new intake problems

[RickOTR]

Ok people listen up... I e-maled Doug at Bama Chips and here is what he had to say.


Hey Rick,

No sir I cannot. I dont use nor recommend Pro-M meters because they are
junk. You are finding out why I dont. The way they calibrate their meters
is doing nothing but confusing the computer into thinking something other
then what it is doing and this isn't good. I could possibly dynotune your
truck, or another SCT dealer could, but by the time you paid for that you
would have another $500 in your MAF setup, $379 for the X-2 and $100 plus
for the dynotune and time.

Do yourself a favor and reinstall the factory meter and use a good cold air
kit, you'll get the best results that way.

I will order a computer chip from Bama Chips but continue to use the Pro-M meter until I get the new chip from them calibrated to my 24lb injectors. I will also do what he said and hook up my adapter to the stock MAF and see what happens after installing the chip. Then I will sick it up the a$$ of Pro-M.

Thanks for your help guys

 

[spindlecone]

Rick
When you get ready to stick the pro-M up somebodys ass, I will buy it from you in a heart beat.
Alot of pro-m users, on many forums have nothing but good to say about them, so let me know when your ready to sell it.
There are reasons for one mans biased opinion of the pro-M, sadly, it has nothing to do with the product itself.

 

[performancenut]

Rick
When you get ready to stick the pro-M up somebodys ass, I will buy it from you in a heart beat.
Alot of pro-m users, on many forums have nothing but good to say about them, so let me know when your ready to sell it.
There are reasons for one mans biased opinion of the pro-M, sadly, it has nothing to do with the product itself.

Spindle, are you saying you will take the MAF either before or after it has had ass exposure?

 

[spindlecone]

Spindle, are you saying you will take the MAF either before or after it has had ass exposure?

No, thats not what I said, I said I would buy it from you, at a reduced rate of course since you feel its a piece of crap.
If its calibrated for 19 lb injectors, chrome body, will give you a hun for it, plus shipping.
After what Doug told you, the maf is useless (to you)
Let me know

 

[performancenut]

No, thats not what I said, I said I would buy it from you, at a reduced rate of course since you feel its a piece of crap.
If its calibrated for 19 lb injectors, chrome body, will give you a hun for it, plus shipping.
After what Doug told you, the maf is useless (to you)
Let me know

Sorry spindle, I never said it. You'll have to go back to the source.

 

[spindlecone]

take a hun for it. or put it in the re-cycle bin, your call

 

[performancenut]

take a hun for it. or put it in the re-cycle bin, your call

Down boy; it'll be OK. Things will work out just fine.

 

[Doug904]

Rick
When you get ready to stick the pro-M up somebodys ass, I will buy it from you in a heart beat.
Alot of pro-m users, on many forums have nothing but good to say about them, so let me know when your ready to sell it.
There are reasons for one mans biased opinion of the pro-M, sadly, it has nothing to do with the product itself.

Sure,you call it what you want but I call it mine and everyone at SCT's experienced tuning opinion. Don't take my word for it, call Don Lasota of Lasota Racing Technology....

Any Ford MAF as well as the SCT MAFs are NOT calibrated for any injector size. The injector size is set in the ECU. We do NOT recommend MAFs that are 'calibrated' to injector size mainly because the calibration is usually not correct and the curve is out of line. These types of MAFs also skew load calculations throwing timing calculations off. We CAN work with these types of MAFs, but driveability will usually never be as good as stock

The readings he's posted in themselves tell you that they have adjusted the output of the MAF and this is why it's turning on the CEL because it isn't within the 30% allowable MAX at in closed loop operation. It's actually reaching it's max adjustment and then changing over to Open loop fuel controll and illuminating the CEL, also when it does this it doesn't make any further adjustments to the fueling based on TRUE 02 sensor readings but only goes by what it is programmed for in the PCM and this isn't good when the MAF is sending a false reading to begin with.

I've not followed this post much but I'll tell you guys this. By simply installing larger injectors you are not going to gain more HP. Getting a good cold air intake and exhaust will do more for your power then you'll ever imagine. If just throwing fuel at it was good for HP then why not command a 12.1 or 11.5:1 a/f ratio? Would you think this would increase power?


I just dynotuned a 4.0 Mustang that made 208rwhp and 242 rwtq and the only thing done to it was the C&L cold air kit and an H-pipe with flowmaster mufflers. The big difference here has to be in the Mustang camshafts, I would say that they are different and in fact better for larger HP numbers. He made 195rwhp without any tuning but with the H-pipe and mufflers.

I'll be happy to do your tuning guy and if you are close I'll dynotune it for you as well. We can get the Pro-M to work for you but like I've DYNOTESTED before it's not worth the effort.

Thanks, Doug.

 

[Doug904]

the 24lb injectors are calibrated to the Pro-M MAF and have given me a dyno proven 20 rwhp gain.

The 20 rwhp is because the engine is running at a different load value and therefore not giving it the correct amount of spark, in your case it is giving it more spark at a higher load value and that is where your 20 rwhp gain is coming from.

Spark tables on the 4.0 SOHC's are created using Load vs. Engine RPM's. Load is calculated from the amount of air taken measured from the MAF and then compared to the amount of air that the engine displacement in the PCM is setup to read for. At lower loads you will have more spark, if your MAF isn't reading properly then your load will stay alot lower then it should be. With your Calibrated MAF the way it is setup is it ratio's the MAF's output readings by the stock injectors divided by the new injector size. So, your output voltage will be 80% of what it should be at all times. So now at full throttle as you would be on the dyno instead of being at 85% load you'll be at 68% load which would be two lines down on the spark table. On a 97 SOHC that can be as much as 5-10 degrees of timing. BUT also remember that Fuel tables are based on load VS rpm too and instead of commanding 13.0 or 12.7 like it should it may only be commanding 14.0 or 14.2 because of the lower load situation.

Like I said before, messing with the MAF should only be done in the PCM not by confusing the signal from it.

Thanks Doug.

 

[spindlecone]

the C& L is a product you sell, correct?
Doug, you are one of the best, no question, but your only one of many SCT tuners
what say I send you my flasher, I have room for one more tune.
My best to date with my mods is 196.5 RWHP, 224.4 RWTQ, A/F is 12.8
You tune the flasher, will pay for the deed and all shipping of course.
will go jump on the Dyno the day it gets back to me, and report the results one hour later on this site, deal?

 

[Turdle]

Doug, as you know I expressed interest earlier. I had a feeling the whole deal of a reflash was going to set me back quite a few $$$.
So are you saying you can or cannot work around a pro-m meter. With my setup I would need at least a 80 mm maf, and I'm assuming you cannot reflash Apten flip- chips.
I have Finally located an awd dyno ( $100 per hour)
What exactly am I going to need to get this all together, to work with my 42 lb injectors and engine setup?
Sorry to hijack thread but Doug's attention is here,
It's on subject

 

[performancenut]

the C& L is a product you sell, correct?
Doug, you are one of the best, no question, but your only one of many SCT tuners
what say I send you my flasher, I have room for one more tune.
My best to date with my mods is 196.5 RWHP, 224.4 RWTQ, A/F is 12.8
You tune the flasher, will pay for the deed and all shipping of course.
will go jump on the Dyno the day it gets back to me, and report the results one hour later on this site, deal?

Isn't that unfair and with an unrealistic expectation; perhaps a knowledge defecit in that each vehicle has specific nuances- thus requiring a "tune" which adjusts for all variables on a particular vehicle to optimize the performance? The days of "mail-order chips are over; that's why a dynotune specifically addresses your vehicle. Even new vehicles off the dealer lot have a variable peak horspower- thus a friend did dyno. testing until he found a maximum output Cobra!

 

[performancenut]

Doug, as you know I expressed interest earlier. I had a feeling the whole deal of a reflash was going to set me back quite a few $$$.
So are you saying you can or cannot work around a pro-m meter. With my setup I would need at least a 80 mm maf, and I'm assuming you cannot reflash Apten flip- chips.
I have Finally located an awd dyno ( $100 per hour)
What exactly am I going to need to get this all together, to work with my 42 lb injectors and engine setup?
Sorry to hijack thread but Doug's attention is here,
It's on subject

Although Doug can surely answer for himself, I think your answer was already given. Recall he talked about the transfer functions and how the variability in the Pro-M design exists. He can surely tune it for you, but the physical limitations of your specific MAF meter may prevent the best possible result.

 

[Doug904]

the C& L is a product you sell, correct?
Doug, you are one of the best, no question, but your only one of many SCT tuners
what say I send you my flasher, I have room for one more tune.
My best to date with my mods is 196.5 RWHP, 224.4 RWTQ, A/F is 12.8
You tune the flasher, will pay for the deed and all shipping of course.
will go jump on the Dyno the day it gets back to me, and report the results one hour later on this site, deal?

Hey guy,

I'm coming back out to San Fransico after the new year, probably more so around Febuary for some more tuning for EE. If you want to show up for a dynotune then I would glady tune your vehicle for the best power possible there. After all of my own personal experiences with the Pro-M and with the given that we have the ability to tune it at the dyno I would much rather do it this way. Besides, I'm sure you wouldn't mind a dynotune? My normal cost for tuning is $85 an hour on the dyno and that includes the tunes we come up with. You would be responsible for the dynotime as that varries at each dyno I use.

With a Pro-M they each are different, yet another quality issue, as the one I did on Aldive's truck which was Monmix's is still a bit off on the owner's vehicle. #1 I dont do Supercharger Tuning mail order, except for Explorer Express's and that's only because I've done enough of them to know what to expect and I supply their MAF's for the setups too(Ford 80mm GT MAF's). Now I can make a tune to get anyone close, or atleast enough to crank and run and then you can find your local SCT dealer and I'll send them the file I've made for you and allow them to fine tune it OR you can bring it to me and I'll do it for you.

The reason for this is simple, just as everyone has seen here there are WAY too many variables to encompass every vehicle. Even loading the MAF tables in the SCT software for specific MAF's I still have to adjust them to get it perfect. Example, I just tuned a 02 Vortech S/C Gt on the dyno, I've done more then 10 Vortech'd S/C gt's on the dyno now with 80mm Lightning meters and to this day Ican load a value and get it close but each one requires a different transfer function to get it perfect.

I guess what I'm trying to say is if you change MAF's then you need to either have it tuned with a wideband 02 sensor to ensure your a/f or on a dyno that uses one.

Thanks!! Doug.

 

[RickOTR]

Hey Doug thanks for all the imput. Unfortunately I don't have the time too have you dynotune my X as I am very busy right now. I will reinstall the OEM MAF when I get a chip, and see what happens from there. Sorry Spindlecone already have the Pro-M sold, and as for my project 4.6 explore that stays a secret... sorry guys.

 

[RickOTR]

Ok, got a new computer chip and kept the 75 mm MAF but took the OEM MAF sensor off and exchanged it with the OEM sensor, and all works fine now. What a big difference in performance then what I had.