Planning a 5.0 Overhaul

[Turdle]

I would have to say no.
A low rpm miss under load sounds like a bad spark plug. Check them real good--look for a hairline crack on the insulators. Also, spark plug wires-boots.

Try also looking for arcing under the hood-have a helper hold down on the brake real good and give it a little gas so it can have a light load.

 

[JCase]

Hey TekMan, Have you done a 0-90mph WOT run with your beast yet? Or a WOT 1-2 shift from a dead stop to check for wheel spin?

Would you happen to have a video?

 

[TekMan05]

I would have to say no.
A low rpm miss under load sounds like a bad spark plug. Check them real good--look for a hairline crack on the insulators. Also, spark plug wires-boots.

Try also looking for arcing under the hood-have a helper hold down on the brake real good and give it a little gas so it can have a light load.

Oh wow never even thought of a miss. It must be one ever so slight that under normal rev acceleration you don't even feel. Thanks for the tip on that I'll look into that tonight. I "doubt" it's the boots simply because I just installed new Taylor wires and it actually lessened the vibration some and was doing this prior to replacing the wires. But I will check none the less.

 

[TekMan05]

Hey TekMan, Have you done a 0-90mph WOT run with your beast yet? Or a WOT 1-2 shift from a dead stop to check for wheel spin?

Would you happen to have a video?

I don't have any all out WOT videos yet. I'll have to find a spot out in the rural areas to do it. Hard to find a good spot to this heavy beast up to that speed from a dead stop here around the suburb area. I'll see what I can do though. But I won't have wheel spin because I'm still AWD. I really wish I had the money and know how to tackle the true 4X4 swap. That may be down the road though.

 

[ahodges]

I had a miss similar to this which ended up being 2 of the plug boots (they were brand new). Another thing to consider is if the torque converter is locked when you are feeling this. It could be that the torque converter is programed to lock at too low of rpms causing you to feel "chop" of the cam...

 

[TekMan05]

I had a miss similar to this which ended up being 2 of the plug boots (they were brand new). Another thing to consider is if the torque converter is locked when you are feeling this. It could be that the torque converter is programed to lock at too low of rpms causing you to feel "chop" of the cam...

I wonder a bout the torque converter. It lumpy when low rpm cruising between 12-1800 rpm's ONLY when my foot is barely giving it gas. It's more noticeable also when I have O/D on and less when I have it off. Not too noticeable on the highway. I worried about crank harmonic vibration but I'd figure I'd feel that regardless. Which leads me to ask, The only part of the ignition I haven't replaced is the Coil Packs. What would you guys recommend on that? I do notice it still long cranks at startup here and there and there still seems to be a SLIGHT hesitation as I was doing some WOT this past weekend.

Will this work? http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-MSD-Coil-...orer|Submodel:XLT&hash=item564f78bb1c&vxp=mtr

There's also this on Summit. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/acc-140018/overview/year/2000/make/ford/model/explorer

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dfp-gn10177/overview/year/2000/make/ford/model/explorer

 

[ahodges]

I wonder a bout the torque converter. It lumpy when low rpm cruising between 12-1800 rpm's ONLY when my foot is barely giving it gas. It's more noticeable also when I have O/D on and less when I have it off. Not too noticeable on the highway. I worried about crank harmonic vibration but I'd figure I'd feel that regardless. Which leads me to ask, The only part of the ignition I haven't replaced is the Coil Packs. What would you guys recommend on that? I do notice it still long cranks at startup here and there and there still seems to be a SLIGHT hesitation as I was doing some WOT this past weekend.

Will this work? http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-MSD-Coil-...orer|Submodel:XLT&hash=item564f78bb1c&vxp=mtr

There's also this on Summit. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/acc-140018/overview/year/2000/make/ford/model/explorer

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dfp-gn10177/overview/year/2000/make/ford/model/explorer

I don't recommend the MSD coil packs. I have a set of those on my truck which I'm about to switch out for stock ones again. I've developed miss kinda of like it is breaking up at WOT and higher rpms. Mine also long cranks every time when it is cold which I didn't know what to expect with the cam and all. Is the long cranking even with a large cam abnormal?

 

[TekMan05]

I don't recommend the MSD coil packs. I have a set of those on my truck which I'm about to switch out for stock ones again. I've developed miss kinda of like it is breaking up at WOT and higher rpms. Mine also long cranks every time when it is cold which I didn't know what to expect with the cam and all. Is the long cranking even with a large cam abnormal?

It's intermittent as sometimes it'll fire right up and other times it won't. That's interesting about the MSD, although I have heard the Motorcraft OEM's are good enough on our 5.0 Trucks. It just feels like there's still a slight miss somewhere. Can't hear it through the exhaust, no codes but my gas mileage also has been less than impressive. When I had my engine apart during the project alot of the ignition and air intake parts and sensors sat near the garage door on the ground or in a box on the ground. The seal on the door isn't the best so whenever it rained moisture could have seeped in at times. Because since the engine has been back up I have replaced the Crank Pos. sensor, The IAC sensor, Throttle Pos. sensor, Starter, Plugs, and wires. I still need to replace the upstream pass. bank o2 as well and see if that'll do anything. I'm still getting the rpm drop as well between "P" , "R", "D" shifts.That as well is intermittent , it feels like the colder it is when it decides to do that the lower the rpm drops. I wonder if it is "Cam" related.

 

[Limited02]

I can say I had an odd-ball experince with my 4.6. It was missing out like a SOB and I figured it was bad gas because two weeks later it was running good again. About a month after that, it started doing the same thing, only worse. Finally a CEL showed up and said I had a misfire on cylinder 1. I changed all the COP's last weekend and holy moly does it run A LOT smoother. For the last few years at idle, it had a small "lope" that was kind of anoying. Now the "lope" is almost non-existent at idle and it seems to pull stronger with less throttle input. Gas mileage is reading about 1 mpg better than normal as well... I purchased the Accel COP's of Amazon because they were cheap.

 

[TekMan05]

Ok, I just installed new coils the other day. And I know you recommended against MSD. I went ahead with them since they were performance and $1 cheaper on summit than the Ford OEM ones so I gave them a shot. I haven't driven too far yet with them just around town. I noticed a better throttle response, snappier shifts(Weird huh?) and the crank was normal or slightly quicker. So far so good, maybe you had a defective coil pack?? Either way I haven't drove too far because I also was fighting to replace the cylinder 5 flange header gasket. I can't get a hold of Bob for nothing so I can get some replacements. So in the mean time I used more of those modified 350 gaskets with some copper sealant. Felt pretty good after that. I'll keep you guys posted with more updates later on!

 

[TekMan05]

Found my miss, my possible vibration, my lack of real low end power, lack of good mpg, possible other issues. I bent some push rods today coming into work. Did a hard acceleration and heard a loud "POP". Engine still ran, still had some power, still sounded the same except the popping noise. Had to have her towed home tonight! Cylinder eight rockers were facing each other. All the push rods had damage from the guide plates. Need to come up with a solution quick. Luckily does not "Appear" the lower end is affected. So I may have caught a slight break with that. I'll get pics soon. Jon I'm really gonna need your Expertise with this one.

 

[TekMan05]

This is part of what we seen after pulling the valve cover initially. Yeah as you can see the rocker is not even making contact with the valve.

This is the after math of the push rod. There were only 2 Bent ones but ALL of them have that mushroom tip engraving on them from the guide plates. There's a few small nicks on the rockers.

 

[Turdle]

Man---that's not good.

Without seeing things up close I have to say something is hitting. Can you see any evidence of a rocker arm touching the inside of the valve cover?

 

[TekMan05]

Man---that's not good.

Without seeing things up close I have to say something is hitting. Can you see any evidence of a rocker arm touching the inside of the valve cover?

We checked when we pulled the cover off and it looked clean. The problem is that all the push rods are headed to their pre-mature deaths. They all have indentation grooves from the guide plates so eventually the whole valve train would have stopped. The valves looked alright and the rockers mechanically looked okay too. the two on Cylinder 8 had slight marks on them but that's all. Still haven't pulled the pass side off yet. Over the last 2 weeks that tapping sound had progressively gotten worse and worse and the stethoscope narrowed it nearly right on top of that area where this happened. Between cylinder 7 and 8. It just makes sense now that no matter how many times I tried fixing my "Exhaust leak" this noise persisted. It quieted at times but always came back. I guess if that was like that for a while in a sense it was like an internal leak if the valve was opening closing right. I'm just GLAD we caught it now and I didn't try to limp her the 15 1/2 miles home across open highway from the airport.
I just don't know what caused this, my mistake for beefing up the other valve train components and re-using stock push rods. This time I'm gonna have to see about getting the adjustable push rod and measuring out the EXACT size need and buying Stronger ones this time around. It's amazing that the truck ran as good as she did with essentially 7 cylinders. I'll try to get around to making a video so you can see it closer.

 

[TekMan05]

Flowtech said the issue was the stock push rods. They aren't designed for Guide plates. Got new 6.25'' 5/16'' Single piece Chromemoly push rods on the way from FTI. They recommended pulling the engine to make sure there's not any damage but I doubt it after seeing it. The two push rods never broke just bent and there was no shavings on the head. I will drain the oil for sure to be safe and get a better idea. After it bent the truck was not driven far before being shut off. On top of that is the speaker magnet on my pan as well. I'll keep folks updated.

http://www.flowtechinduction.com/fti-custom-one-piece-5-16-push-rods/

 

[TekMan05]

 

[JCase]

Man, that sucks. I'm sorry to hear about this after all the work you've done, but it's good to see your staying positive about though!

20/20 hindsight, the lack of hardend pushrods with your trick valvetrain components must have been the cause of all your issues, no doubt.

You say you did have a magnet on the oil pan? I would move it slowly toward the drain plug then drain the oil. After that, strain it to see if there are any chunks of metal.

::EDIT::

Looks like that was already the plan!

My bad, carry on sir...

 

[TekMan05]

Thanks man! I've talked to a few people and this doesn't seem to be an all to uncommon problem on built engines. Most seem to agree since the only bent and never broke and it happened at the top that it shouldn't be necessary to pull the engine out to check the rotating assembly/oil pump. So I'm just gonna wait to get these push rods which still haven't even shipped yet and when they get here re-adjust the rockers and etc. Hopefully this will make her run way better.

 

[TekMan05]

Quick update. My hardened push rods still have no shipped yet. I may just cancel the order and have my friend that works at O'Reilys order in some. And he can get the discount too. But because Snowmagaden 2 is on the way I REALLY had to get my truck back up at least for a while. So we went ahead and just replaced the push rods with oem ones for now.BUT , this time we took more time adjusting the Rockers. Instead of doing only one full turn with the poly locks. We did 1 and 1/8ths turn. They were tighter this time. We even used a starter tool to run a compression test. Before the cylinders were at about 150psi. This time around all 8 were at 165 psi. Good news, no bent valves. We changed the oil which looked fine. No metal fragments. Let me tell you, all those symptoms I was talking about as far as the RPM dip, The hesistation, Loud tapping sound, the lack of a hard lope, the low rpm vibration when under load. ALL GONE. She sounds beautiful. And the low end torque is Responsive and quick as hell. I can almost bet we just didn't get the valve trained tightened correctly and a little bit of curiosity definitely worked wonders. Yes though it will be torn down again once I get the right push rods. But now we know what needs to be done. I'll try to make a clip in the new few days so you can hear it.

 

[Turdle]

Thomas.
I am not sure if the Kansas City store is still there or not, but these guys might have them

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Street-Rod-Parts.html

I think they were down near 18th and southwest blvd.