Need Advice on Supercharging

[justin146]

Had a little setback. The Ford Racing S/C I ordered for the '96-'97 5.0's has been discontinued. Tried three different vendors but no luck. There is a kit for the '98. What is the difference between these model years? The picture looks identical but that could be deceiving. Minor mods would be ok if needed to make this kit work. I have the inectors, MAF and fuel pump all picked out but I am reluctant to purchase these untill I know the S/C is compatible. And yet another question... Is the stock fuel rail sufficient for the 42# injectors?

The main difference is the fuel systems in the two kits- the early kits come with just an FMU; the newer system comes with a hybrid returnless/fmu setup. These are parts you wont be using if you are going with a custom tune and larger injectors.

 

[zachow3]

The main difference is the fuel systems in the two kits- the early kits come with just an FMU; the newer system comes with a hybrid returnless/fmu setup. These are parts you wont be using if you are going with a custom tune and larger injectors.

That was my question. Yes I am going with custom tuning and larger injectors, MAF and fuel pump. Being that this is a centrifugal supercharger, I dont see where the EGR would be an issue, since it doesnt mount on the intake. My issue is the actual mounting. Is it a straight forword bolt on? I cant imagine the '96 and '98 motors are not very similiar as far as accessories but then again I have not looked at a '98 so I'm just speculating.

 

[CDW6212R]

The tuning we have a grasp on, scrap anything that comes with it that relates to an FMU or a chip. You will be wise enough to use a flasher to program the PCM.

The EGR issue is something to deal with, the 98-01 needs the pipe in the elbow etc. Since yours isn't that way, if anything in the kit relates to the EGR you will need to do something different. I'm suggesting that you pay attention to that, the rest will not be a problem with your truck not being a 98 etc. Regards,

 

[zachow3]

So I thought I would give an update so far on what I have planned. The Ford Racing M-6066-E51 supercharger kit. EV1 42# injectors with matching 90MM lightning MAF, Walbro GSS342 fuel pump and custom tuning from Henson Performance. The 02 wideband I still need to look into. I'll probably farm out the fuel pump replacement (Leave that to the professionals) but I feel I'm capable of doing the rest myself. Unless... There is something else I dont know about. But I,m sure someone will let me know. Thank you to all who have provided your input. You've been a tremendous help. I still have time before things come together since the S/C is on backorder and probably wont see it for at least a week or more, so keep the comments coming. I learn from all of them.

 

[chriswells78]

Having torn down a 98 and a 96, I can tell you the biggest difference is the EGR setup, the intake/MAF mounting, the fan, the vacuum lines through the intake, the coolant lines to the upper intake and the fan. The only one of these that may effect the supercharger is the MAF and intake but the 98 stuff bolts right up and plugs into the 96. You are talking about changing all of that anyway. There is a difference between the 98 and a 99+ as well in the returnless fuel system and I'm not exactly sure when that turn over started in production, it may have been late 98. The 98+ kit may come with contingencies for both systems but you might want to check that with Ford Racing. If you call thier tech line during business hours you get through pretty quick.

They would be your best source for information on this. I called them when I was building my motor about retainers and locks for my motor and they sent me in the right direction so that when I went to Jegs, I didn't have to depend on a person who may or may not know what they are talking about. FRPP might also be able to tell you a vendor that has a 96 kit left. Their number is in all the FRPP catalogs.

 

[rwenzing]

Ford Racing M-6066-E51 supercharger kit. ..... Unless... There is something else I dont know about. But I,m sure someone will let me know.

The Ford Racing Explorer supercharger is a rebadged kit made by Powerdyne (out of business, currently reorganizing, whatever - depends on who you ask). The Powerdyne BD-11A pump in the kit has a sketchy reliabilty record. Some like it but many others tell belt and/or bearing horror stories. There are a few companies that do rebuilds and upgrades to help them live longer.

The basic problem is that Powerdyne tried to build a cheap, easy to install supercharger without using an external oil supply to lube and cool the bearings turning at 30,000+. Of couse, hotrodders then tried to up the RPM/boost with a ratio change and that made the situation worse. [Powerdyne also sold a much better gear-driven, oiled supercharger called the XB-1A. It addresses the issues of their belt driven units but is harder to find, expensive and definitely not part of the Explorer kit]

Actually, describing the Explorer Powerdyne as a "kit" is kind of a stretch. It is more a box of supercharger related components that may or may not fit the intended application and probably is incomplete. Kind of like you tried to piece together your own setup from parts and made some mistakes along the way. Instructions? Poor. Parts list? None. Expect to do some minor fabricating, parts hunting and cussing to install this "bolt on".

 

[SnookMan]

The Ford Racing Explorer supercharger is a rebadged kit made by Powerdyne (out of business, currently reorganizing, whatever - depends on who you ask). The Powerdyne BD-11A pump in the kit has a sketchy reliabilty record. Some like it but many others tell belt and/or bearing horror stories. There are a few companies that do rebuilds and upgrades to help them live longer.

The basic problem is that Powerdyne tried to build a cheap, easy to install supercharger without using an external oil supply to lube and cool the bearings turning at 30,000+. Of couse, hotrodders then tried to up the RPM/boost with a ratio change and that made the situation worse. [Powerdyne also sold a much better gear-driven, oiled supercharger called the XB-1A. It addresses the issues of their belt driven units but is harder to find, expensive and definitely not part of the Explorer kit]

Actually, describing the Explorer Powerdyne as a "kit" is kind of a stretch. It is more a box of supercharger related components that may or may not fit the intended application and probably is incomplete. Kind of like you tried to piece together your own setup from parts and made some mistakes along the way. Instructions? Poor. Parts list? None. Expect to do some minor fabricating, parts hunting and cussing to install this "bolt on".

My ole man has a powerdyne S/C kit installed on his yard truck, a 5.9L RT Dodge Dakota. Me and a buddy installed the kit and it was a piece of cake. Everything was included and pretty much self explanatory. We did however burn through a set of bearings, but I think they made it around 10k or so HARD miles and a blown head gasket before finally giving. The belt issues are cause by improper alignment of the provided pully, and also a quick fix. We just recently sent the S/C out to a company in Texas for a complete rebuild, and it had ceramic bearings installed which the company claims solves the reliability issues related to the original steel ones. Truck runs strong!!! Not ssure if S/C was worth it though, IMHO..seems to burn tires more than it moves down the road. Truck is slow as molasses off the line, but with a rolling start jumps like a rocket. But alot of that has to do with the headers and dumped exhaust. Hey, makes the trips to the dump WAY more fun!!!!

 

[zachow3]

I plan on keeping my truck AWD. I doubt my tires would break loose on wet grass and thats with extensive intake and exhaust modifications. I've heard all the pro's and con's of the powerdyne but someone will always have a story about any mod they added, both positive and negative. I spent alot of money on TM headers, CAI, upper intake spacer, new high flow cats,custom exhaust and a Livewire with custom tunes from Henson Peformance and gained 9 HP. (according to my Livewire). S/C'ing will hopefully marry all this together and give me decent results. It may not be top of the line but I dont drive a quarter mile at a time.

 

[rocket 5979]

The belt issues are cause by improper alignment of the provided pully, and also a quick fix.

He was talking about the internal belt inside the supercharger head unit, not the serpentine belt that drive the pulley on the front of the supercharger.

 

[rocket 5979]

I plan on keeping my truck AWD. I doubt my tires would break loose on wet grass and thats with extensive intake and exhaust modifications. I've heard all the pro's and con's of the powerdyne but someone will always have a story about any mod they added, both positive and negative. I spent alot of money on TM headers, CAI, upper intake spacer, new high flow cats,custom exhaust and a Livewire with custom tunes from Henson Peformance and gained 9 HP. (according to my Livewire). S/C'ing will hopefully marry all this together and give me decent results. It may not be top of the line but I dont drive a quarter mile at a time.

I suggest you don't trust any numbers estimated by any kind of 1/4 mile estimator unit whether it be the Livewire or a G-Tech unit. They are usually VERY far from accurate. I can guarantee that you gained one hell of allot more than 9 horsepower with the mods you stated.

 

[zachow3]

I suggest you don't trust any numbers estimated by any kind of 1/4 mile estimator unit whether it be the Livewire or a G-Tech unit. They are usually VERY far from accurate. I can guarantee that you gained one hell of allot more than 9 horsepower with the mods you stated.

I agree with you rocket. And to be honest, I didnt have the tuner prior to any mods so I have nothing to compare it to. It does run strong, at least compared to when it was all stock and I get compliments on the sound. No more CEL since James set me up. Never did find out what was tripping the light. A dyno would be the true test for checking power. There is one close by but they cater to mustangs and I dont know if they would be set up for AWD. Havent got that far. You seem to be very knowledgeable on supercharging the V-8's and I really value your input. If you have read my posts then you are up to speed on my intentions. You did mention in one of your earlier posts that I would be hard pressed to S/C for 2k and 3k was more realistic. Man were you right. 3k on this project would be optimistic at best, and thats with the best bargian prices I can find. But I am determined to get this done. Oh, by the way what is the issue with the internal drive belt?

 

[SnookMan]

I plan on keeping my truck AWD. I doubt my tires would break loose on wet grass and thats with extensive intake and exhaust modifications. I've heard all the pro's and con's of the powerdyne but someone will always have a story about any mod they added, both positive and negative. I spent alot of money on TM headers, CAI, upper intake spacer, new high flow cats,custom exhaust and a Livewire with custom tunes from Henson Peformance and gained 9 HP. (according to my Livewire). S/C'ing will hopefully marry all this together and give me decent results. It may not be top of the line but I dont drive a quarter mile at a time.

I don't believe for a minute that with all those mods on a 5.0L V8 you only obtained 9hp....The headers alone should have obtained that.
To tell you the truth, the S/C isn't going to be like a "wow" add. It wasn't like that on the 5.9L Dakota in my experience, but we're only running the 6 PSI pulley if I'm not mistaken.

If I was you, I'd look into a NOS wet kit, and be done with it. Power would be there when you want it, and the new kits are VERY reliable compared to the old ones you hear horror stories about. Get a 75 shot or maybe even a 100 shot, you'll be saying "wow". Here is a link for a good kit http://www.atlanticspeed.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=3565&IDCategory=98
Check out Ebay, as you can usually find a similar kit for just about $400

 

[zachow3]

So it appears Ford Racing has discontinued their S/C kits for the '96 -'98 model years. I cant get ahold of one, damn! They seemed like a relatively inexpensive straight forward kit that would bolt right up. I never considered nitrous but perhaps I should. Sounds like it would deliver the extra power I'm looking for at a fraction of supercharging. I need to think this over and do some homework. Cant do much else at this point.

 

[SnookMan]

you try Powerdyne direct?????

Here is the link http://www.powerdyne.com/explorer.htm

I installed one of their kits on my ole mans R/T...Personally, I'd get a wet NOS kit and have the power there only when I want

 

[rocket 5979]

So it appears Ford Racing has discontinued their S/C kits for the '96 -'98 model years. I cant get ahold of one, damn! They seemed like a relatively inexpensive straight forward kit that would bolt right up. I never considered nitrous but perhaps I should. Sounds like it would deliver the extra power I'm looking for at a fraction of supercharging. I need to think this over and do some homework. Cant do much else at this point.

You still have a few options here. The approach you take all depends on how much you want to have a supercharger on your truck. If you have a buddy that is pretty mechanically inclined and knows how to work metal a little bit then I would get a Vortech S-trim supercharger kit for a 5.0 Mustang and modify it to fit. It is all just simple bracketry and alignment of the supercharger pulley to the blower drive pulley on the crank. You might have to get your new balancer rebalanced for the Explorer 5.0 imbalance but I don't believe that will pose much problem. You can also find allot more Vortech kits out there and thus they are allot cheaper. You could pick a used one up for less than $2k. It may sound like allot of work to make it fit but I doubt it will be. Centri's are pretty easy in concept when it comes to installation. This way will require more work but it might turn out to run just as cheap as a new Powerdyne kit would have. The head unit it one hell of allot better too.

I like nitrous allot but the problem with it is that the power is just not there all the time. The bottle refills at $40 a bottle (average fill cost of 10lb bottle) adds up after a while too. It is up to you. Good luck.

 

[reserved50]

the Vortech kit is not a simple bolt on for the average person, you need the timing gear on the stock Exploder crank which has 3 bolt holes for the PD blower and the vortech kit uses 4 bolts etc, either way its at least a few days of fabrication and machining. Theres a breakup of parts on powerdynes site I believe, I think the main difference is the fuel system from 95-01 which isnt important for what you are going to be doing anyways.

http://mustang.c-f-m.com/ProductImages/vor-4FG218-020SQ.GIF

 

[zachow3]

Well, after 4 days I finally got a call from someone at Powerdyne (Am I the only one who works weekends?) and "HE" said they were ramping up their mustang S/C kits and "MIGHT" start making new kits for the explorer in a few months. I'm not holding my breath. In the mean time I'm assembling all the fuel system components (That all of you recommended, Thanks!) and pretty much just watching and waiting. Not crossing my fingers but not giving up either. I just have to remind myself to be patient ( And not let my wife know, she would be somewhat less enthusiastic then me). Also looking for a good recommendation on an FMU.

 

[turbo cat]

fmus are junk all they do is restrict the fuel at the return line under boost to create excessivly high fuel pressure its not an accurate way of tuning. The setup will most likely run incredibly rich. you need to tune the ecu to map the new fuel curves

 

[jah81592]

With the 42's and L-maf, you won't need a FMU. BTW, they are junk. A good tune will work just fine.-j

 

[zachow3]

This is good info! It makes me realize how little I know about S/C'ing an explorer. I still have a couple of sites I am trying for the powerdyne unit. And like the others it's probably only a matter of time before I get the "order cancelled" e-mail becuase they know they cant get them anymore. Why dont they update there websites? I did get two companies to delete their listings, but most are pretty slow. Why powerdyne? Because the price is right for me. No other real "bolt on and go" options are their. At least I have'nt found them yet.