New Explorer "Crucial" to Ford

[2TimingTom]

Advantages of Rear-wheel Drive
Additionally, all race cars require the performance abilities and balance associated with rear-wheel drive.

Yeah, all.

Except:

and:

and some AWD just for fun:

I could post more. But I'm sure you probably just meant to say NASCAR racecars. I used to have a FWD track car and had several expensive RWD cars holding me up in the corners.

Rear-wheel-drive automobiles have been called safer vehicles due to their overall balance and drivability. This drivetrain allows the driver to feel like he has a large amount of control over the vehicle.

Hearsay unless you can provide evidence.

Camaros have been called mulletmobiles can will cause the owner to grow a mullet against his will.

See, I can play this game too.

Not everybody lives in a big city with paved roads with drainage and potholes being the main concern of what your ride needs to handle, Truck people live in the rural world. Try to talk city slicker **** to a cowboy and your gonna get the horns. Try to talk a farmer out of his capable work truck for a FWD car, and he will plow you into the ground. Try to talk a blue collar laborer to give up his truck with a live axle and a hauling load weight of a thousand lbs or more, and he will cover you with earth.

And I'm pretty sure most of those people you described would buy an Explorer for their wifes/girlfriends and drive a proper pickup truck themselves. I've never seen the Explorer as all that "manly" of a truck. And really, if you are concerned with image with what you drive.......

True, not everyone lives in the city. But most people do. I'd imagine that if not a single "rural" person bought a 2011 Explorer, they'd still be able to keep the lights on at the factory.

Front-wheel drive vehicles sometimes have a problem with torque steer. When the vehicle is accelerating at a certain speed, the steering can effected. This occurs because the engine is connected to the steering column. Rear-wheel drive vehicles do not have this same issue, due to the motor being located in a different place in the vehicle.

Wrong. Way wrong. Torque steer only happens when you accelerate REALLY hard. Most of the time, driving a FWD you'll never experience torque steer. And it's not caused because the engine is connected to the steering column (really? I can't believe I just read that.... total facepalm). Torque steer is caused from the unequal axle lengths due to the differential usually being off center in the front. And if a RWD with enough power accelerates fast enough, you'll also be faced with steering issues.

 

[gmanpaint]

I just happen to live in the city these days.

Well there ya go. That kind of sums it up right there.

The question asked was...What are the advantages of RWD over FWD. Not AWD or 4WD. I threw in a few fun facts for good measure.

Remind me to pass you and your family up in my lifted live axle 4wd on/off (yes, it does both very well) road SUV while your stuck in a white out blizzard starving for food, for a family that appreciates our rigs.

Make all the excuses and arguments you want, you are trying to compare apples to oranges. There is no comparison to be made. You either get it, or you don't, We all know you don't get it.

 

[gmanpaint]

http://www.rearwheeldrive.org/rwd/rwdbenefits.htm
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/reviews/comparisons/1266931

Have a nice read

 

[sean99]

 

[2TimingTom]

Better ask every police department in the country which has always spec'd RWD over FWD for their patrol vehicles.

Every.

Except:

This one is GREAT:

 

[2TimingTom]

http://www.rearwheeldrive.org/rwd/rwdbenefits.htm
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/reviews/comparisons/1266931

Have a nice read

First of all, I didn't even bother reading the first one. The domain name alone just reeks of unbias. Might as well go to the PETA website looking for a good how-to on grilling a steak.

However, the closing paragraph in the second link:

ALL SAID AND DONE
Neither front-wheel drive nor rear-wheel drive is really better than the other. Today's sophisticated traction and stability control systems are so good they can mask or enhance the true driving dynamics of a vehicle. That said, through most of this test we found the effectiveness of these systems had more to do with a car's performance than which wheels were actually doing the driving

 

[Turdle]

Wow, the diversity of this forum is sure reflected in the opinions posted. I think that is pretty cool. It's nice we have a place where we can state them huh?

Which tea is best for night time?

 

[2TimingTom]

Wow, the diversity of this forum is sure reflected in the opinions posted. I think that is pretty cool. It's nice we have a place where we can state them huh?

I agree. And it's stayed civil.

Which tea is best for night time?

FWD tea?!?!?

 

[damarble]

Face it guys, this new Explorer satisfies every need of the core group that made it popular. It will haul the kids around and will be safer to drive in bad conditions than your average sedan. It's a perfectly good vehicle for it's intended purpose.

That said, I am not in that group and would never buy one. I require a manual transmission and RWD/4WD. I don't care about the number of cylinders though, just how much power/economy I get from them.

Wrong. Way wrong. Torque steer only happens when you accelerate REALLY hard. Most of the time, driving a FWD you'll never experience torque steer.

If you pay any attention to your FWD car at all you will notice torque steer more often than not, not just hard acceleration. It's an inherent flaw that can only be dressed up with other tech.

 

[2TimingTom]

Regardless of whether you can feel torque steer all the time or not, torque steer isn't a big deal most of the time. In slippery or max dry traction acceleration (as in accelerating as fast the the engine/tires will allow) is the only time you will ever need to add some steering inputs to help keep the vehicle straight.

 

[damarble]

I don't know why you keep using absolutes, only this and never that. Torque steer may show up at any time, moderate or hard acceleration. By it's very name it requires steering input to counteract the effect. Granted it is barely worth noting most of the time, but denying it doesn't make it not so.

You seem awfully defensive over the issue. Typically that's a sign of holding the inferior position.

The first link that you ignored actually had a paragraph in bold that describes one of the best benefits of RWD that hasn't even been touched on:

The biggest benefit to rear wheel drive is that it spreads the loads of the car across all four tires of a car. In a rear wheel drive car the rear wheels do the pushing while the front wheels are reserved for the steering duties. In front wheel drive cars the front tires must perform both functions. Each front tire in a front wheel drive car must do two tasks. Both the cornering forces and the engine acceleration/deceleration forces in a front drive car act on the same tire.

So in a front drive the tires capacity can be easily exceeded. In a rear drive car the rear tires handle the engine acceleration/deceleration while the front only need to handle the steering forces. Not only does this balance the load on the tires but it reserves the front tires exclusively for the all important steering duties.

 

[Limited02]

I asked one question and holy smokes I will say that I disagree with a lot that was said and I still don't see the advantage a RWD has over a FWD to make it worth bickering about.

There was a mention about cops and Crown Vics. Guess what the Crown Vics are being replaced with since the Panther plateform is dead? The Ford Taurus!!! Which I believe is the same plateform the new Explorer is based off of. If Ford is confident that the new Taurus will live up to the legend that the Crown Vic has achieved, then I say the drivetrain of the new Ex is more than capable.

Pics are being thrown up of customized 4x4 Explorers in comparison to a stock 2011 Ex and that is an apples to oranges comparison I said before that a 2011 Ford Explorer will go just as far for the most part off-road as any STOCK Explorer before it. When in 4x4, it doesn't matter whether it's FWD or RWD right?

And yes, a farmer isn't going to buy a FWD car to work on the farm, but I bet he'll buy his wife one. And if he's a real farmer, he'll buy her a 4x4 and once again, FWD vs RWD doesn't really matter.

We can agree that under "normal" driving, a FWD will have an advantage because as stated, it has better traction and is more manageable than a RWD vehicle. On ice, in the rain, on gravel roads, a FWD will be easier to control than a RWD. When locked into 4x4, it's pretty flipping equal between the two

In conclusion, it seems those that dislike the new Explorer is really for one thing only, lack of moddibility. Thank you and goodnight

 

[EX-SV]

I believe they'll be at most dealers in January. At least that's what the manager at the Wickenburg, AZ Ford Dealer told me today... Char and I went their to test drive a 2011 Fiesta. We weren't too impressed. We'll go back when the new Focus comes out which is also supposed to be next month.

Thanks. I did see one (on a platform) at SF car show,looked good.

 

[unclemeat]

The advantage of rear wheel drive veres front wheel drive is obvious. Assuming 50/50 weitht distribution. Each tires has a certan traction value, well call it X. So the ability of the vehicle to corner is dependent on 4X. A front wheel car uses the front axle for primary braking, steering and acceleration. A rear wheel drive car uses the front axle for primary braking, and steering. That leaves the rear axle for acceleration. That means that the rear wheel vehicle can use the 4X value for traction, the front wheel vehicle has to use a traction value of less than 4X. So the potential of a rear wheel drive vehicle is greater than a front wheel drive vehicle. That is why vertaly all performance/race cars are rear wheel drive (F-1, Indy, Nascar).

Plus I would like to see you drift a front wheel drive car. In the world of automobile there are drivers and there are operators. I consider my self a driver, and I prefer a rear wheel drive with a manual transmission. You wont see that on the 11 X.

 

[thaywood]

For a police cruiser/interceptor I would take AWD over anything. Better acceleration/traction and cornering in unfamiliar and/or unexpected roads (during chases for example).

@gman
When I think performance, SUVs do not come to mind, in fact I would be much more likely to think of a car before a heavy SUV, V8 or otherwise. Most vehicles today have a very close 50/50 weight distribution so the balance point is moot. Not all race vehicles are RWD. Rally cars come to mind. I'm no import fan but you'll need nothing short of a 400HP LS2 to beat an AWD STi off the line. Driver skill equal, an AWD vehicle can easily keep up with an equally powerful RWD vehicle (Viper/Vette versus STi/Skyline for example)

What? FWD vehicles are not even close to 50/50! What have you been smoking Most wrong-wheel-drive vehicles have around 60/40 F/R weight distribution. RWD vehicles are much better than that. Some, like most BMW's, are closer to 50/50. But you will never, ever get 50/50 out of a wrong-wheel-drive vehicle without some kind of ballast in the back.

I grew up driving nothing but RWD, in fact I've really never driven FWD as a daily driver. It's all been RWD or AWD. Most of this growing up was on a farm in the Midwest, I just happen to live in the city these days. Most farmers rely solely on pick-up trucks, not SUVs. They don't buy them because they're RWD, they buy them because they're 4WD/AWD and have hauling/towing abilities. Towing is just subject to traction, engine power and frame strength.

As of right now, Ford's only market for the 2011 X is North America where 90% of its inhabitants have access to paved roads. If that weren't the case, everybody would be driving super off-road rigs.

With that said, I enjoy my RWD (2WD) Ranger on rainy days and snowy parking lots

Now, you have to remember that there are different types of AWD. There's the type that Subaru uses which is full-time. That means that all 4 wheels are powered all the time. The Subie's system is also better balanced because the engine and transmission are mounted properly north-south like a RWD layout for better weight distribution. Then there's the part-time AWD like the Tar-Ass and Flexplorer. In a wrong-wheel-drive vehicle, that means that the vehicle is FWD under most driving conditions. The rear wheels engage only in the event of front wheel slip. To me, that is not a true AWD and certainly not real 4WD. There again, there are part-time AWD systems that are rear-biased like the Mercedes 4Matic and BMW AWD systems. In those, the rear wheels are the drive wheels and the fronts only engage when needed. Either way, with or without part time AWD, a FWD car will have all the inherent problems of a FWD car.

Wrong. Way wrong. Torque steer only happens when you accelerate REALLY hard. Most of the time, driving a FWD you'll never experience torque steer. And it's not caused because the engine is connected to the steering column (really? I can't believe I just read that.... total facepalm). Torque steer is caused from the unequal axle lengths due to the differential usually being off center in the front. And if a RWD with enough power accelerates fast enough, you'll also be faced with steering issues.

This I have to disagree with. Torque steer is a problem in ALL FWD cars. Even the crappy Chevy Impala we have at work torque steers...all the freakin' time! Even under very easy take-off, that thing torque steers like a ****. And don't even think about nailing the gas to pass someone or you'll end up in the left lane and then the ditch. I hate that car. Our other company car, a Taurus, doesn't do it as badly because it's only got 140hp. But it's guilty too. God, I hate wrong-wheel-drive with a passion! However, you are correct about the reason for torque steer. Axle wind up is the cause. Even with equal-length half-shafts, there will still be torque steer. Especially if the car has more than say 200hp going to the wrong wheels.

The only steering issue you'll find with hard accelerating RWD cars is throttle oversteer. That's when the rear end steps out when the wheels are spinning (I love doing that!). It's a helluva lot more fun than fighting torque steer.

 

[thaywood]

Every.

Except:

This one is GREAT:

Oh good grief. Those aren't real police cars. They're just around town "gopher" cars. Most of the cops I know hate those friggin' Impalas. They all love their P71's.

 

[2TimingTom]

The advantage of rear wheel drive veres front wheel drive is obvious. Assuming 50/50 weitht distribution. Each tires has a certan traction value, well call it X. So the ability of the vehicle to corner is dependent on 4X. A front wheel car uses the front axle for primary braking, steering and acceleration. A rear wheel drive car uses the front axle for primary braking, and steering. That leaves the rear axle for acceleration. That means that the rear wheel vehicle can use the 4X value for traction, the front wheel vehicle has to use a traction value of less than 4X. So the potential of a rear wheel drive vehicle is greater than a front wheel drive vehicle. That is why vertaly all performance/race cars are rear wheel drive (F-1, Indy, Nascar).

Plus I would like to see you drift a front wheel drive car. In the world of automobile there are drivers and there are operators. I consider my self a driver, and I prefer a rear wheel drive with a manual transmission. You wont see that on the 11 X.

I, and many others like me, have successfully campaigned FWD cars to regional, divisional, and national class titles in autocross, beating out some RWD classmates.

But like you said, there are drivers and there are operators. Some drivers are better than others.

While most drivers perfer a RWD performance car, it doesn't mean that you can't still be fast in a FWD.

And while your math is a little goofy, it proves your point. BUT, 99% of vehicles rarely use 100% of their traction available while cornering. So really, for the bulk of the driving population, it's not an issue. Very few people have ever driven their car (or any car) to its limit.

And I still maintain that torque steer is not an issue on FWD when driven by a "normal" person in normal conditions. Wait...... let me check the news.......... Oh, this just in: millions of FWD vehicles worldwide have all crashed in wild fits or torque steer prompting a massive recall of all FWD cars ever produced.

 

[2TimingTom]

Oh good grief. Those aren't real police cars. They're just around town "gopher" cars. Most of the cops I know hate those friggin' Impalas. They all love their P71's.

Really? Those look like police cars to me. That Wichita car- that's all the department had when I lived there. Please enlighten us as to what a "real" police car is. Could one of those "fake" FWD police cars pull you over and could the "fake" policeman driving it issue you a "real" ticket? Sounds like a "real" police car to me.

And FYI, the cops I know, hate when they get assigned to the department's P71 (Crown Vic) cruiser. They'd much rather be in the Tahoe cruisers.

 

[EX-SV]

Who cares about fake vs. real police cars, lol.

Most likely the new 2011 Explorer will easily outsell the last few years of 4th gen or current Explorer (specifically model years 2006/2007/2008/2009/2010), not that it's a huge hurdle.

 

[sabasigh]

St. Louis MO city/county PD moved from Crown Vics to Impalas:

Some smaller local municipalities still use Crown Vics, with some Dodge Chargers thrown in.