more uncommon engine swap options

[ryboj]

Guys, trying to determine viability of various engine swap options, in gaining a V8 powertrain, should I proceed to move forward with this phase of the build in the not so distant future. Seems some believe it easier to perform a swap on my first gen vs buying a second gen with a V8 and switching all my first gen long travel TTB front and rear section over to it.

The 5.0 is a solid option, and tried in true; however, that doesn't mean it's the only realistic and cost effective option, no?

Would any of these options be viable in your opinion below, since these are plentiful across yards and or purchasing whole vehicles for a bargain in some cases that have such examples. Or what larger issues come to mind?

Now, I don't mind staying with a manual trans, but might prefer auto for a V8 for trails/desert/dunes. So, if a manual, maybe a ZF or NV4500. Auto's, I'm open to anything solid, reliable and affordable. TC, prefer a manual unit and whatever can be made compatible and or in conjunction with adapters.

Dodge:

1: 5.2 (318) or 5.9 (360) Magnum
Note: I didn't include a 5.7 Hemi here, since these are not considered affordable used engines in my opinion, nor is the '09+ 4.7's

Toyota \ Lexus (more compact DOHC V8's):

1: 1UZ-FE 4.0's, the 1989-'94's, first gens, the most robust 4.0's they built internally speaking
2: 2UZ-FE 4.7's
Not sure the 4.3's would be as good in a heavier truck and are more costly because of people using these for drifting engines, etc.
I also excluded the Infiniti's because of the sheer size of those 4.5's, just too large

GM:

1: Older Caddy Northstar V8's (very affordable now and a lot of support from the last 2 decades of those that used these in the desert for buggies, etc) Never mind, just not reliable enough really and only select year and rwd models work.
2: Early gen 5.3, like an '04, as I might have a work truck I can take everything from potentially, but would need to be freshened up and it's not for sure though
Note: 6.0 LQ9 would be awesome, but definitely heavier unit and likely overkill for this application and not affordable used

Believe or not, also thought about using a Saab engine, a 2.3 I4 or a 2.8 V6, since they make big power reliably and easy to support, but not sure I'd have any options on transmissions, etc. These are CHEAP and plentiful. Big power potential and uber reliable when setup right and maintained.

Any thoughts on these ideas?

 

[JustinGibson]

Guys, trying to determine viability of various engine swap options, in gaining a V8 powertrain, should I proceed to move forward with this phase of the build in the not so distant future. Seems some believe it easier to perform a swap on my first gen vs buying a second gen with a V8 and switching all my first gen long travel TTB front and rear section over to it.

The 5.0 is a solid option, and tried in true; however, that doesn't mean it's the only realistic and cost effective option, no?

Would any of these options be viable in your opinion below, since these are plentiful across yards and or purchasing whole vehicles for a bargain in some cases that have such examples. Or what larger issues come to mind?

Now, I don't mind staying with a manual trans, but might prefer auto for a V8 for trails/desert/dunes. So, if a manual, maybe a ZF or NV4500. Auto's, I'm open to anything solid, reliable and affordable. TC, prefer a manual unit and whatever can be made compatible and or in conjunction with adapters.

Dodge:

1: 5.2 (318) or 5.9 (360) Magnum
Note: I didn't include a 5.7 Hemi here, since these are not considered affordable used engines in my opinion, nor is the '09+ 4.7's

Toyota \ Lexus (more compact DOHC V8's):

1: 1UZ-FE 4.0's, the 1989-'94's, first gens, the most robust 4.0's they built internally speaking
2: 2UZ-FE 4.7's
Not sure the 4.3's would be as good in a heavier truck and are more costly because of people using these for drifting engines, etc.
I also excluded the Infiniti's because of the sheer size of those 4.5's, just too large

GM:

1: Older Caddy Northstar V8's (very affordable now and a lot of support from the last 2 decades of those that used these in the desert for buggies, etc)
2: Early gen 5.3, like an '04, as I might have a work truck I can take everything from potentially, but would need to be freshened up and it's not for sure though
Note: 6.0 LQ9 would be awesome, but definitely heavier unit and likely overkill for this application and not affordable used

Believe or not, also thought about using a Saab engine, a 2.3 I4 or a 2.8 V6, since they make big power reliably and easy to support, but not sure I'd have any options on transmissions, etc. These are CHEAP and plentiful. Big power potential and uber reliable when setup right and maintained.

Any thoughts on these ideas?

Only suggesting since you mentioned the saab engine and you mentioned cost effective. The SOHC 2.3t that can be found in an SVO, XR4Ti, and Thunderbird Turbocoupe. The N/A version is already in the ranger makes it an easy swap. Tons of documentation on turboford for ranger swaps. has Forged pistons, and stock crank that can handle over 400 hp stock. With a Manual Boost controller, intercooler, large VAM with cone filter, bigger injectors, 3 in exhaust, La3 ecu you can make about 300 hp and well over 300 ft-lb of torque.
I have one in my XR and it is really easy to work on, parts are cheap and you will have plenty of room in the engine bay.

 

[ryboj]

Only suggesting since you mentioned the saab engine and you mentioned cost effective. The SOHC 2.3t that can be found in an SVO, XR4Ti, and Thunderbird Turbocoupe. The N/A version is already in the ranger makes it an easy swap. Tons of documentation on turboford for ranger swaps. has Forged pistons, and stock crank that can handle over 400 hp stock. With a Manual Boost controller, intercooler, large VAM with cone filter, bigger injectors, 3 in exhaust, La3 ecu you can make about 300 hp and well over 300 ft-lb of torque.
I have one in my XR and it is really easy to work on, parts are cheap and you will have plenty of room in the engine bay.

That's actually a pretty neat idea and it hadn't even crossed my mind, albeit I'm familiar with the old 2.3 NA, which was gutless but brutally reliable IIRC from a few friends that had that engine when I was younger. Always was a big fan of the '85.5+ 2.3 T engine, which had some updates if I remember....loved the '86 SVO's....and the XR's were super rare. I did ride ONCE in a late 80's something ThunderbirdCoupe 2.3 T and it was pretty zippy, and very much stock.

Thanks for that idea, definitely forgot all about that one.

When I looked into that engine like a decade plus ago, I remember it being pretty simple in nature, but do get a little nervous about parts and tuning capabilities, as it is so old in nature, unless there really is a large amount of parts and support still out there, which it seems you implied..... very interesting for sure.

It's all about having more HP, but more importantly, a lot more TQ to get this heavy thing moving, esp. if I start taking it to the dunes. Need something very reliable and robust to handle that. Can't overheat and or leave me stranded. Efficiency doesn't matter, reliability and consistency does.

 

[JustinGibson]

stock.

That's actually a pretty neat idea and it hadn't even crossed my mind, albeit I'm familiar with the old 2.3 NA, which was gutless but brutally reliable IIRC from a few friends that had that engine when I was younger. Always was a big fan of the '85.5+ 2.3 T engine, which had some updates if I remember....loved the '86 SVO's....and the XR's were super rare. I did ride ONCE in a late 80's something ThunderbirdCoupe 2.3 T and it was pretty zippy, and very much stock.

Thanks for that idea, definitely forgot all about that one.

When I looked into that engine like a decade plus ago, I remember it being pretty simple in nature, but do get a little nervous about parts and tuning capabilities, as it is so old in nature, unless there really is a large amount of parts and support still out there, which it seems you implied..... very interesting for sure.

It's all about having more HP, but more importantly, a lot more TQ to get this heavy thing moving, esp. if I start taking it to the dunes. Need something very reliable and robust to handle that. Can't overheat and or leave me stranded. Efficiency doesn't matter, reliability and consistency does.

Yeah man! I am assuming you will need to run a custom cooling system with most of these swaps and I don't think the engine has any inherent cooling issues but you would have to look into that. It is at least all iron block and head but much like the 4.0 ohv alot of these old heads do have cracks in them.
As for replacement parts basic stuff like gaskets and thermostats can always be found at local auto part stores. Other parts you may have to order. Some common failure points like TFI's may be harder to find new so a lot of owners seem to stock up on that kind of stuff.
The weight of these trucks is a big thing. I have thought about this a lot and the heaviest car I think this engine came in was the turbocoupe which weighed ~3400 lb so about 600-700 lb less than a stock explorer I think. The turbocoupe used an IHI turbo which is significantly smaller than the T3 to reduce turbolag to move the heavier vehicle. I think with the modern T3/T4 options that bolt on may be able to hit peak torque at a lower rpm than the old school IHI.
You can check out Esslinger engineering, BoPort, and Racerwalsh as these are the people that are putting out high performance heads, cams etc.

Either way good luck with whatever swap you go with!

 

[ryboj]

Yeah man! I am assuming you will need to run a custom cooling system with most of these swaps and I don't think the engine has any inherent cooling issues but you would have to look into that. It is at least all iron block and head but much like the 4.0 ohv alot of these old heads do have cracks in them.
As for replacement parts basic stuff like gaskets and thermostats can always be found at local auto part stores. Other parts you may have to order. Some common failure points like TFI's may be harder to find new so a lot of owners seem to stock up on that kind of stuff.
The weight of these trucks is a big thing. I have thought about this a lot and the heaviest car I think this engine came in was the turbocoupe which weighed ~3400 lb so about 600-700 lb less than a stock explorer I think. The turbocoupe used an IHI turbo which is significantly smaller than the T3 to reduce turbolag to move the heavier vehicle. I think with the modern T3/T4 options that bolt on may be able to hit peak torque at a lower rpm than the old school IHI.
You can check out Esslinger engineering, BoPort, and Racerwalsh as these are the people that are putting out high performance heads, cams etc.

Either way good luck with whatever swap you go with!

Looked at each site.... definitely a lot of goodness there. BoPort is right in my backyard, so that's kinda cool. However, just a head with minor mods, not the super fancy ones, cost as much as an entire 150k mile '98 V8 explorer, and that's just the head. Welcome to aftermarket and custom, haha.

Definitely would have to count the cost on that one, even if a simple setup by its very nature, the costs could easily exceed a V8 option by a good margin, even if rare and an uncommon swap option.

Great info though and yes, I think my Explorer is sitting around 4500ish... it's a beast and that's with no lights, rollbars, winches, rear links, etc.... would have to have a super spooling turbo, that's for sure. Thing is, for an offroad rig (non buggy), need a fairly consistent powerband, more linear, less spikes, so it's easier to handle and respond to. Not sure it would be ideal, but wouldn't mind at least factoring it out and speaking to a few of these folks but based on just a head, it's going to be up there in cost all said and done, since it might be hard to find a really nice core to work from and build off, as these are getting really up there in age.

 

[Josh P]

351W would be cool. A few here have done it.

 

[ryboj]

351W would be cool. A few here have done it.

Definitely an option, yes, just a bit heavier and larger in the engine bay, but still possible, yup! Imagine lots of those out in the yards. Seems like the '94+'s are the way to go for the roller type engine assembly, etc.

 

[Josh P]

How much power you wanting to make?

 

[ryboj]

How much power you wanting to make?

Conservatively, 250-300hp and 300-360 tq at the crank would be great.

 

[410Fortune]

Ford 2.3T , the electric 5.0, the SVO, this makes for a wicked truck, good mpg, and when they are built for boost they can easily make the 300 hp 300 ft lbs

Chevy 5.3 or 6.0 swap, the chevy small block is packaged to be small small and can be put into anything. Super capable and reliable engines, cheap to build (compared to the ford SBF), getting more popular

BT4 turbo diesel, enough said. Turbo diesel cummins in a Ford = yes please

Ecooboost, 5.0 coyote, heck how about the Trinity engine You can get late model turn key complete running take out drivetrains for sale on Craigslist these days, take your pick. How about the new 7.3 godzilla? I mean whats your budget? LMFAO

 

[ryboj]

Ford 2.3T , the electric 5.0, the SVO, this makes for a wicked truck, good mpg, and when they are built for boost they can easily make the 300 hp 300 ft lbs

Chevy 5.3 or 6.0 swap, the chevy small block is packaged to be small small and can be put into anything. Super capable and reliable engines, cheap to build (compared to the ford SBF), getting more popular

BT4 turbo diesel, enough said. Turbo diesel cummins in a Ford = yes please

Ecooboost, 5.0 coyote, heck how about the Trinity engine You can get late model turn key complete running take out drivetrains for sale on Craigslist these days, take your pick. How about the new 7.3 godzilla? I mean whats your budget? LMFAO

I did some more searching last night for 2.3T engine parts across the junk yards, but they're VERY scarce now at this point, being so old in nature. Between build cost of the engine alone and a steady supply of parts and support in future, it wouldn't be sustainable, affordability wise, at least it seems this way anyhow. Cool factor is high though.

Yes, agree, on the LS engines, the 5.3 being the best likely candidate within the LS line, like an '04 or so, which didn't have the cylinder deactivation non-sense and the oil consumption was better controlled then too it seems.

Yes, BT4 is a sweet piece of simplicity and greatness, as I own a BT6 12v, and I also know the BT4 is insanely heavy at 900lbs and louder than a 12v, haha. Not a good fit here but in another project where it made sense, YOU BET.

No direct injection engines for me, not a fan and huge engines, no thanks!

 

[JustinGibson]

I did some more searching last night for 2.3T engine parts across the junk yards, but they're VERY scarce now at this point, being so old in nature. Between build cost of the engine alone and a steady supply of parts and support in future, it wouldn't be sustainable, affordability wise, at least it seems this way anyhow. Cool factor is high though.

Yes, agree, on the LS engines, the 5.3 being the best likely candidate within the LS line, like an '04 or so, which didn't have the cylinder deactivation non-sense and the oil consumption was better controlled then too it seems.

Yes, BT4 is a sweet piece of simplicity and greatness, as I own a BT6 12v, and I also know the BT4 is insanely heavy at 900lbs and louder than a 12v, haha. Not a good fit here but in another project where it made sense, YOU BET.

No direct injection engines for me, not a fan and huge engines, no thanks!

Have you thought at all about a VW TDi? I don't know a lot about them but they seem to last forever, get great mileage, can make a lot of torque, and are plentiful. It will be more complicated than a common v8 swap. Dirt Lifestyle has some good videos on the swap as he did one in a TJ and I think hes swapping one into a LR disco.

 

[ryboj]

Have you thought at all about a VW TDi? I don't know a lot about them but they seem to last forever, get great mileage, can make a lot of torque, and are plentiful. It will be more complicated than a common v8 swap. Dirt Lifestyle has some good videos on the swap as he did one in a TJ and I think hes swapping one into a LR disco.

Definitely an idea, for sure. I had one, loved it, an '09 with the newer 2.0 and it was a 6 speed manual and tuned. It was fun for sure, for what it was. Yeah, I imagine those are fairly plentiful given their outlaw status in some sense, but also know some were resold detuned, etc. What a mess and fiasco that was. The ignition systems are pretty locked down however, not sure it lends itself to swapping as much, but I should at least check on it. Being only a 2.0, the 3.0 or 5.0 TDI would be a better combo for the extra power I want.

 

[Travisfab]

Where does the 2.3 make all it's power? Seems like it would all be up in the high RPM range which is not where an Explorer spends a lot of time. I just finished a 302 swap in a Ranger, and in all honesty, it's too much work for a 200HP motor. For my truck, I will definitely be looking at the GM based v8's. The available low end torque, and the huge aftermarket are what make it stand out.

 

[JustinGibson]

Where does the 2.3 make all it's power? Seems like it would all be up in the high RPM range which is not where an Explorer spends a lot of time. I just finished a 302 swap in a Ranger, and in all honesty, it's too much work for a 200HP motor. For my truck, I will definitely be looking at the GM based v8's. The available low end torque, and the huge aftermarket are what make it stand out.

3000-3200 RPM is peak torque for a stock SVO engine. You can lower this with a faster spooling turbo and breathing mods though. A roller cam from a 2.3 ranger helps to add a little low end grunt as well

 

[Josh P]

I think the 2.3 ecoboost would be a better swap option. I've found junk yards that flash the stock ecm so it can be swapped into older vehicles. No need for the control pack from ford.

 

[ryboj]

I think the 2.3 ecoboost would be a better swap option. I've found junk yards that flash the stock ecm so it can be swapped into older vehicles. No need for the control pack from ford.

From an output perspective, it's a decent candidate sure, however it's a DI engine and honestly, not a big fan of that technology (yet). Also, not sure on costs, but imagine being a newer engine, cost might be a lot higher than the alternatives. I'll have to inquire.

If this is to happen, thinking 4.5-5.5 total cost all said and done. If numbers don't add up and it will blow past that, likely won't happen and I'll have to stick with the old 4.0 ohv for a bit.

 

[Josh P]

Old school V8 will be the most cost effective.

 

[ryboj]

Old school V8 will be the most cost effective.

It likely is JoshP, since mpg is not a concern for the vehicle's intended usage. Just all the surrounding details need ironing out.

Note: One thing I need to spend some more time researching and understanding is all the accessories, AC, PS, PB, etc and how these things are controlled when we have a hybrid of newer parts being throw into an old vehicle and either standalone FI systems, etc. Need to wrap my brain around these details since I don't want to sacrifice any creature comforts and I also don't want a Frankenstein wiring job.

 

[410Fortune]

The 302/SBF conversion is not done just to get a 200 hp block under the hood it has WAY more benefits then that like HALF TON TRANSMISSION
Show me a drivetrain conversion that requires "less work?"

Also once you have a running 302 in the ranger with the bugs worked out.....sky is the limit for power and torque, time and $$$$
The 96 5.0 makes 215 horsies and 280 ft lbs, not bad for a START.

We are talking DRIVETRAIN CONVERSIONS not just I took out 4.3 and put in 5.8 Chevy stuff.......
PLUS the gt40 302 comes with 130 amp alternator, metal ps pump, high output water pump, oil pump, short front dress, and fits the gen I engine bay like factory. YOu can keep AC and cruise, ABS etc with the Ford drivetrain. Try that with the diesel or Chevy small block conversions.......

The BT4 has been done in the Ranger and Exploder, it fits quite nicely, but I understand its not for everyone. The new Cummins 2.8 "repower" could be done with a bunch of $$$$, but Im not sold on that thing, too much emissions and $$$$, that is why we keep going back to the tried and true bt4 or of course the VW TDI which has found its way into EVERYTHING these days.

The old 2.3t (Not ecoboost, SVO) still has a following and large aftermarket....I know I can still get a Ranger 2.3 engine all day long up here in the PNW, plenty of aftermarket support