Rebuilt engine is loud?

[elrynon]

Hey guys. Just got back from the shop with my ex. Had the engine rebuilt. Had the horrible timing chain rattle and cheapest place I could find to do the timing chain was $2500 and found a reputable shop to do a rebuild for $3500.

He did a complete tear down, New Pistons & Piston Rings, Re-manufactured Crankshaft, New Connecting Rod & Main Bearings, New Timing chain and Gears, New Oil Pump, New Complete Gasket Set, w/ New Front & Rear Crankshaft Seals, New Camshaft Bearings, New Brass Freeze Plugs, Valve job, with New Valve Seals, All Parts and Block are cleaned, Hot Tanked, Block Honed & Painted.

Now, I knew before hand that rebuilt engines aren't these whisper quiet "perfect" things until everything seats and he even mentioned when starting it that it would be a little noisy for about 200ish miles. Thing is though. This thing seems LOUD to me. I could just be paranoid but still. It's our only vehicle and I don't want to risk it. I took a video and put it up on youtube to see what you guys think. The sound has some echo to it and I was holding the phone right up to the engine because I wasn't sure how well the phone would pick up sound but you'll still get the idea. I'd really appreciate some input. Thanks everyone!

http://youtu.be/DM6BbOKRjh8

If you think I need to take a different video let me know and I'll do it asap.

 

[my98nnj]

I hope you have a warranty. I've never heard of a rebuilt engine running louder then a new engine. It should sound exactly the same. We rebuilt a grand national a while ago, even used a different cam, lifters and pistons. All performance parts, bigger turbo and reflashed ECU chip. Aside from the stupid power the thing put down, it didn't sound any different then a stock motor.

I think you have a problem here, might wanna go back and have a sit down with the shop that did the work. Depending on how that goes, I hope you know a good lawyer.

 

[2000StreetRod]

exhaust manifold leak?

I never can tell very much from listening to phone made videos posted on the internet but I suggest checking your exhaust manifolds for leaks. I've had pretty good luck isolating sound sources with using a flexible hose. It works better for me than the mechanic's stethoscope I bought. The hose works best detecting gas flow.

 

[koda2000]

I hope you have a warranty. I've never heard of a rebuilt engine running louder then a new engine. It should sound exactly the same. We rebuilt a grand national a while ago, even used a different cam, lifters and pistons. All performance parts, bigger turbo and reflashed ECU chip. Aside from the stupid power the thing put down, it didn't sound any different then a stock motor.

I think you have a problem here, might wanna go back and have a sit down with the shop that did the work. Depending on how that goes, I hope you know a good lawyer.

i agree. there's no reason a properly rebuilt engine should sound like that. a few hundred miles of break-in is required to allow the piston rings to seat, but if anything that's creating extra heat, not noise.

 

[elrynon]

*sigh* This is all what I was afraid of. I had watched a few videos of people starting up rebuilt engines and they didn't sound like this. (Like 2000streetrod said though, it's hard to tell from video how soft/loud things are) He offers a 3 year warranty BUT (and everything seemed really cool about him up until this point) when I went to sign the paperwork and pay him he said there's a $300 deductible in case they have to do a complete tear down and rebuild.

 

[my98nnj]

He offers a 3 year warranty BUT (and everything seemed really cool about him up until this point) when I went to sign the paperwork and pay him he said there's a $300 deductible in case they have to do a complete tear down and rebuild.

Just for the simple fact that he mentioned a complete tare down and rebuild would have been a good enough reason for me NOT to sign anything.

 

[elrynon]

Just talked to him on the phone and he was cool about everything. I mentioned how loud it was and he said that it shouldn't have gotten louder. (obviously) I asked about the $300 and he said that's a worst case scenario (If I went and beat the hell out of the engine before breaking it in. Overheating it, running it low on oil, etc) He said since it got louder right away it won't cost me anything, that it's covered under the warranty. Only thing that sucks is it's our only vehicle so that means I've got to rent a car again. He said he doesn't think it's a lifter/rod/piston because it would be EXTREMELY loud and sound like the engine is about to fall apart and the engine wouldn't run right either. Does this sound right to you guys? He said without seeing/hearing it (he doesn't trust video) that from the sound I described and it still running right he thinks it's the new timing cassette or possibly the new tensioners not working right.

 

[pbnj22]

Wouldn't have that problem with a v8! (Tokyo drift reference anyone?)
but for that kind of money i would expect him to fix it up again for free... but again you signed some papers so it all comes down to what you signed exactly and how much of an a$$ he wants to be.. sounds like he is pretty reasonable so hopefully it works out..

 

[2000StreetRod]

cam followers?

It didn't sound like valve train noise in the video but after rebuilding a SOHC V6 the hydraulic cam followers should be prefilled with oil. Otherwise they will make quite a racket due to excess valve clearance. It takes about twenty minutes of driving at mid rpm for the oil pressure to fill them and quiet down the valve train.

 

[SoNic67]

^ That's valid for the V8 too...

 

[pbnj22]

That's valid for the V8 too...

not for his formentioned "timing chain rattle"

 

[elrynon]

Damn 2000StreetRod I know you said it didn't sound like valve train issues to you but after watching multiple videos with valve train issues that's EXACTLY what it sounds like to me. The most common response I've seen to THOSE videos were lifter problems. Hell, who knows. Maybe I'm just being a hypochondriac? lol

If it WERE valve train issues would that coincide with my power problems? Driving/idling she runs great. Only problem is though when I pull into/out of a parking space or backing out then turning the wheel to pull forward from my driveway (basically engaging the power steering pump) without pressing the gas (I hope this makes sense) she bogs down. Basically when I'm "coasting" and I turn the wheel to engage the power steering pump without pressing on the gas is when this happens. Or am I probably looking at a different problem entirely?

I appreciate the help from you guys. Hopefully I'm not being TOO annoying with all this. I was just hoping to drop her off and pick up a "brand new" explorer. lol That's what I get for wishful thinking.

Wanted to add what I've done with driving. I picked up the explorer from the shop yesterday and then drove the 50-60 miles home ranging from 60 mph-70 mph at around 3000 rpm for about half of that (the interstate) and the rest of it was stop and go traffic up to 45 mph kept around 2000 rpm. Later on took a quick trip to the store (where I noticed the lugging from pulling into/backing out of parking space and driveway). Today drove it to work keeping it around 2000 rpm with stop and go traffic and then 55-60 on the highway, again noticing the lugging from pulling into/back out of parking space.

 

[2000StreetRod]

plenty of driving for the cam followers

The amount of driving that you describe is more than enough for the oil pressure to fill the cam followers. If you have valve train noise it shouldn't be due to dry cam followers.

Did you try using a hose to listen for exhaust leaks? Does one bank sound louder than the other if valve train noise?

The bogging down sounds like an engine speed at closed throttle problem. Perhaps the IAC valve is not functioning. The PCM controls the IAC valve. Does your idle speed increase when changing from Park to Drive at closed throttle. Does the engine bog down when the A/C compressor engages?

 

[SoNic67]

Your video it doesn't sound like lifters noise, it sounds like comes from 'deeper' inside. Sorry, hard to tell different from that audio quality.

PS: Maybe is not related but... My V8 has at least one weak lifter (I can hear it). It does loose the oil and takes a while to re-prime. Every time I start the truck from a longer period, if I start driving right away, at idle speed, at the first turn (3-point turn on my street) will try to bog down. After 1-2 minutes it doesn't do it.

 

[boominXplorer]

Sounds exactly like a bent oiler tube for the cam lobes. The cam lobes would tapping against it making the ticking noise every revolution. I have rebuilt a few 4.0 sohc enignes and had a noise just like that after one one time. The spring compressor tool will bend it slightly as you install the rockers in a few places. There shouldn't be any damage done unless the oiler tube cracked.

 

[jremington59]

Just out of curiosity what's the cost of a crate engine these days? That's a lot of cash.

 

[elrynon]

I just went out real quick and fired her up before work. Wanted to check the oil level again and check all the noises. I used the hose and poked around the headers. Honestly all I could hear was the tapping from the engine. So I decided to do the screwdriver/stethoscope thing and it definitely sounded louder from the front right of the engine (oil cap/tensioner area) I took the oil cap off and looked down inside as well as I could with a flashlight and I can see what seems to be the cassette? (white piece of plastic being pressed against by the front tensioner) just slapping against the chain. It LOOKED to be in rhythm with the noise. I honestly have no idea how much that piece of the cassette is suppose to move? I revved the engine by hand and sure enough that white piece stayed in sync with the sound. I might try switching out the front tensioner on monday (I told him to keep the tensioners because they're brand new, less than 6 months) Unless you guys don't think that's it then I won't bother.

As far as the IAC goes I guess it could have gone bad? A)It's only about 1-2 years old and B)It didn't do that before I had him rebuild the engine. Again, I'll have to test the drive/park thing monday because I don't have a lot of time before work. Can't test the a/c bogging down because it doesn't work (next on my to do list)


remington, it WAS a lot of cash BUT like I said in the first post most everyone around here was about the same for fixing the front/rear timing cassettes, about $2500 after tax. Found one guy that said he'd do it for $1500 BUT no warranty and he was going to use autozone/advance auto parts. I figured for an extra $1000 it was better to just have the ENTIRE engine rebuilt. It's been awhile since I did the research/comparison on new vs rebuilt engine and I don't remember why by my pros/cons list for rebuilt FAR outweighed the pros/cons list for new one.

 

[SoNic67]

Just out of curiosity what's the cost of a crate engine these days? That's a lot of cash.

I would definitely go that route. One example:
$1825 (add $475 core deposit) for OHV V6 (VIN 'X')
$2595 for SOHC V6
$1750 for V8 5.0L
https://www.barnettesengines.com/uploads/Copy_of_barnettes_Ford-Lincoln-Mercury_x_1.pdf

 

[pbnj22]

I would definitely go that route. One example:
$1825 (add $475 core deposit) for OHV V6 (VIN 'X')
$2595 for SOHC V6
$1750 for V8 5.0L
https://www.barnettesengines.com/uploads/Copy_of_barnettes_Ford-Lincoln-Mercury_x_1.pdf

why is the v8 cheaper?

 

[Cranmaro99]

why is the v8 cheaper?

For many reasons!