH)
Pin 6 rear (VT/BN) to pin 8 front (VT/BN)
Pin 12 rear to (YE/ORG) to pin 12 front (YE/ORG)

 

[sheltonfilms]

Also check all the rear pins listed above (5,6,12) for continuity to ground (shorts)

 

[HMayes]

Also check all the rear pins listed above (5,6,12) for continuity to ground (shorts)

Hmmm I might have found something. All of the pin to pin tests passed. However the pin to ground tests all failed. I just want to say explicitly what I did to be sure I did it right. I put an alligator clip on one lead and clipped it to the rim of the 12v plug) that should be a ground, yes?). I then put the other lead on each REAR pin you named to check for continuity. All failed. I did test the ground connection by scratching a bolt on the door latch with the multimeter lead and it did indicate continuity.

Ideas? Thank you so much for your help thus far.

 

[sheltonfilms]

If they didn't show continuity to ground that's good which means that the wires aren't shorted to ground.

I know the shade works but just to make sure lets check the power and ground feeds.

Make sure the vehicle is turned on and look at the 14 pin rear connector. Make sure you have voltage at pin 1 (VT/RD) and Pin 2 (GY/BU).

Also check pin 4 (black) for continuity to ground.

If these tests pass then it sounds like the motor. Motor is $77 on Tasca Parts and you have to remove the a-pillars, b-pillars, and sunvisor and have the front of the head liner sag down a bit. Motor for glass is pretty much right above the driver side sunvisor and may or may not be a little bit rear ward of the visor.

You may be able to see it through the overhead console opening.

If you have good line of sight to the metal body of the motor I would grab a long rod/screwdriver, etc and hold it to it and tap it with a hammer. Sometimes these motors hit a dead spot and a simple smack will bring it back to life.

If none of this works instead of buying a motor right off the bat you can swap the shade motor with the glass motor since they are the same part number and see if the shade stops working and the glass works. Note if you do this you will have to reinitialize the motors first and since the glass rely's on the shade being open you may have to test with the shade already retracted.

I think you will have good luck with the smack technique.

I'm about 15 for 15 on fixing door window motors this way.

 

[sheltonfilms]

Ford says part cost is $170 (dealer price) and labor is 3.5 hours for motor replacement. At $100 an hour that's already $520 and they may charge a $100 diagnostic fee just to make sure its the motor. So $620.

And that folks is why I do my own repairs. $70 dollar part and about 2 hours worth of work as I almost always beat the book time.

BTW here is the motor and if you smack it, only hit the metal cylinder part.

 

[HMayes]

Ford says part cost is $170 (dealer price) and labor is 3.5 hours for motor replacement. At $100 an hour that's already $520 and they may charge a $100 diagnostic fee just to make sure its the motor. So $620.

And that folks is why I do my own repairs. $70 dollar part and about 2 hours worth of work as I almost always beat the book time.

BTW here is the motor and if you smack it, only hit the metal cylinder part.

Thanks for that. I was able to see the glass motor pretty easily through the hole in the roof. I tapped it pretty good with a screwdriver. No luck. Also getting 13 volts on both of those pins. I guess I will buy a new glass motor.

 

[sheltonfilms]

Thanks for that. I was able to see the glass motor pretty easily through the hole in the roof. I tapped it pretty good with a screwdriver. No luck. Also getting 13 volts on both of those pins. I guess I will buy a new glass motor.

did you hit the end of the screwdriver with a hammer? Anytime we did it to window motors we smacked the metal of the motor with a dead blow hammer.

I would try swapping motors (shade to glass). That's just me trying to save 70 bucks, in case it wasn't the motor but all the testing says it is.

 

[HMayes]

did you hit the end of the screwdriver with a hammer? Anytime we did it to window motors we smacked the metal of the motor with a dead blow hammer.

I would try swapping motors (shade to glass). That's just me trying to save 70 bucks, in case it wasn't the motor but all the testing says it is.

Good call. I may try that. Something that is bothering me about this, if it's the glass motor that's bad, why does the glass switch not cause the shade to retract? The shade switch operates the shade just fine, and my understanding is if you use the glass switch to open the glass while the shade is closed, the shade will open as well as the glass. So why does the glass switch not open the shade? Does that indicate a problem other than a bad glass motor?

 

[sheltonfilms]

Good call. I may try that. Something that is bothering me about this, if it's the glass motor that's bad, why does the glass switch not cause the shade to retract? The shade switch operates the shade just fine, and my understanding is if you use the glass switch to open the glass while the shade is closed, the shade will open as well as the glass. So why does the glass switch not open the shade? Does that indicate a problem other than a bad glass motor?

There is wiring between the two motors for communication. When the glass motor sees the open command it tells the shade motor to open if it hasn't done so already. Probably bad control board on the motor. Or maybe the COM wire between the two is bad and the glass motor isn't getting feedback that the shade is open so that it can move.

Either way a headliner drop sounds inevitable.

 

[Beneastman]

Mine turned out to be the motor that powers the glass. They tested fuses and switches but the motor turned out to be the issue. It definitely was due to water. I now know there are four drain holes in the "gutter" channel surrounding the moon roof. If they get clogged by dirt, pollen, gunk the holes plug, the channel fills up and the headliner swells. I now blow out those occasionally (low to medium pressure - 25 to 50 lbs) to keep them open. Now guess what...I guess I waited too long to clean them because we had a huge rain dump on us and I woke up to a soggy headliner and another burned out motor! I wasn't thinking and tried opening it before it all dried out. I suppose we all get a case of the dumbass sometimes. (2x now? Gee) But you would think if someone can make $5 aquarium pump motors that live under water that Ford could make a motor that can deal with a little moisture. I have an extended warranty but will still cost me the deductible.

I am considering buying the OEM motor myself and have the shop install it. I have the model number from the ticket. BB5Z15790A / SUNROOF MOTOR/MODULE ASSY

Last time it took them 3 weeks to get the motor and then they ordered the wrong one. This leads me to a question. Some schematics Ive seen online show two motors. A left and a right. I'm assuming one operates the shade. In my case both times the shade continued to work. If you have made any progress, do you happen to know whether the left or the right motor operates the glass?

I visited the shop and it looks like if you have some experience and your are willing to tug on your trim and headliner that you could likely replace the motor yourself. I don't trust myself to do that but you might.

I'm doing more research and will let you know.

You may see my post repeated on a new thread. I want to see if anyone else knows which motor controls the glass.

Good luck

 

[sheltonfilms]

Mine turned out to be the motor that powers the glass. They tested fuses and switches but the motor turned out to be the issue. It definitely was due to water. I now know there are four drain holes in the "gutter" channel surrounding the moon roof. If they get clogged by dirt, pollen, gunk the holes plug, the channel fills up and the headliner swells. I now blow out those occasionally (low to medium pressure - 25 to 50 lbs) to keep them open. Now guess what...I guess I waited too long to clean them because we had a huge rain dump on us and I woke up to a soggy headliner and another burned out motor! I wasn't thinking and tried opening it before it all dried out. I suppose we all get a case of the dumbass sometimes. (2x now? Gee) But you would think if someone can make $5 aquarium pump motors that live under water that Ford could make a motor that can deal with a little moisture. I have an extended warranty but will still cost me the deductible.

I am considering buying the OEM motor myself and have the shop install it. I have the model number from the ticket. BB5Z15790A / SUNROOF MOTOR/MODULE ASSY

Last time it took them 3 weeks to get the motor and then they ordered the wrong one. This leads me to a question. Some schematics Ive seen online show two motors. A left and a right. I'm assuming one operates the shade. In my case both times the shade continued to work. If you have made any progress, do you happen to know whether the left or the right motor operates the glass?

I visited the shop and it looks like if you have some experience and your are willing to tug on your trim and headliner that you could likely replace the motor yourself. I don't trust myself to do that but you might.

I'm doing more research and will let you know.

You may see my post repeated on a new thread. I want to see if anyone else knows which motor controls the glass.

Good luck

Glass motor according to service information is on the Driver's side.

If you believed the motor had water introduced to it you could try taking it apart and spraying contact cleaner everywhere.

 

[peterk9]

Mine turned out to be the motor that powers the glass. They tested fuses and switches but the motor turned out to be the issue. It definitely was due to water. I now know there are four drain holes in the "gutter" channel surrounding the moon roof. If they get clogged by dirt, pollen, gunk the holes plug, the channel fills up and the headliner swells. I now blow out those occasionally (low to medium pressure - 25 to 50 lbs) to keep them open. Now guess what...I guess I waited too long to clean them because we had a huge rain dump on us and I woke up to a soggy headliner and another burned out motor! I wasn't thinking and tried opening it before it all dried out. I suppose we all get a case of the dumbass sometimes. (2x now? Gee) But you would think if someone can make $5 aquarium pump motors that live under water that Ford could make a motor that can deal with a little moisture. I have an extended warranty but will still cost me the deductible.

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/index.php?threads/water-leak.327803/page-40#post-3555936

Peter