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Need 4 More for Tom's Doubler from T&M Off Road Products

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The crossmember should not be a huge concern for you if you ask me, wouldnt be too much to have one made, to modify yours, if you cant fab it yourself.

The rear driveshaft will ahve to be modified.
 



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interested, what has to be done to the stock radius arm cross member to make it work. is it just a notch and reinforce job, or a total replace job?

-joshua
 






NOTAJP wrote:
Any possiblility of a goup buy discount?
Ok, so to be fair to this group, the thread and to your questions, I asked Tom two questions: (1) if there is anything he can do on price and (2) how many deposits it would take to get any kind of a group discount. I will keep everyone posted on replies.

However, and honestly, it's not realistic to consider a group discount until we get more than five people who are 100% willing to put down the non-refundable $100. So far, I've only got one defiite (me) and two 90%s...(RangerX and you.) Right now we are just trying to get Tom to restart production to make more of these things, not nickle-and-dime him. The best advice I can give is this: Don't plan on a group discount, be prepared to spend $750.

Again, I'll let everyone know.


Positive Vibes wrote:
Sounds like a pretty easy install in the garage. How could we modify or replace our crossmembers if he isn't making them??? What is your estimate on the total price??? If the truck has a lift this would just make the install that much easier, correct??? And the $100 deposit would go to the end price correct?
In reverse order >> Yes, the $100 deposit is deducted from the price, so your balance would be $650. (Total price is $750 complete with shifter.) Since Tom's description and installation instructions mention sheet metal clearance issues - and "the hammer" fix -, a body lift might make the installation easier. However, other than giving you more clearance between the ground and your truck's underbelly, I don't think a suspension lift would make installation any easier.

My conservative (meaning more than I think it will actually cost) total price estimate / budget is $1600. This is based upon $750 for the doubler with shifter, $200-500 for front & rear driveshaft modifications, up to $250 for installation, and a nonimal shipping / handling fee. It would be a couple hundred less if you can do the install yourself. (But IMHO, even at $1600 for all mods and installed, this is still almost $1000 cheaper than an Atlas II and gives you more versatiliy and a lower Low.)


Listen, as much as I want to get 5 people or more to sign-up as quicky as possible, and as "inexpensive" as this is, it's all relative to an Atlas or any of our other options. I don't want people going into this with the wrong idea. Please read this thread from my frist post, and visit's Tom's site so tha you are informed. You also need to know and accept that all told, this will probably be a $1200-1600 dollar investment, depending upon how much of the work you can do yourself, and how much it will cost you to have both of your driveshafts modified. (Yes, from Tom's own description / experience, you probably do need both the front and rear driveshafts modified. You may also need to move the gas tank back 1 - 2.5 inches. You may also need to cut a hole in your sheet metal floor for the shifter.)

I'd rather have people back out now, knowing all of the facts and having an idea of total / true cost rather than have anyone "throw me the fake,"... and back out after I've told Tom we are ready to go.

Hope this helps...
Anyone else 100% sure?
You two 90%ers... what do we need to do / ask Tom to get you to 100%?
 






goliath wrote:
interested, what has to be done to the stock radius arm cross member to make it work. is it just a notch and reinforce job, or a total replace job?

I personally am not sure, but guess it has something to do with the necessary crossmember modifications. I did email Tom your question and will let you know what he replies. I also invited him to check out this thread directly to gauge genuine interest and answer questions directly if he wants...
 






There are pics of the trans crossmember modification here as long as you don't mind looking at thumbnails since the fullsize ones don't work :rolleyes:
 






I'm sorry about the group buy pricing. I felt bad after I posted. I have been researching this thing for a long time. I'm like 95% sure I want to do this. I've just be budgeting building a killer motor at the same time. So many projets, so little financial backing ;). Uncle same only shares so many pennies, ya know.

That's a pretty high estimate on the driveshafts, but a good budget builder. I was quoted $80 locally for lengthening the front shaft with 3 new u-joints installed. Course he's prob going to be pissed at me for asking him to cut down the rear he just custom built me (twice because he didn't believe my length the first time).

I don't think it will be hard to build the cross member. When I get mine done, I'd be happy to build some more.
 






97XEB said:
You two 90%ers... what do we need to do / ask Tom to get you to 100%?
My 10% concern is the mating surfaces. If I could see a picture of the surface, or get at least get a more detailed description from Tom, I would put my money down. His response to you titled 'leak concern' doesn't give me enough info.
 






My intention is not to bash... rather just share my opinion and experience. I'm a no BS kinda guy and I will always give my straight up honest opinion to anyone about anything.

That said: I have one of Tom's doublers and I've been running it for over a year now. Over the course of that year, I have replaced the planetaries in the "doubler" because excessive wear due to lack of lubrication. Part of that is my fault for letting it go too long... my truck is a trail only vehicle and I usually only address things when they break... now being ME that is often so I'm always behind on maint kinda crap. My opinion on why my doubler leaks is: the "doubler" is made from steel, the plate is cut using a torch to make the pattern to adapt to the stock half case. it's then welded to large dia piece of tubing that has another plate welded to it. If you understand anything about metal and welding... heat makes things warp, period. So the "doubler" that's been torched and welded together isn't nearly as perfect as the machined surface of the stock case it's being matted too. It's not a perfect fit as I'm sure Tom knows and you should understand this concept! But the for the price and how it is made you are getting something that "works" it is not perfect and isn't really meant to be IMO. Sure this could be done WAY nicer... however that will cost more money ;)

The concept works, the doubled BW cases can handle alot more than most of you will ever dish out. Over the course of a year that I've been running this with 1 ton axles and 42's... I've broken almost everything but my doubler!!! The front 60 has been broken twice, I've twisted a driveshaft apart, broke a rear axle, demolished my rear traction bar, tore off my spring hangers (lame design, my fault) broken and bent my front radius arm twice which is really stout (or so I thought!) *edit* oh yeah, I also blew my clutch up... all the friction material was DUST in the bellhousing! that clutch had *maybe* 20k on it... *edit* I'm sure I did some other crap I can't remember... but the bottom line is, when I wheel... I wheel HARD. Rubicon, Hammers, Hollister (tank trap) and some other private places with badass trails. I fully trust the doubled bw tcases now... I have no doubts that I can stand on the pedal for five minutes and smoke all four tires on 4 foot tall rocks in the lil sluice box (which I've done more than once!)


the stock main shaft vs the modified main shaft


the adapter that mates the two cases together


modified case vs stock case
 






NOTAJP said:
That's a pretty high estimate on the driveshafts, but a good budget builder.
Yes, You can get 2 brand new Heavy Duty drive shafts built for ~$500 from Tom Woods or the like. I'd highly recomend it too. Better to pay for it the first time rather than pay for a replacement after you've pretzeled the stock one. ;)
 






Thank you Danger. ;) You have anwsered some of my questions.
 






Pushing the t-case rearward 9" on a stock X will place it smack in the gas tank. What have people done to overcome this problem?
 






V8BoatBuilder said:
Pushing the t-case rearward 9" on a stock X will place it smack in the gas tank. What have people done to overcome this problem?

um... move the gas tank, b2 tank, fuel cell.
 






Tom's response to a group purchase price discount:

OK, so based upon a couple of requests, I asked Tom about reduced group pricing. Here is his response:
no, sorry. the price is firm unless the quantities
would be closer to 20-25 units per run. that would
reduce unit cost about $75.00. thanks, tom.
At this point, I'll happily pay $750 for his doubler if we can just get four more people.

DangerRanger - Sincere thanks for the detailed input and perspective on how strong these are. Hands-on experience and product reviews are tough to beat. Again, with regard to the leasks, Tom does offer a warranty and I believe he will stand behind that warranty. Hopefully your input / answers helps move this along!
 






JB weld or silicoln the leaks??
 






I used LOTS of silicone, as my doubler leaked when I got it. I've taken it apart a few times and re-sealed it, it still leaks. When the bolts are tight you can actually see the steel adapter warp where the bolts are... it's going to leak no matter what IMO. It's not going to come out in one day... but leaves a couple drips everywhere it sits.
 






My stock case does that :)
 


















I'd be in but I don't like the idea of it leaking due to the surfaces not mating up.
 



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V8BoatBuilder said:
Pushing the t-case rearward 9" on a stock X will place it smack in the gas tank. What have people done to overcome this problem?

You had me worried for a couple of days. My wife was driving the X so I didn't get a chance to measure until this morning. on a '91-94 4 door, there are 12" from the back of the T/C to the fuel tank. Sports and Navajo's will have to measure. I would gues that the '95 and newer would have plenty of room if they were to run a BW1354 because the stock front driveshaft is much shorter then the 1st Gens.

The only other concern I have is where the shifters are located. I would want both of the shifters in the stock location(like atlas) becuase I like my center console. Hopefully they have been updated from those pics above.

I'm 100% in! Get-er-done! :thumbsup:
 






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