Need Advice on Supercharging

[CDW6212R]

The plug and gap should be as you mentioned it. I would prefer to keep the 195 operating temperature. The cooling systems in Fords beyond about 1994 is better, the old school idea of a colder thermostat is not needed(wrong). If you can find a way of monitoring the actual temps, I would do that before any change of temp.

The stock system is very good when operating correctly. My 99 V6 truck never gets over 200 degrees in hot weather while going 30 miles in three hours(lots of idling). I have an electric fan on this truck and it only runs occasionally. Any old Ford would require a constantly running fan in idle, high heat conditions.

I would suggest buying a Failsafe thermostat though, if the coolant gets too hot the thermostat fails open instead of closed. Regards,

 

[Jakee]

I'm sketchy on agreeing with your statement about the colder thermostat not being right. It may not be a huge gain, or any performance gain at all, but anytime you lower the engine temp, you more than likely also lower the trans temp, the intake temps….ect. With that said, you don't want to get carried away with how cold you run the engine cuss there is a lot of tuning stuff that goes off the temps. In fact, almost everything hinges off this so 10 degrees lower at max shouldn’t do any harm, if a person wants to run colder.


Anyone else have any input on this?

 

[zachow3]

The plug and gap should be as you mentioned it. I would prefer to keep the 195 operating temperature. The cooling systems in Fords beyond about 1994 is better, the old school idea of a colder thermostat is not needed(wrong). If you can find a way of monitoring the actual temps, I would do that before any change of temp.

The stock system is very good when operating correctly. My 99 V6 truck never gets over 200 degrees in hot weather while going 30 miles in three hours(lots of idling). I have an electric fan on this truck and it only runs occasionally. Any old Ford would require a constantly running fan in idle, high heat conditions.

I would suggest buying a Failsafe thermostat though, if the coolant gets too hot the thermostat fails open instead of closed. Regards,

I have been told the copper top plugs are the ticket for boosted engines. They are dirt cheap compared the Iridiums I currently run.

I wasnt sure of the stock thermostat setting. Is it 195 on the 5.0? When I checked Jegs and Summit, both came up with a 180 thermostat as a stock replacement.

I can monitor coolant temp on my Livewire, so maybe that was a stupid question to ask. I will check it tomorrrow and see what it's running at.

Having had the Explorer for almost a year now, I have never seen the stock temp gauge really move much. Whether it was 90+ deg heat stop and go or below freezing. Once it warms up it seems to be rock solid, which makes me feel confident that the coolant system is doing it's job. I did have it flushed, along with all other fluids right after I bought it.

My concern was do to added heat from a higher compressed air mass from the S/C perhaps more coolant flow would be necessary to prevent detonation but then again it might just be me overanalyzing things.

I've never heard of a Failsafe thermostat. Sounds like a very good idea. Where can I get one?

 

[CDW6212R]

The ideal best power temperature is about 195 degrees. Older Fords before the mid 90's all run a good 10-15 degrees hotter than the thermostat rating. An old Ford with a 180 thermostat should at best run 195 degrees.

If you install a 180 rated part in the 95+ Ford, it should run very very close to 180 degrees. That is too cold, I have a 180 in my 302 Mountaineer. The mileage is hurt, power is no better.

That theory is based on a properly operating cooling system. If you have heat issues for any reason, I would suggest finding those instead of a cold thermostat. The fan clutches are not forever parts, they will work less well and raise temperatures with age. Night,

 

[CDW6212R]

While working on it add a bottle of Water Weter for better heat transfer, it's about $8 at parts stores. O'Reilly's had the Failsafe by Motorad, the card has even another name on it, they should be hanging out in the store.

 

[zachow3]

I'm sketchy on agreeing with your statement about the colder thermostat not being right. It may not be a huge gain, or any performance gain at all, but anytime you lower the engine temp, you more than likely also lower the trans temp, the intake temps….ect. With that said, you don't want to get carried away with how cold you run the engine cuss there is a lot of tuning stuff that goes off the temps. In fact, almost everything hinges off this so 10 degrees lower at max shouldn’t do any harm, if a person wants to run colder.


Anyone else have any input on this?

I will take a coolant temp tommorrow so I know where I'm at, but 195 deg seems a little high, at least on the 5 liter.

Curious what you said about engine temp affecting tuning. I had not heard that. I'm currently filling out a tuning form so after the install I can safely drive it down to the dyno shop for the final tune. The form is 4 pages long and asks all sorts of questions about whats being installed and such but nothing about temps. That would be a good question to ask them.

 

[CDW6212R]

My 302 truck can see temps of 145 or less on the highway, in Summer. These have wonderful cooling systems.

 

[Jakee]

I will take a coolant temp tommorrow so I know where I'm at, but 195 deg seems a little high, at least on the 5 liter.

Curious what you said about engine temp affecting tuning. I had not heard that. I'm currently filling out a tuning form so after the install I can safely drive it down to the dyno shop for the final tune. The form is 4 pages long and asks all sorts of questions about whats being installed and such but nothing about temps. That would be a good question to ask them.

The temp of the engine determines a few things going on with your tune. ECT

Mainly this affects when your truck will switch between open and closed loop.

Open loop = No input from your 02 sensors.
Closed loop = Input and adjustments made from your 02 sensors.

It also affects when adaptive learning is enabled.

If your truck runs too cold, it will never go into closed loop. This will hurt gas mileage. The only thing is, you have to be way colder than the stock thermostat (150 or below on mine) for that to happen.

 

[zachow3]

Well, I was watching engine coolant temps today on the Livewire. This morning was cool, about 40 deg and the engine temp was in the 190's all the way to work. The Livewire display was bouncing around quite a bit from 190-206 deg, the mid 190's seemed to be the range it stay in for the most part. After work the OAT was in the low 70's with the same results. Didnt see any difference when the IAT was reading anywhere from 60ish up to 120+.
Dont know why there was so much temp fluctuation on the Livewire, other then it,s very sensitive, but there is no needle movement on the stock temp gauge. Which makes sense. I wouldnt want all my gauges twitching constantly.

Now I guess at some point I need to address the high IAT. Cant really call it a cold air intake if its sucking in 125 degree air...and then getting compressed which equals more heat.

 

[CDW6212R]

The IAT temps are high at any time that little air flow is cooling the air cleaner. Any and all air cleaners absorb heat from the engine bay. My Volant air cleaner does not stop heat from coming through at idle or any slow speed. At any speed above about 25mph the IAT's will be very near to the actual air temperature.

 

[Jakee]

The IAT temps are high at any time that little air flow is cooling the air cleaner. Any and all air cleaners absorb heat from the engine bay. My Volant air cleaner does not stop heat from coming through at idle or any slow speed. At any speed above about 25mph the IAT's will be very near to the actual air temperature.

....unless your turbocharged or supercharged.

 

[zachow3]

The IAT temps are high at any time that little air flow is cooling the air cleaner. Any and all air cleaners absorb heat from the engine bay. My Volant air cleaner does not stop heat from coming through at idle or any slow speed. At any speed above about 25mph the IAT's will be very near to the actual air temperature.

My MAC CAI has the IAT sensor mounted just forward of the throttle body and right above the passenger side header. So im not getting an actual intake temp at the air cleaner.Maybe it's just me but the TM headers seem to give off more heat than the stock manifolds did.
The intake I will be installing has the IAT sensor just aft of the air cleaner and should give a more accurate reading of the air coming in.

Oh, And i had question for James or any SCT tuners. My Livewire gives me the option to display MAF voltage, but when I select it is just says invalid. It does read MAF counts though. Perhaps thats not an available feature on the
'96? Just curious.

 

[zachow3]

....unless your turbocharged or supercharged.

That was my thinking too.

 

[Jakee]

I'm no tuner but I do know that the a/d counts is the voltage * 205. To convert A/d counts to voltage; multiply voltage times .00488

This doesn't anwser your question but you have the data your looking for - just not converted to the other.

 

[zachow3]

I'm no tuner but I do know that the a/d counts is the voltage * 205. To convert A/d counts to voltage; multiply voltage times .00488

This doesn't anwser your question but you have the data your looking for - just not converted to the other.

Obviously, I'm not a tuner either because I have no idea what you just said. I think I will leave this to the professionals.

That said, I had a slight altercation with a newer (not sure what year) Dodge Charger R/T a couple days ago. On the freeway coming home from work this guy decided he needed to be in my lane. So, without having cleared my front bumper yet, decided to turn in front of me. No warning and ( I hate this) no turn signal. After tapping the brakes and laying on the horn for 10 seconds or more, (not including the colorful language spewing out of my mouth), he accelerated sharply and so did I. While he pulled away from me, my truck took its usual couple of seconds as the rpm's climbed before the tranny kicked down and I caught him only because he came up on a slower car. No hand gestures were exchanged but I think he knew he was not paying attention or thought he owned the road in his sleek black "Hemi" powered car.

Anyway, nothing came of it and I continued on home. Still a little pissed off.
So I got on the internet to do a little research on the Dodge. Apparentaly from what I found the R/T Chargers run a 345 C.I. engine putting out 340HP and 390 FT-LBs of torque on a 4135lb vehicle. This did not give me any chance remotely of matching up. They claim a 14 sec 1/4 mile.

I,m not building a drag truck and I,ve listed pretty much all my mods in this thread( i will add them to my sig when I actually get them installed) but is breaking into 14 sec territory realistic? I dont need to beat people like this(The dodge) just not be a speck in their rear view mirror.

 

[Jakee]

Hey Zac - What I was trying to tell you is the a/d counts is the way I would suggest you learn. In other words, it is the voltage but just multiplied by a factor of 205. I never log voltage, only a/d counts.

An easy way to understand this is that 1023 A/D counts = 5 volts (this is the max). Zero a/d counts = 0 volts. Half of that (515 ad counts) = 2.5 volts and so on....THIS IS AN APPROXIMATE!


I've rode in those chargers. I think you'll be able to murder one when your done and I'm pretty sure my v6 with the turbo would murder one right now.

 

[CDW6212R]

If you can make a power near to 350, you will keep up with most all stock vehicles.

 

[zachow3]

Hey Zac - What I was trying to tell you is the a/d counts is the way I would suggest you learn. In other words, it is the voltage but just multiplied by a factor of 205. I never log voltage, only a/d counts.

An easy way to understand this is that 1023 A/D counts = 5 volts (this is the max). Zero a/d counts = 0 volts. Half of that (515 ad counts) = 2.5 volts and so on....THIS IS AN APPROXIMATE!


I've rode in those chargers. I think you'll be able to murder one when your done and I'm pretty sure my v6 with the turbo would murder one right now.

Good deal! I can actually understand it in those terms. Have'nt done a WOT run to see what my max count will be with the stock MAF but I will try it soon.

I would like to get some before and after data for comparison. I cant datalog my results as I dont have a laptop. The after results will be recorded on the dyno. I have no idea what to expect.

Some have responded that the powerdyne is a somewhat inferior supercharger. I was very close to going with a Vortech or Paxton untill I blindly came across the Powerdyne at a price I could'nt refuse.

All the other parts were recommended by fellow forum members so I went with something proven.

Except for a wideband, I have everything I think I need for the install. Just a few more nickel and dime items I can get locally.

The performance on these newer vehicles is so far superior to my older truck, I cant imagine keeping up with them with a mild build like i'm doing. Hopefully it puts me in a position to compete with the newer SUV's though.

 

[zachow3]

Been working on my intake. Trying to fit 4" tubing is tough in what space I have. Originally the intake was nearly 24" long at the bend. got it down to 21+" with the 90 deg bend. Still to long. The coolant overflow resevoir gets relocated next to the fan shroud, but I dont really have any room to move the windshield resevoir further back. I could go without one (prefer not to do) or find a smaller one off another vehicle. I would prefer a smaller resevoir.Anyone know what type of vehicle I could get one off of that would work?

Wait a minute... I'm to lazy to go check, but the reservoir for the back hatch window is that smaller? That might be the ticket.

 

[CDW6212R]

I thought of something which might handle the wiper reservoirs, but it would be some work. The old 91-94's have two WW pumps, do the 95-97's also?

The 98 up models have one reservoir and one pump, two outlets. You might be able to use a similar design and use the rear reservoir only. That would mean doing something with the rear pump, like using the 98+ pump back there. Plus the plastic fluid line would have to be run inside, plus wiring it up like the 98+ trucks etc. That's a lot of work, try to avoid that.