Recommendations for "True" fog lights.

[Dano!]

Some background first, out here in Lemoore CA, we get some real heavy fog. (Can't see the house across the street thick) the headlights on my 91 Navajo just doesnt cut through the dense fog.
Either way i have to go to work / drop my kid off at school / get groceries ect. And even though i drive to accommodate the weather i.e. slow down give extra room between me and other drivers, i feel like i am always moments away from an accident. I just can't see anything.

Every year people on base are killed because of the fog out here, the main road to town is the highway and people don't always see the red light. Hell i have had to smash brakes before to come to a stoplight.

I understand that fog lights are useless if you drive too fast or set them up wrong. I would like to be able to see the road NEXT to me (because i drive in the slow lane) when i am going down a residential road i would like to see the jogger who thinks its a good idea to run arroumd with 20ft visibility, see the kids who have to walk to the bus stop.

There are so many options and brands out there, but i feel like most of them are for looks and wont do me much good in actual fog. I was hoping there would be people here who understand where i am comming from and would have some informed suggestions.

Recap: i am looking for information and recommendations for wide/low fog lights that will keep me from causing an accident because my headlights pretty much blinds me in the fog.

Thank you.

 

[Anime]

The problem is that "true" fog lights only work as designed when they are the ONLY lights illuminating the road in front of the vehicle, and most vehicle lighting laws in the US require that the stock headlights be illuminated at all times from dusk until dawn, with "fog" lights only lit as auxillary lamps at the drivers option. This, of course, does little to help visibility in actual fog, since it just creates additional illumination, and additional glare.

There are very few popular brands that will give you a true "fog" pattern, you'd have to buy some mighty expensive European brands to get a really good pair of lamps that would both work as actual fog lamps, while also providing enough light to see with, without the headlights.

You can, however, get decent lighting for a decent price. Hella makes their 450 and 550 lamps in a fog pattern, both in clear and yellow lenses. It's debatable whether or not yellow lenses help much in fog or incluement weather, or how or why they do, but generally, the slightly yellow light will cause less glare because the beam is simply less intense than a similar white halogen beam. I suggest going with your personal preference, if you like the look of yellow fog lights, get yellow fog lights.

The first gen Explorer and Navajo has perfect mounting points for fog lamps under the stock bumper on either side. This is a bit low and is kind of a risky spot since they could be subject to impact damage if you hit something, but it gives the best fog performance and lets the lights "cut" under the fog and illuminate the road when the stock headlights are just glaring on top of the fog covering the road.

If you decide to get yellow fogs, something else you can do is to get slightly yellower headlight bulbs to reduce glare as well. Stock bulbs from Sylvania or Philips are generally a good bet, and will give the most light and the longest life, but Philips also makes a "yellow" headlight bulb called WeatherVision, that gives a slight yellow fog-light tint to the beam. It actually makes it look like the headlights are dim and the battery is low or something, but it can match well with yellow fogs and make for decent fog-driving visibility.
If nothing else, it sure makes your vehicle stand out, with yellow (but still legal) lights instead of just another pair of white-ish headlights on the road.

You might also want to check the clarity of the stock headlights, and if they are hazed or fogged up, purchase a headlamp restoration kit or use some plastic polish and lens protector and restore them back to stock-like clarity so the light from the headlights is getting on the road. You may find that the problem wasn't the fog, but the lack of output from the headlights. In either case though, fog lights mounted correctly should help you out, and offer both additional visibility to you, and make your vehicle more visible to others in low visibility situations.

 

[Dukes193]

I have to agree with Anime....But if it's an option for you you may want to look into HID bulbs for your fog lights (you can get a yellow color 3000K i think) if they are aimed properly you will not be blinding people and get the output that will give you better visibility.

 

[Anime]

HID bulbs are not good for real fog lights when the purpose is visibility in fog, there are no "3000K" HID bulbs, those would be fake wannabe HID junk bulbs.

Stick with tried-and-true halogen H3 55W bulbs, either from Hella, Sylvania, or Philips. The regular 55W version you can get just about anywhere is all you need, no gimmick bulb is going to be better, just more expensive to buy and quicker to burn out.

 

[FIND]

I agree with everything Anime said. I use 55w Hella Yellow Stars in my fogs and have nothing but good things to say about them.

If you are considering adding an aftermarket fog, I've also had good experience with PIAA 530 LED fogs but there are a ton of cheaper, incandescent solutions. Avoid HIDs like cable news avoids factual, unbiased reporting. The point of fog lights is putting out just a little light low down so you can see what is right in front of you without blinding yourself with reflected light. All HIDs will do is make a **** ton of light to blind you in weather where you already can't see.

 

[Dano!]

Thank you guys so much for your information. before posting this thread i sent out some e-mails to several "lighting Guru's" and local emergency services PR's inquiring about local laws and finding out what the local professionals use on their vehicles. these lights are generally 190.00 dollars each.

for some info and history of they type of fog i get here is a link.
Tule Fog (The kind of Fog i deal with and its tragic history)

So far only two have e-mailed me back, one informed me they use Cibie Tango units, which some information was attached and i have added below. Another informed me about some laws limiting the use and limit of forward lamps i could use. but they included information concerning rear facing fog lights which could be legally used during our heavy fog season. used to help other drivers see you.
Like my tag mentions "You may be the safest driver on the road, but then everyone else isn't."
Rear Fog Light Information

Anime, thank you for your great reply, you know i always knew that people swapped headlight bulbs this time of year but it never clicked that it may be to help with the fog. i will definitely invest in some alternate lamps to help with the glare.

A quick question concerning the Navajo headlight cover. there are 3 "nipples" protruding from the lens, which make it a little difficult to sand and re-finish the surface of the headlight lens. is it ok for me to cut those off? it would make it much easier to clean up and re-polish the lens equally.

Again thank you for your input. i will do some research into the Hella and PIAA lights today.

 

[FIND]

Those little nipples are for centering and mounting a tool that is used for aiming headlights. Dealers use an optical meter, so it isn't a problem for them, but some body guys still use the mechanical aimers.

If that is not a concern for you, you can sand them off. It won't effect the output or beam pattern as long as you don't take too much material off under or around them.

Those Cibie Tangos are a REALLY good fog, and the yellow filter on them makes a light that is right about where you would see classic selective yellow lights, maybe a little yellower, but not the ricer yellow that you get from a lot of those yellow gimmick bulbs, despite how yellow the lens looks.

By the way. That Tule Fog... Yeah, we've been getting some stuff just like that since yesterday out here. I can't see 500 ft away in it, and it has been lasting all through the day. It's a good thing we don't get it that bad very often. Good luck with it.

 

[Anime]

Cibie is one of those expensive european brands I was referring to. They make great lights, BUT they are expensive, they use hard-to-get H2 Halogen bulbs, and replacement parts are scarce and also expensive.

The reason I suggested the Hella 450/550 is because they are a quality lamp, you can buy a complete kit with TWO lamps, wiring harness, relay, covers, everything for less than one lamp from Cibie. Replacement parts are readlily available from Hella or online, and for not much money. They also use H3 Halogen bulbs, which are inexpensive and available at any auto parts store or department store, or even gas stations in the middle of nowhere. Another part of the reason is they are large, rectangular lamps, which will both fit better on the front of the Navajo, look better since they are rectangular like the stock headlights, and my personal experience is that wide, rectangular lamps do a really good job of putting out a wide, low fog beam. Round lamps do put out more light for something like off-road driving lights, but that's not what you want for fog. The rectangular fogs would also allow more clearance when mounted under the bumper, the round fogs would be only inches off the ground.

I do not like PIAA lamps for similar reasons, they are expensive, parts are expensive, and they don't make a lot of sense when compared to the Hella 450/550. The 530 LED lights aren't going to be much help for you in terms of visibility in fog, they are another lamp that is a "fog" lamp in name only, they are more like an auxillary lamp to be used with headlights. Another thing is PIAA lamps are still a target of theft, due to the name recognition. You can get around this by using different lamp covers that don't advertise they are PIAA lights. Actually, you may want to do this with the Hellas as well, getting some plastic spray paint and painting the covers black can make them seem pretty unappealing with the covers on. You can also get clear covers for the Hellas, that clip on over the lens so the lenses are protected from rocks and debris, but don't need to be removed so you can just flip the switch and they're on.

You don't have to go to the extreme of swapping in different headlight bulbs just to deal with times of the year when it's foggy, I was just suggesting you might try new bulbs since part of the problem might be the existing headlight bulbs are old or not a quality brand. The regular 9004 bulbs from Sylvania or Philips are perfect for all-around use and have a beam that is good in most weather conditions, just the slightly yellower WeatherVision bulb might be something you could try and see if you notice any improvement in visibility or just like them better. Mostly it was a suggestion for if you preferred yellow fog lights, I'd say stock "white" 9004 bulbs and "white" fog lights would go better if you wanted white fog lights, though you could of course just use regular 9004 bulbs and yellow fog lights.

The 3 "nipples" on the front of the headlight is what they used to use for aiming, same as the old sealed beam headlights. DOT beam headlights used to get put on a machine that tried to aim the headlights, but didn't do such a good job. I would not sand them off, since if you do it will probably compromise the lens, and it's possible they would start cracking. You are better off doing any sanding by hand, or just trying some polishing coupound by hand (Meguiar's Plast-X seems to work well, along with their protectant), or using a kit like one from Sylvania that you sand with by hand.

You could also convert the Navajo to an Explorer front end, swapping the stock Navajo headlamps for new, aftermarket Explorer headlamp assemblies, and putting on an Explorer grille, trim, and reflector/signal lamps. Since new headlamps don't seem to be available for the Navajo, this would be one of the only options for new headlamps.

 

[FIND]

The 530 LED lights aren't going to be much help for you in terms of visibility in fog, they are another lamp that is a "fog" lamp in name only, they are more like an auxillary lamp to be used with headlights.

Actually, I'm going to have to disagree with you here. They DO make a fog pattern on the 530 fogs. But yes, they are quite expensive for a pair. You can get really nice incandescent fogs for half the price or less than them.

 

[gmanpaint]

I run PIAA Fogs, and am absolutely amazed at how well they work in the fog. They got us thru the MTN passes with the main headlights off. 80 watt bulbs really do the trick for me at least.

I agree that the Hellas would work for getting you thru the crud, and for a cheaper price, availability, etc...

Personally, I am looking forward to getting a set of LED's front & back for fogs on the trail rig.

 

[Anime]

Okay, the PIAA 530's have a "fog" beam pattern, sure, but so does every other "fog" lamp that has at least decent optics, with the reflector, lens, and bulb shield all working together to produce a short throw, wide angle beam.

"Fog" lights have been so generalized, it's more like they are auxillary headlights or cornering lamps, and they are just on vehicles because "fog" lamps offer extra illumination, and don't blind oncoming traffic like driving lights would.

I would still say there is a difference between these type of "fog" lamps, and those that are actually really, really good for actual driving in fog. Maybe the halogen 530 is good. As far as I've seen, LED lights still aren't as good as halogen when it comes to inclement weather, similar to the issue with HID. Maybe an LED lamp with a yellow lens or yellow LEDs might be good.

 

[FIND]

IDK, the beam is so low and flat, I haven't had any trouble using them, despite their roughly 5000k color temp. Then again, I've only used them on trucks, so... it might be different when I am a couple feet closer to the ground. I would prefer a color closer to selective yellow, but, they aren't stupid bright either, so they aren't really all that bad. I can use white in inclement weather and they are quite similar to the Blazer fogs that were so popular in their functionality honestly. The beam is very precise and crisp though.

I guess a guy could always tint the lens with some metalcast yellow if the white was really a problem.

Once again though, you are right. There are plenty of options in incandescent lights that are half the price or less for very high quality lighting. The only reason to use them is if you really will be using them a lot, and can justify the power savings through fuel savings, hence why I haven't bought any for my Explorer, but they went on my friend's semi. Well, that and I would have to make brackets and other stuff I am too lazy to make to put them where the stock fogs go. Especially since the stock fogs on a late second gen make a halfway passable fog as it is.

 

[gmanpaint]

Just for grins..... Check these vids out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1UxACJNVt4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdl1HW0_vfU

If you decide on LED's,

These can be used for a nice fog light, and are versatile in their mounting. All you need is to add a switch of your choice.
http://www.technooutlet.com/prmtk11...r:adType=pla&gclid=CI7drP_7jbUCFbAWMgodG2gAoQ

Another decent slim LED version on the cheap

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-COLOR-WHI...HTS-BUMPER-FOG-LAMPS-/170950803540#vi-content

Another kit, doesn't say the wattage tho.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FREE-SHIP-5...pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr

A set I would use.
http://www.superbrightleds.com/search/led-products/led fog lights/

Cheap H3 replacement with LED bulb. 35-55w 3 colors to choose from.
http://www.superbrightleds.com/more.../h3-led-bulb-9-led-daytime-running-light/152/

 

[Anime]

Those slim LED strips are marketed as "Daytime Running Lights" because they don't seem to put out enough light to even rival a 35W halogen bulb in a cheap fog lamp.

I think we'll have some real fog and driving lamps like that eventually, though, but they might cost more, at least until they're all over the place, or the output of the cheapos isn't so much less than the quality brands.

 

[FIND]

Yeah.... those aren't going to amount to much more than marker lights

 

[gmanpaint]

(8) 1 watt led's in them strips. You would be surprised how bright they are. Although I would try to find some with stronger bulbs.
Example: 4 watt LED is almost as bright as 50 watt Halogen's.
15 watt would be nicer, as they would be 1/3 brighter then the headlights themselves.

If your wanting the fogs brighter then your headlights, then they make all kinds of LED lights that will accomplish just that, at a fraction of the power consumption of H3's.

 

[FIND]

If the first ones are drawing 8 watts, they aren't going to last very long, at least not without adding some kind of heat sink to them.

Also, a 50 watt halogen is usually around 1000 lumens of raw output. Most of the better LEDs on the market will only make at best 100 lumens per watt of raw output reliably. I can't think of any LEDs that can put out anything near 200 lumens per watt...

Those ones you posted from super bright LEDs claim 130 lumens, which is about as bright as a standard 15watt tungsten filament incandescent bulb... They wouldn't really be worth using, unless you just want something shiny.

I am always a fan of marker lights. I've been considering adding some top corner markers on the back of my truck, and some kind of cab markers for the front too... but I am not sure how I feel about standard cab markers for my truck... I'm actually more tempted to cut some small holes in my roof and make flush mounted markers. Though, I've been putting off that idea until I decide what I want to do about the offroad lights.

 

[MustangP51]

If you are looking for the best light you can get look for an HID fog light kit that has reflector housings designed specifically for HIDs. I had seen a few kits some time ago in the $300-$500 range. Only 4300k or 5000k HIDs will be worth getting, any bluer and the light is just useless.

If you are looking for something that wont be as devastating on your wallet just get a set of 55 watt halogens with a good wide horizontal beam.

I would not recommend getting yellow ones, there is no benefit from them, and light will blocked going through a yellow lens.

 

[Dano!]

I appreciate all of your suggestions, i am looking for a pair of the Hella 550 fog lights now. going to be looking around for the "best deal" as a pair runs for about 100 bucks.
This set will get me through the rest of this fog season, but also will give me time to save up for the expensive ones later this year. i will let you guys know what i find.

Here is one last question before i find and make this purchase.

What are the benefits between using round fog lights and square fog lights. would i be better off using one or the other?

My understanding is that round fog lights are better because more reflective area is reflecting light forward while a square fog lights corners tend to ricochet other than forward, but rectangle lights can have a wider beam. its late and the more research i do into beam angles between "Same brand different style" pairs of lights the more my head hurts. any insight would be appreciated.

-Dano

 

[MustangP51]

The round reflector is the best for sending light downrange in a beam. The 550s rectangular housing will fill up the foreground in front of the vehicle evenly but wont throw light as far. So for fog lights square works fine. I think you will be happy with those Hellas.