No Crank, No Start

[Drying_Pan]

Hello guys. Please help. I get lights on my dashboard, but when I turn the key I get nothing but a low electric sounding hum. I can't even jump start my car. My dad seore I just needed a new battery, so I got one. I didn't know how old old old one was anyway. No change. Next I put a new starter in ( my car is the type that has the starter and the solenoid in one). No change.
Maybe some sort of electrical issue? I don't really know how to diagnose that. Any ideas?
2001 Ford Explorer sport 4WD

 

[96eb96]

Check ALL cables that they are very clean and have near zero resistance.

Do you have a fender mounted solenoid?

 

[Tech By Trade]

Sounds like PATS to me.

 

[Drying_Pan]

Check ALL cables that they are very clean and have near zero resistance.

Do you have a fender mounted solenoid?

I dont know how to check resisitance, but before i installed my new starter i wiped off the old leads with a dry paper towel.
I also dont see another solenoid mounted neither at the battery or the passenger corner.

 

[Drying_Pan]

Sounds like PATS to me.

So if I could hotwire the car with that tell me lol? Not that I know how to hotwire a car.

 

[Tech By Trade]

Pats wont let you hotwire the car, thats the problem. It isn't reading the transponder in the key.

 

[koda2000]

It's not a PATS problem. PATS would not prevent the starter from turning the engine over. PATS turns off the fuel injectors. Thread title says "no crank, no start".

Clean your battery cable terminals with a battery brush.

Make sure your cables are not loose, swollen and/or lumpy looking.

Swap the starter relay and examine the electrical socket for corrosion

Check your ground connection

Try starting in neutral

Examine the thin wire going to the starter solenoid

 

[Drying_Pan]

So my dad brought me his multimeter. I connected to the negative batt post and the negative solenoid post. I needed to unmount my starter to get to it, and set up a video since i'm by myself. Anyway i got 6.39 volts when I set the key to start. I could also hear what i think was the starter clack. What does this info point to?

 

[1998Exp]

Do you mean you measured 6.39V BETWEEN the battery negative and the solenoid ground? If so there is significant resistance along the ground path. Your first suspect is the battery negative cable and its connection to the engine block. They tend to rot inside the insulation, so it's not readily visible. Also look for a loose bolt at the block connection.

So my dad brought me his multimeter. I connected to the negative batt post and the negative solenoid post. I needed to unmount my starter to get to it, and set up a video since i'm by myself. Anyway i got 6.39 volts when I set the key to start. I could also hear what i think was the starter clack. What does this info point to?

 

[Drying_Pan]

My new starter came with a short lead to the ground. It was supposed to crimp onto the old lead, but i assumed it was good and put it to the side. Would i be looking at extending that lead and clamping it to the negative batt post?

Is it ok as a designated line? I because there is a lot cables on the neg batt post im not sure about messing with. Or should i leave the lead in on the starter with a new one to the battery?

 

[koda2000]

I've never seen a ground wire on a starter motor. There's no need for one as the starter is bolted to the engine and the engine is supposed to be grounded to the NEG side of the battery.

Starter motors typically have the POS battery cable connected to the starter solenoid and a thin wire which goes to the ignition switch or starter relay. When the key is turned to START the starter solenoid is energized and transfers battery voltage to the starter motor. Sometimes you will have other wires connected to the starter motor, but they are just used as a convenient place to draw power from.

You either have an extremely dead battery or a bad connection somewhere. Have you checked the voltage across the battery terminals? You should see at least 12.6 volts on a charged battery.

Free wiring diagrams can be found at the link below. Use rrcc and rebsco to log-in, go to the auto repair reference section, enter your vehicle info and look at the diagram for Starter.

http://search.ebscohost.com/

 

[Drying_Pan]

Sorry I was misusing the term ground. The spare lead i have does in fact go to th negative battery post. I'd still like to know how I should re-wire this.
Also with what you mentioned about battery voltage, i just bought a battery two days ago as my first guess to the problem. I appear to be getting 12.31 V though. This is the one I bought.
http://m.advanceautoparts.com/h5/r/...-1/2040115-P?navigationPath=L1*14920|L2*15000

 

[jwinker]

Voltage is only 1/2 the problem, amps make the engine turn over. But, since your battery is new, probably not the cause.

Trace your ground cable from the battery to...wherever?....and clean the contact points, both at the battery and at the block. Start with the connection at the battery, then use the multimeter to make sure you have equal voltage across the battery terminals and from the positive terminal to the end of the ground cable. If it's not the same, replace the cable.

If it is the same, try measuring the voltage between the positive terminal and anywhere else that should be grounded. Try the hood latch assembly, for example? Or a fender bolt that has some paint scraped off? You should see a nominal drop in voltage between the positive battery terminal and anywhere on the chassis.

If all of that checks out and you're still just getting a click, try turning the engine over manually. Get a socket that fits the front crankshaft bolt and a breaker bar or large ratchet that will let you turn it. Can you move the engine, or is it seized? If one (or more) of your injectors leaked fuel into the cylinder, you may have hydraulically locked your engine. That's really bad, by the way.

 

[Drying_Pan]

Ok so it lloks like I've been using the multimeter wrong. Now what i did:
I set the multimeter to measure for 20V. I put one lead on the block. I put anotber lead on the positive post (the big one) on the solenoid. With the key in start i get nothing i may get 0.03V but usually flat 0. What does that mean?
None of my fuses appear to be blown. My starter still seems to make a clunk sound when the key is turned. I have it unmounted by the way.

 

[1998Exp]

Make sure the meter is measuring DC Volts. It will read 0 on AC.

Ok so it lloks like I've been using the multimeter wrong. Now what i did:
I set the multimeter to measure for 20V. I put one lead on the block. I put anotber lead on the positive post (the big one) on the solenoid. With the key in start i get nothing i may get 0.03V but usually flat 0. What does that mean?
None of my fuses appear to be blown. My starter still seems to make a clunk sound when the key is turned. I have it unmounted by the way.

 

[Turdle]

Did you try swapping the starter relay?

 

[Drying_Pan]

Did you try swapping the starter relay?

Yes

 

[Drying_Pan]

Make sure the meter is measuring DC Volts. It will read 0 on AC.

Its hard to tell on this meter, but im sure its measuring DC if I'm getting 12V at to battery.

 

[koda2000]

When you say the "big" lug on the solenoid, Are you talking about the solenoid on the starter? That should always read 12 volts, key ON start or not. That's like checking voltage at the battery unless your POS battery cable is not carrying any voltage to the starter.

I once had a guy buy a brand new battery, take it out to the parking lot and install it himself. He came back in a few minutes later to tell me the battery was no good. No power at all. I went outside and took a look. Turned out he had installed the NEG battery cable over the black plastic protective shipping cover on the NEG terminal. Weird things can happen.

 

[Drying_Pan]

When you say the "big" lug on the solenoid, Are you talking about the solenoid on the starter? That should always read 12 volts, key ON start or not. That's like checking voltage at the battery unless your POS battery cable is not carrying any voltage to the starter.

I once had a guy buy a brand new battery, take it out to the parking lot and install it himself. He came back in a few minutes later to tell me the battery was no good. No power at all. I went outside and took a look. Turned out he had installed the NEG battery cable over the black plastic protective shipping cover on the NEG terminal. Weird things can happen.

That sounds like my problem then, the not getting 12 volts constant part i mean. Am I looking buying and installing a new positive battery cable? Is there a valid shortcut?