Need Advice on Supercharging

Anyone have any experience on supercharging the 5.0L? After all the intake and exhaust work I have done and and tuned by Henson Performance (Thanks
James) my little motor still strains to push 2 plus tons down the road. I guess I should clarify that once I'm up to speed it perfoms great. The engine is strong and the truck will go faster then I care to(again thanks to James at Henson Performance for removing the speed limiter). I'm just looking for more power off the line(Damn Civics) and supercharging seems to me to be the best option. I don't want to tear into the engine (thats for another day). So I thought I would ask you all about doing this. I have been researching and can pick up an Eaton M90(rebuilt) for a decent price but the question I have is since I have the internal EGR is this an option? I have seen the one (weiand?) on explorerexpress and it wont work with the internal EGR and there is no way I could afford the $3800.00 anyway. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[rocket 5979]

the Vortech kit is not a simple bolt on for the average person, you need the timing gear on the stock Exploder crank which has 3 bolt holes for the PD blower and the vortech kit uses 4 bolts etc, either way its at least a few days of fabrication and machining. Theres a breakup of parts on powerdynes site I believe, I think the main difference is the fuel system from 95-01 which isnt important for what you are going to be doing anyways.

I never said it was a simple bolt on. I did say that it is all just simple bracketry and alignment. My meaning there was that there is not much that can hide from you when doing a custom install of a centrifugal supercharger. Doing something like a custom PD blower will sometimes have hidden items that are more easily overlooked. I can see how my wording could have served to confuse people. Depending on how you chose to modify the brackets for the Vortech would determine the front crank pulley situation. The options would be getting another entire new pulley with front blower belt pulley added. The other would be to run the Vortech back far enough where you could operate if off of the front accessory serp belt. It would take some modification but it is doable and would not be a job that only extremely skilled machinists could tackle. I would recommend a skilled DIY'er do it though. It also depends on what friends they have too.

 

[zachow3]

Well I'm totally up in the air as far as what S/C I am going to go with. It will probably be a few months before I can realistically purchase one. I did receive my 90MM Lightning MAF and 42# injectors and my Walbro GSS342 fuel pump should be here shortly.
The S/C will be centrifugal and probably limited to 6# of boost. And it appears there will be more fabrication than I had intended.
Anyway the MAF is some 3.5 " in dia. Much larger than my MAC CAI. Where can i find that rubber tubing for clamping the intake system together, and is the stock throttle body sufficient to handle the (eventually) increased airflow?
Just throwing out questions and hoping for your input.

 

[chriswells78]

The 90mm Lightning MAF is 4" outer diameter so you need a 4" coupler or adapter to get it to match your CAI. I got all of my intake components from www.intakehoses.com except the filter adapter. I got that from Ebay.

 

[CDW6212R]

I'm going to use my stock TB for my NA 347(no boost yet). I have a good porter doing the TB and elbow. The stock 70mm size is plenty if you just have it ported. The guy I found does a few various TB's, the Explorer unit is about $65, and he supply's the core. Check on eBay, or ask and I'll find a link for you. The stock TB works perfectly, while any others will need modification, and don't work perfectly.

BTW, how large is the MAC air inlet pipe, and do you think that it can be had separately? There are a number of companies selling rubber adapter hoses. I have a BA2600 MAF which is 90mm and I don't have an aftermarket air cleaner. I'm building a custom box for a larger filter. Regards,

 

[zachow3]

I just had the MAC intake apart today to take some measurements and the one I did'nt take was the of the pipe. It appeared somewhat smaller than the stock MAF and TB. Im guessing 3" ID? I did find out that the stock plastic pipe that connects to the stock air filter housing fit my 90mm MAf perfectly. I have no plans to upgrade the stock TB. I have'nt heard that the benefit is worth the cost. I did however realize I had no way to hook up an air filter to the MAF so I ordered the adapter today but have'nt settled on an air filter yet.Even without a S/C yet it would be nice to be able to start installing the components I do have, but I need to talk with James at HensonPerformance about whether I can or not at this point.You know so I can get a head start on this without having to try and do everything at once.
Intakehoses.com...good web site. I think I try and make a big deal of things and dont realize I tend to overthink things and make it seem harder than it needs to be be.

 

[rocket 5979]

I just had the MAC intake apart today to take some measurements and the one I did'nt take was the of the pipe. It appeared somewhat smaller than the stock MAF and TB. Im guessing 3" ID? I did find out that the stock plastic pipe that connects to the stock air filter housing fit my 90mm MAf perfectly. I have no plans to upgrade the stock TB. I have'nt heard that the benefit is worth the cost. I did however realize I had no way to hook up an air filter to the MAF so I ordered the adapter today but have'nt settled on an air filter yet.Even without a S/C yet it would be nice to be able to start installing the components I do have, but I need to talk with James at HensonPerformance about whether I can or not at this point.You know so I can get a head start on this without having to try and do everything at once.
Intakehoses.com...good web site. I think I try and make a big deal of things and dont realize I tend to overthink things and make it seem harder than it needs to be be.

James is going to tell you what I am about to right now. Leave the L-MAF and 42's off your truck until you do the supercharger install. They will not provide you with any power gains in your trucks current form. You would also need a new full tune once you install those items. That means you would need two full custom tunes... One post MAF/Injectors and another post s/c install. It would be a big waste of money to do it in two stages rather than just one.

That MAC CAI will at the very least have to be modified extensively to fit to a centrifugal supercharger once you get that on your truck. The reason for this is that the discharge scroll tube will be located in a different place with the centri supercharger. I suggest that instead of hacking your MAC CAI up to just take it off when installing the supercharger and sell it to recoop your losses. Then with that money you can either buy a powerpipe, have someone weld a new custom intake tube up to go from the s/c to your TB, or do your own with pieces from such sites as the one you linked in your post. Then send that piece you had created to someone like Jon to have it powdercoated to the color of your choice and it will look sexxy and be functional.

 

[zachow3]

James is going to tell you what I am about to right now. Leave the L-MAF and 42's off your truck until you do the supercharger install. They will not provide you with any power gains in your trucks current form. You would also need a new full tune once you install those items. That means you would need two full custom tunes... One post MAF/Injectors and another post s/c install. It would be a big waste of money to do it in two stages rather than just one.

That MAC CAI will at the very least have to be modified extensively to fit to a centrifugal supercharger once you get that on your truck. The reason for this is that the discharge scroll tube will be located in a different place with the centri supercharger. I suggest that instead of hacking your MAC CAI up to just take it off when installing the supercharger and sell it to recoop your losses. Then with that money you can either buy a powerpipe, have someone weld a new custom intake tube up to go from the s/c to your TB, or do your own with pieces from such sites as the one you linked in your post. Then send that piece you had created to someone like Jon to have it powdercoated to the color of your choice and it will look sexxy and be functional.

James is my tuner. I bought my Livewire from him and and he has told me any additional mods I make he will retune at no cost. I cant have this truck down for extended periods. It is my daily driver. No plans to butcher the MAC. When the time comes it may or may not go up for sale. Always nice to have the pieces to put it back to a more stock configuration if needed.

 

[rocket 5979]

James is my tuner. I bought my Livewire from him and and he has told me any additional mods I make he will retune at no cost. I cant have this truck down for extended periods. It is my daily driver. No plans to butcher the MAC. When the time comes it may or may not go up for sale. Always nice to have the pieces to put it back to a more stock configuration if needed.

James is a business associate and good friend so I talk to him quite often. You might want to check with him about the whole free retuning for different MAFS and injectors. Usually what is meant by offering "free adjustments to the tune" is for the more minor items or tweaks a person wants, not a full new retune. James could have made an exception here, I obviously cannot read his thoughts but I would confirm that with James before banking on it if I were you.

 

[zachow3]

James is a business associate and good friend so I talk to him quite often. You might want to check with him about the whole free retuning for different MAFS and injectors. Usually what is meant by offering "free adjustments to the tune" is for the more minor items or tweaks a person wants, not a full new retune. James could have made an exception here, I obviously cannot read his thoughts but I would confirm that with James before banking on it if I were you.

Rocket, If paying for a new tune is what is required to prevent 2 or 3 days down time for my truck than for me it is worth it. Dont give a damn about any performance increase as long as I can install all my fuel system and intake components in 1 weekend and still have a driveable truck. Yes I am on a self set budget, but I'm not on food stamps either (at least not yet) If spending a little more now makes the whole process run more smoothly than that is my preferred route to go. Everyone has their own way of doing things.

 

[rocket 5979]

Rocket, If paying for a new tune is what is required to prevent 2 or 3 days down time for my truck than for me it is worth it. Dont give a damn about any performance increase as long as I can install all my fuel system and intake components in 1 weekend and still have a driveable truck. Yes I am on a self set budget, but I'm not on food stamps either (at least not yet) If spending a little more now makes the whole process run more smoothly than that is my preferred route to go. Everyone has their own way of doing things.

The deal is that you will not be saving much time even by doing it this way. You are saving the time of installing the MAF and the injectors. That is only a 1.5 hour job to physically swap those out anyways. The supercharger is not mounted yet so it is not like you can fabricate the intake tube to mount the MAFS into either. Unless I am missing something that you are thinking about then I do not really see where you will be saving much more than an hour of install time if that. Chances are when you install the supercharger there will be rework you will have to do on the intake tube anyways so prefabbing anything wouldn't really save time either. I don't want to sound like the negative guy here but you will not be really saving much install time by pre-installing the MAFS and injectors. Tuning time with James you might save 30 minutes to an hour because the tune will be closer to what you will end up with but there still will be a good amount of retuning involved after the blower goes on.

I might have some tips on saving you install time when you are doing the build but I need you to answer a few questions first...

What particular supercharger do you plan to run?
What are your plans for the intake tube?
Would you be able to break the install up into two smaller install sessions if it meant your down time not hindering your work week?

 

[zachow3]

Rocket,
First let me answer your questions.
As far as the supercharger I am leaning to a Vortech unit. Centrifugal is all I can do. I still have a lot of research to do before I decide and a few months to save up to stay in my budget. Actually to get back in my budget because I've already blown that to hell.

Next, the intake. My plans are aluminum pipe. No showy chrome like the MAC but I know where to get what I need along with any couplers/reducers. You mentioned a powerpipe. What is that?

Yes I can break up the install into however many sessions but I want it to be driveable between those. I wouldnt sweat this if I had another vehicle, but I sold that so my options are limited there.

Here is what I plan to do. You say 1.5 hours to change out the MAF and injectors. The MAF no problem, but I,ve never pulled a fuel injector off a recip engine before so take that 1.5 hours and multiply by at least 3 or more if I have to pull the upper intake manifold off. And dropping the tank to replace the fuel pump? I dont have a clue. This may be something you consider easy or routine but for some one who has never done it before, I like to error on the side of caution and take my time.

I have e-mailed James with this "plan" and am waiting for a response.

 

[rocket 5979]

Rocket,
First let me answer your questions.
As far as the supercharger I am leaning to a Vortech unit. Centrifugal is all I can do. I still have a lot of research to do before I decide and a few months to save up to stay in my budget. Actually to get back in my budget because I've already blown that to hell.

Next, the intake. My plans are aluminum pipe. No showy chrome like the MAC but I know where to get what I need along with any couplers/reducers. You mentioned a powerpipe. What is that?

Yes I can break up the install into however many sessions but I want it to be driveable between those. I wouldnt sweat this if I had another vehicle, but I sold that so my options are limited there.

Here is what I plan to do. You say 1.5 hours to change out the MAF and injectors. The MAF no problem, but I,ve never pulled a fuel injector off a recip engine before so take that 1.5 hours and multiply by at least 3 or more if I have to pull the upper intake manifold off. And dropping the tank to replace the fuel pump? I dont have a clue. This may be something you consider easy or routine but for some one who has never done it before, I like to error on the side of caution and take my time.

I have e-mailed James with this "plan" and am waiting for a response.

Since you are going with a Vortech then you will need to plumb the oil feed and drain lines in. That will be something that you can do before the real build. It will save some hours right there especially the punching and tapping of the oil pan. Just run the oil lines where the blower will end up being and then ziptie them tight so that they cannot fall onto anything that can damage them.

The powerpipe I talk about is more or less the intake tube going from the s/c to your TB. There are premade ones out there for the Mustangs that look nice. If you plan to have one fabbed then that is good. No problem there.

You can install the new higher flow fuel pump before the build. That is one item you can do. Do you plan to do an adjustable fuel pressure regulator?

If you plan to do any AFR or boost gauges do them before hand.

The injectors will probably not take you that long unless you have never wrenched on any kind of engine before. Just undo the CAI, detach TB cable from TB, unbolt and pull upper manifold, unbolt rail and pull it and the injectors all out at once. Clean the injectors bungs in the manifold and rail with a little carb cleaner then do a real light coat of oil on the new injector o-rings and slide them into the manifold one by one. Pop the rails onto the top of them and then just reverse the above process for reattaching everything. Though the list looks long it is not a huge process when you are actually doing it. It is your choice but I think you will be wasting your money without gaining much time benefit with the plan you have. Just trying to help you out.

The reason I asked if you could spread the install out over two weekends is because you could install the supercharger bracketry one weekend and have the truck back together to drive for the week. Then the next weekend you have time to put forward to the build you can install the head unit, attach the oil lines already installed, do your MAFS and injectors, Install your new CAI tube, and wrap it all up with James tuning it. This way would allow you to not be rushed for time so much which will ensure higher quality work and it will also save you money for retuning the second time too.

I am not trying to be pushy here because this obviously isn't my project but I have done many many builds similar to this so I can probably point you in a good direction here.

 

[zachow3]

Since you are going with a Vortech then you will need to plumb the oil feed and drain lines in. That will be something that you can do before the real build. It will save some hours right there especially the punching and tapping of the oil pan. Just run the oil lines where the blower will end up being and then ziptie them tight so that they cannot fall onto anything that can damage them.

The powerpipe I talk about is more or less the intake tube going from the s/c to your TB. There are premade ones out there for the Mustangs that look nice. If you plan to have one fabbed then that is good. No problem there.

You can install the new higher flow fuel pump before the build. That is one item you can do. Do you plan to do an adjustable fuel pressure regulator?

If you plan to do any AFR or boost gauges do them before hand.

The injectors will probably not take you that long unless you have never wrenched on any kind of engine before. Just undo the CAI, detach TB cable from TB, unbolt and pull upper manifold, unbolt rail and pull it and the injectors all out at once. Clean the injectors bungs in the manifold and rail with a little carb cleaner then do a real light coat of oil on the new injector o-rings and slide them into the manifold one by one. Pop the rails onto the top of them and then just reverse the above process for reattaching everything. Though the list looks long it is not a huge process when you are actually doing it. It is your choice but I think you will be wasting your money without gaining much time benefit with the plan you have. Just trying to help you out.

The reason I asked if you could spread the install out over two weekends is because you could install the supercharger bracketry one weekend and have the truck back together to drive for the week. Then the next weekend you have time to put forward to the build you can install the head unit, attach the oil lines already installed, do your MAFS and injectors, Install your new CAI tube, and wrap it all up with James tuning it. This way would allow you to not be rushed for time so much which will ensure higher quality work and it will also save you money for retuning the second time too.

I am not trying to be pushy here because this obviously isn't my project but I have done many many builds similar to this so I can probably point you in a good direction here.

You make a lot of good points. I could piece meal this thing together and still have it driveable on a daily basis. Talking with James ( via e-mail) he said it can be done but would require a lot of work on both ends and I'm the lazy one. So if what you said is correct, I should be able to install the fuel system components in a day. I know you said a couple hours but again I am padding that. I do have nearly 20 years wrenching on various turboprop and jet aircraft so I dont dought my mechanical ability. Just these "newer" cars and trucks (anything post 1970ish) I really have very little hands on experience with, so there is a learning curve.
And just when I thought I had a game plan, you throw me another curve by mentioning an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. I take it the stock regulator isnt sufficient for the extra flow and pressure required. I thought a tune could compensate for this but perhaps it's beyond the capabilities of the PCM.
Searching around, I have read that these regulators are prone to failures. There was a brand though that seemed to be highly regarded for reliability but I cant remember at the moment what it was. Also E-mailed Vortech about the possibility of purchasing just a mounting kit without the head unit for now. I guess I'll see how that pans out. Also I was reading the Vortech installation guide and it says you tap into the engine oil supply at the oil pressure sensor and doesnt require drilling in to the oil pan. Hope thats true. The drain hose dumps into the drivers side valve cover.
I welcome all your input. I'd rather be wrong by guessing before I get to the point of doing.

 

[CDW6212R]

Avoid messing with the fuel pressure regulator, the stock pressure is fine. The PCM does need to be tuned for injectors, MAF etc. Please don't use an adjustable FPR to do what the PCM is for. That is an older pre OBDII PCM habit. Regards,

 

[zachow3]

Avoid messing with the fuel pressure regulator, the stock pressure is fine. The PCM does need to be tuned for injectors, MAF etc. Please don't use an adjustable FPR to do what the PCM is for. That is an older pre OBDII PCM habit. Regards,

Good to know! So the stock FPR will provide sufficient pressure and volume for 42# injectors under boost? I hope so. One less expense I hadnt counted on.
Will the stock fuel rails and fuel pump supply and return lines create any restrictions under hi flow? I see these fancy billitt aluminum rails for sale And even though they would look nice are they necessary? Sorry, lots of questions but I,m getting good answers so I keep asking.
Oh, and one more question... What air filter should I get that will fit the 90MM MAF?

 

[CDW6212R]

Robert can say far better than I, but the limit of the stock rails is a good 400-450hp. The regulator is a purposeful restriction on the return side. It doesn't limit flow to the injectors, it adds restriction on the backside to bring pressure up to the needed amount.

For an air filter I suggest to use the best that you can. An air filter is the biggest factor in keeping contaminants out of the oil. The "dirt" gets through the filter and into the engine, then the oil. So use the best cleaning filter possible, I recommend Amsoil EA filters. They are not cheap, but far better than the oiled and other "high flow" but not good filtering types.

My filter(Volant air cleaner) for my SOHC 99 truck was $37 I believe, and my oil was noticeably clean at 9500 miles. I'm this week tearing some of my 98 truck down for work. I plan to begin work on an air cleaner. There are a few aftermarket choices for stock, but for the big MAF you may end up with an open element filter. I plan to cut a hole into my inner fender big enough for a filter to go through usefully, and build a plastic box in place of the stock air cleaner. I have a 90mm BA2600 MAF, and a 4" filter adapter for it. The cheapest adapters are about $35, this one I have(black) was $45 I believe.

 

[zachow3]

Well,
Finally some good news. I was able to aquire a supercharger kit from Ford Racing. Should be here on 5/12. Most of the other parts I have. A few intake items needed, but those can be bought locally so not a big concern. I'm going on vacation for the next week so I wont be working on the truck right away. Hopefully I can be up and running in June.

 

[reserved50]

can you take pictures of the kit when you get it especially the brackets. Not a big deal, just curious what update they are on that kit. They kept monkeying with it and have been several revisions till they went under or whatever.
If they still have the goofy plastic inlet on the back of the blower you might want to contact cement a heat shield, maybe strips of header wrap on it to keep it from melting on the headers especially if you run it hard.

 

[zachow3]

can you take pictures of the kit when you get it especially the brackets. Not a big deal, just curious what update they are on that kit. They kept monkeying with it and have been several revisions till they went under or whatever.
If they still have the goofy plastic inlet on the back of the blower you might want to contact cement a heat shield, maybe strips of header wrap on it to keep it from melting on the headers especially if you run it hard.

I will take pictures of the kit but I dont have the priveledges to put them on this forum so if you would like, PM me with an e-mail address and I can get them to you that way.

 

[Highroller]

Who did you end up getting it from and is there anymore? Thanks