No Start - Seems to be fuel pump or fuel pressure issue!

[Parker Lewis]

Hey guys, I'm new here, been lurking for months but finally decided to join because this is a great forum with a ton of help, so thanks for that. Before I start please know that i read about 20 threads on fuel topics and searched a ton of times on this forum. This forum is awesome!

OK, my 97 Explorer (see sig.) has 106k miles, I have all the records from the original owner and I believe this truck has the original fuel pump still. Drove it on a couple of errands last Sunday, about 20 miles in all. Went to start it later in the day and it just cranks and won't start. Sounds like it's not getting fuel. I had my wife cycle the key and I put my head by the rear wheel well and I definitely hear the fuel pump spinning back there when the key is in the on position. It'll wind for about 2 seconds, the typical fuel pump high pitched whine. Then just to make sure, I pulled out the fuel pump relay under the hood and stuck my head back there again, no fuel pump spinning, so i know i'm not just hearing random noises, power is definitely getting to the fuel pump. So then I took off the cap on the Schrader valve on the drivers side fuel rail on top of the motor, i pressed in the little pin inside the valve, and it just dribbles gas. I would think it should squirt gas under some good pressure, for sure more than a dribble, maybe squirt several inches out of the valve. Anyway, i cycled the key a few more times to prime the fuel pump and same result, just a little dribble of fuel from the Schrader valve.

So, is it possible the fuel pump is in fact running but just not pumping enough pressure? The fuel filter was replaced just 15,000 miles ago so I'd like to think it is good.

For comparison I did the same thing to the Schrader valve in my 2011 Ram and it squirted a good foot of gas out of it! Could have shot a low flying bird out of the air! I know the Ram is probably returnless fuel system so its under higher pressure, but its all I had to check it against.

Any help is greatly appreciated! Thank you for taking time to read this.

 

[drdoom]

Yeah, definitely get a fuel pressure gauge on that. How much fuel is in the tank?

 

[Parker Lewis]

The tank is kind of low. The low fuel light was on, then i added 2 gallons, so maybe about 3 gallons in the tank altogether?

Also, does it matter if parked on a hill? I'm wondering if the tank is sumped in such a way so that the tilt of the truck will affect the fuel pump pickup? Right now its parked on a hill with the front end lower than the rear. I can roll it into the street to get it level but I'm worried if it doesn't start then i'm stuck since I won't be able to push it up into my driveway.

 

[Turdle]

yes, especially if it is pointing downhill.

 

[joesilvia92]

The tank is kind of low. The low fuel light was on, then i added 2 gallons, so maybe about 3 gallons in the tank altogether?

Also, does it matter if parked on a hill? I'm wondering if the tank is sumped in such a way so that the tilt of the truck will affect the fuel pump pickup? Right now its parked on a hill with the front end lower than the rear. I can roll it into the street to get it level but I'm worried if it doesn't start then i'm stuck since I won't be able to push it up into my driveway.

The hill could have something to with it because the fuel pump is farther to the rear. Also check the fuel pump safety switch located under the glove box. Mine shorted out some how a while ago. So being in the woods I jumped the gap with a carter pin and never had a problem sense.

 

[Parker Lewis]

Thanks for the advice guys. As for jumpering the inertia switch, that's not necessary since i can verify the pump spinning when the fuel pump relay is plugged in, and not spinning when the fuel pump relay is removed, so power is getting there and not interuppted by the inertia switch.

I have very weak pressure at the fuel rail Schrader valve, so I'm thinking either the pump is faulty, or perhaps due to the low level of fuel in the tank and the tilt of the hill I'm parked on then the fuel pump pickup is no submerged in gas. I'll get it on flat ground tonight and see if it makes a difference. If not then i guess time to install a new pump.

Thanks again.

 

[joesilvia92]

Thanks for the advice guys. As for jumpering the inertia switch, that's not necessary since i can verify the pump spinning when the fuel pump relay is plugged in, and not spinning when the fuel pump relay is removed, so power is getting there and not interuppted by the inertia switch.

I have very weak pressure at the fuel rail Schrader valve, so I'm thinking either the pump is faulty, or perhaps due to the low level of fuel in the tank and the tilt of the hill I'm parked on then the fuel pump pickup is no submerged in gas. I'll get it on flat ground tonight and see if it makes a difference. If not then i guess time to install a new pump.

Thanks again.

Yea just try it on level ground and it wouldn't hurt to check your fuel filter.

 

[idoticsoigpa]

Had that same problem a few years ago. Got back from a trip with a low fuel gauge, backed into the driveway, on a hill with the front lower than the back. Unloaded vehicle and then it cranked but wouldn't start. Put gasoline in and it started right up. Only time it ever behaved like that.

 

[mlochala]

Parker, this sounds EXACTLY like the issues I've had with my '98 Mountaineer in the past.

Whenever it would get low on gas, it was very sensitive stalling on hills and even slight inclines. It would even do this when stopping at intersections. The problem got further aggravated when I replaced the OEM fuel pump with an aftermarket one. After replacing the original fuel pump, mine began stalling with the tank 1/4 full. It became more than annoying; it became a real issue of safety.

Here's how I fixed mine:

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=343329

So far, I'm not having these issues anymore. Suffice it to say I'm quite happy with the results.

 

[mlochala]

In my opinion, I don't think the fuel pump bracket extends deep enough into the gas tank. Another 1/2" or so of depth would make a huge difference. I lowered mine approximately 5/8".

Also, the location and position of the fuel pump and strainer is suspect as well. The fuel pump sits to the rear and right up against the left side of the tank. The strainer actually rests right against the side of the fuel tank reservoir.

You may experience the problem of stalling also when making sharp or hard left hand turns.

 

[drdoom]

yes, especially if it is pointing downhill.

+1 I have had to roll down to level ground before with 1/4 tank.

 

[Parker Lewis]

Hey thanks for all the advice guys. I'm going to put it on flat ground tonight and see what happens, have to winch it up into my garage. I really appreciate all of your help so far, you're a great bunch of guys!

I'll post an update in a few hours.

Thanks again.

 

[Parker Lewis]

Well once the kids were in bed had some free time. Spent about an hour with a come-along winching the Explorer up into the garage. It took so long because I had to keep repositioning the straps as the come-along only takes up about 4' at a time. Anyway, got it onto the level garage floor, primed the fuel pump one time with the key on, then cranked her and she fired up and ran fine! At this point the tank was reading just under 1/4 so I drove to the gas station and filled it up.

This lends some more fact to the post above about the fuel pump pickup not being positoned low enough. I've only owned this Explorer for about 5 months and 3,000 miles but I have noticed in that time that when i park on a hill with the rear end higher than the front then the gas gauge reads way low, that's what triggered my thoughts about the pump not being submerged in the tank when parked on this slope. I guess I'll have to give some thought to modifying the pump assembly as mentioned above, or just be sure to keep it above 1/3 of a tank.

Thanks a lot guys for taking time to offer advice. I appreciate and will do the same when i can help someone else out.

In other news, how long does a fuel pump typically last? With all this fuel pump threads i've been reading i'm wondering if i should replace mine soon just as preventive maintenance. My Explorer just hit about 107k miles and as far as I can tell from the records I got from the original owner it is still on its original fuel pump.

 

[mlochala]

This lends some more fact to the post above about the fuel pump pickup not being positoned low enough. I've only owned this Explorer for about 5 months and 3,000 miles but I have noticed in that time that when i park on a hill with the rear end higher than the front then the gas gauge reads way low, that's what triggered my thoughts about the pump not being submerged in the tank when parked on this slope. I guess I'll have to give some thought to modifying the pump assembly as mentioned above, or just be sure to keep it above 1/3 of a tank.

Years ago, not too long after we purchased our Mountaineer, my wife and I went to dinner at a popular local restaurant. The parking lot in the restaurant had a fairly steep slope where we had to park. At the time we went to dinner, we had just below 1/4 tank of gas. Later that evening when we went to leave, it wouldn't crank to save our lives. Fortunately, there was a gas station across the road. One pint of fuel injector cleaner was just barely enough fuel to get it started again and limp across the road to get more gas. That was the first time we became aware of the issue.

Believe it or not, I was dumb enough to repeat that incident a year or so later...same restaurant, same parking spot...:scratch: Consider me a slow learner.

Prior to doing the modifications I mentioned in my other thread, I went through an exhausting process of elimination to make sure there wasn't anything else at fault that was causing this issue. Looking back, I wish I had measured the depth of the tank and compared it to the depth of the pickup in the beginning. It would have saved me a LOT of trouble. I took the tank off about 6 times before I finally and really got it fixed.

Just two weeks before, I had changed the fuel pump in my Toyota and it went without a hitch. BTW, it's a 15 minute job to remove the tank from a Toyota truck. It takes me about 40 minutes to get the tank out from under my Mountaineer. That includes the multi-step process of jacking it up high enough to get the tank out from under it.

In other news, how long does a fuel pump typically last? With all this fuel pump threads i've been reading i'm wondering if i should replace mine soon just as preventive maintenance. My Explorer just hit about 107k miles and as far as I can tell from the records I got from the original owner it is still on its original fuel pump.

Our Mountaineer had about 160,000 miles on it when I replaced the pump. It had given very little indication that the pump was going bad when it did. We had noticed that it hadn't been as responsive to the accelerator as before. Finally, we were leaving for church one Sunday evening when about 1/2 mile from the house it just sputtered and died.

In my opinion - of course high mileage is definitely a factor - but I have a hunch this ethanol gas is a major contributor to the failure of our fuel pumps. Ironically, within a month of changing the pumps on my Toyota and our Mountaineer, the fuel pump also went out on our Taurus.

 

[Parker Lewis]

mlochala, You are probably one of the fastest fuel tank droppers on this forum! Glad you did get your issues figured out, with plenty of fuel tank removing practice along the way. I appreciate your advice on this thread, and also to the others who offered me advice. Now I know i need to make sure not to let my fuel tank get below 1/4 or even 1/3, or I need to modify the pump assembly.

I did order a fuel pump the other day thinking that's what i'd need. Maybe i'll just keep it in case my pump goes out in the next year or so? It is a Delphi part #HP10128, not just the pump but the complete basket assembly. Got it on Amazon for $130 shipped. I suppose that was a decent deal since Rockauto has it for about $150.

 

[bobflood]

In other news, how long does a fuel pump typically last? With all this fuel pump threads i've been reading i'm wondering if i should replace mine soon just as preventive maintenance. My Explorer just hit about 107k miles and as far as I can tell from the records I got from the original owner it is still on its original fuel pump.

Still on original fuel pump; as you can see from my sig it's got a LOT of miles. I have experienced the same issue WRT parking on a slope at my son's house; now I park on street instead of driveway when visiting.

 

[drdoom]

Ford knows about this, it would be interesting to read what they have to say. I vaguely recall a TSB about this...