Oil change interval for a performance engine

[reserved50]

so we're back to guess work when to change it? or just let it get pitch black and say all the contaminants are in suspension. I've seen a few engines with the suspension theory, usually they all have wiped bearings with no material left on the cam lobes. I have also seen a few compressed liquid gas whatever engines that never have their oil changed because it does look very clean (Im talking about 15K intervals etc. or whenever they remember) and a few have over 200K and when their engines were torn down for other reasons their bearings were almost mint. Changing the oil before it gets very dark usually works for 99% of people. If someone has their own special method, great id like to hear it also

 

[aldive]

Its not prudent to base an OCI on oil color.

 

[Albino 94LTD]

John, you're missing half the point of oil analysis (in your case, more than half).

Most here are posting about whether the oil is still good or not.

I'm more interested in what's happening to the wear surfaces inside. If you're really concerned about your investment, wouldn't you want to know if you have excessive wear??

I would think you'd be all over analysis. You look at your plugs to double check air/fuel mixtures and combustion don't you?

 

[Turdle]

John, you're missing half the point of oil analysis (in your case, more than half).

Most here are posting about whether the oil is still good or not.

I'm more interested in what's happening to the wear surfaces inside. If you're really concerned about your investment, wouldn't you want to know if you have excessive wear??

I would think you'd be all over analysis. You look at your plugs to double check air/fuel mixtures and combustion don't you?

Very good point!!
I'm going to have one run at the 20,000 mile mark. I'm at~= 16400 on the engine now.

 

[Albino 94LTD]

Very good point!!
I'm going to have one run at the 20,000 mile mark. I'm at~= 16400 on the engine now.

I'm supprised this thread got to 3 pages before anyone brought that up.

 

[Donner]

It was mentioned 3x, no?

I think a better way to go would be to have a sample of oil tested (UOA) by Blackstone or another oil analysis company right after an event where you now change it because of "stress". Yes, you would have to pay for the analysis, but it will give you some idea of how well the oil is protecting your engine. I think you would find that you don't have to change so often. If I understand your post correctly, I think it is overkill to change that often if you are using a quality oil.

BTW, I have read second hand reports that the Super Tech oil is ok, verified by UOA by members on BITOG (bobistheoilguy.com).

Brand x synthetic, cheap stuff, would probably not help your engine. But who produces/sells brand x oil? Is it like name brand products at the grocery store cost $$, but the same maker sells them under a grocery store brand name and they only cost $ Is that the kind of oil you're using?

A suggestion, if I may. Change your oil, submit the Mounty to a range of driving conditions, including (occasionally) the most severe you can imagine for ~2 months. Then have an analysis performed on that oil, see where your oil is at that point. That should give you an indicator of how your engine is wearing and a better idea of how long to go between changes. I think there may be a benefit to running full syn vs. semi synthetic. That way you only have one analysis and a better understanding.

I'm supprised this thread got to 3 pages before anyone brought that up.

It was discussed, not as eloquently as you put it, but it was mentioned...

 

[Albino 94LTD]

Easy there

It was discussed, not as eloquently as you put it, but it was mentioned...

Yes Mountaineergreen did make reference to engine wear but even Dogfriend's comments are aimed at how well the oil is protecting the engine, not whether or not the engine wear can be determined from the priticulates carried off by the oil.

The oil can still be in great shape but the bearings, rings or other wear surfaces could have manufacturing flaws and be on the way out, no?

Just a little different perspective, from the engine side. itsallgood

 

[Turdle]

Well, it was brought up, but only for reasons of "oil life" to my understanding. I could give a hoot about my oil. That's why it goes in and out when it looks icky.
If I can't see through to the dipstick I'm getting it out. If it smells gassy, it's gone.
Now remember, my truck doesn't see highway speeds every time I drive it. In fact, it rarely sees those speeds.Also, it idles (effectively) rich because of camshaft, and tuning issues.I think the low speeds and short run times contaminate the oil real quick. There may be 2-3 days go by where it sits,or one day when it is started 10 times and run a total of 30 minutes. It's not only miles that destroy oil, but the factor of time is even worse.
what if it smells gassy?

 

[Donner]

Perfect!

Yes Mountaineergreen did make reference to engine wear but even Dogfriend's comments are aimed at how well the oil is protecting the engine, not whether or not the engine wear can be determined from the priticulates carried off by the oil.

The oil can still be in great shape but the bearings, rings or other wear surfaces could have manufacturing flaws and be on the way out, no?

Just a little different perspective, from the engine side. itsallgood

Well, it was brought up, but only for reasons of "oil life" to my understanding. I could give a hoot about my oil. That's why it goes in and out when it looks icky.
If I can't see through to the dipstick I'm getting it out. If it smells gassy, it's gone.
Now remember, my truck doesn't see highway speeds every time I drive it. In fact, it rarely sees those speeds.Also, it idles (effectively) rich because of camshaft, and tuning issues.I think the low speeds and short run times contaminate the oil real quick. There may be 2-3 days go by where it sits,or one day when it is started 10 times and run a total of 30 minutes. It's not only miles that destroy oil, but the factor of time is even worse.
what if it smells gassy?

Agreed

 

[dogfriend]

Yes Mountaineergreen did make reference to engine wear but even Dogfriend's comments are aimed at how well the oil is protecting the engine, not whether or not the engine wear can be determined from the priticulates carried off by the oil.

The oil can still be in great shape but the bearings, rings or other wear surfaces could have manufacturing flaws and be on the way out, no?

Just a little different perspective, from the engine side. itsallgood

Well, I agree with you, but in the original post JTSmith stated that he was changing oil every 4 to 6 weeks, so I was focused more on whether the oil is capable of longer intervals than that.

Ideally, doing a UOA will help with both; monitoring the wear elements (Fe, Cu, Al, etc) will give an indication of how the motor is doing, testing for TBN , viscosity, % water, etc will tell whether the oil can still do its job.

 

[reserved50]

for a serious problem one can cut the filter open and when draining the oil always use a magnetic drain plug? Thats how i found out I had pounded out one of my needle bearings from a roller lifter

 

[aldive]

From Blackstone Labs ....

Are you changing your oil often enough? Too often? Is that synthetic oil really worth it? A decade ago, the commercial multi-weight oils on the market were similar. We didn't see much difference in the various brands, and the only real choice for consumers was the grade. Then synthetics were introduced, as were many types of oil additives. Suddenly the question of what to put into your engine became more complicated.

Oil analysis can identify any problems developing in your engine long before they cause you an expensive headache. Or maybe you'd just like to get a good look at the microscopic wear your engine is producing. Can you run a fill of oil longer than 3000 miles? Are your oil and air filters doing a good job? We can answer these questions and more when you submit a sample of your engine oil for analysis.

 

[CDW6212R]

Very good Jon, we all gave perspectives, and I knew what you were thinking. I know about the idling/rich/start issues you mentioned, that's where 99% of all engine wear occurs. I also am fairly sure you have similar rich conditions as EECIV cars with odd sizing of injectors, and no PCM programming. That may affect the oil some, that smell would suggest it.

How again is your PCV operating, I would hope that you have a good vacuum inside the crankcase at all times? I am concerned about that for mine upcoming, plus when real boost is added. I'm thinking of adding as large of a vacuum box as possible, and plumbing it to the crankcase. Regards,

 

[justin146]

I am running Motorcraft Synthetic and drive about 2000 miles a year-- how often do you guys recommend changing my oil?

 

[aldive]

I am running Motorcraft Synthetic and drive about 2000 miles a year-- how often do you guys recommend changing my oil?

It would be hard to say without knowing the condition of the oil ( ie, UOA ).

 

[Albino 94LTD]

I am running Motorcraft Synthetic and drive about 2000 miles a year-- how often do you guys recommend changing my oil?

At 2000/year, if you change it now and put in Amsoil Signature Synthetic and an Amsoil filter, you could do a UOA in the year 2014 and it would probably still have a few years left.

 

[CDW6212R]

They suggest one year as a limit also.

 

[dogfriend]

I'm on a yearly schedule with my stock Explorer now. I have only been driving it about 1 - 2 k per year for the last couple of years. I use Mobil 1 5W30.

 

[rookieshooter]

jt, I'm wondering if changing that often is actually doing your bearings more harm then good in the long run. Each time you restart your engine after an oil change there is a slight down time until the pressure is sufficient enough to fill the air space between the bearings and crank/ rod journals. Even if you do try to get as much oil as possible in the filter. And on some filters the angle that there installed, it is impossible.
Unless you pull the distributor and stick some device down into the oil pump and prime the engine like I do before starting a new rebuilt engine. If you have a Real oil pressure gage that reads the actual pressure, just watch the down time before the pressure is peaked out. It just take a fraction of a second to score a bearing.
With that said I do mine every 3 months with new filter. Untill switching to Amsoil.
I really think you need to do the tests stated in other posts. Changing that high quality Amsoil that much is like taking sand to the beach. . .useless.