So Angry With Theodore Robins Ford Right Now!!

[Iamkarlocke]

So I bought my 2013 Explorer from Theodore Robins Ford in Costa Mesa, CA as a certified pre-owned vehicle about 16 months ago and have really enjoyed driving it ever since. Ford upped their game when they reinvented the Explorer. It has tracked straight as an arrow as long as I have owned it. Well that changed last Friday, June 19th.

I took it in for an oil change (normally I do my own but I had a coupon for a free one so why not?) and a couple of minor warranty issues (cheap plastic that came apart). I had JUST had the tires rotated and balanced elsewhere (where I bought them about 8 months ago) and they were absolutely perfect. Robin's Ford had my Explorer all day and were only able to manage the service as the parts required to complete the warranty issue were not in stock.

As soon as I drove it away it started to pull to the left. I drive it every day so I immediately knew this wasn't right, but I put it down to a slope in the road or maybe even my own imagination. It sat all weekend but when I drove it again on Monday it pulled again. I called to check on the status of my parts (having been told they would be in on Saturday, but now it's Monday) and the parts were not in. I called again on Tuesday, still no parts so I mentioned to the service adviser that the alignment was now off, having been perfect before they serviced it. He said to bring it back in for a check and I said I would do that when the parts came in, figuring that would be soon. Here we are a week later with NO parts and alignment still messed up.

I took it in yesterday, 6 days after they serviced it, only to be told it's "torque steer" as if I'm making it up and/or I'm just an accepting idiot who wouldn't know what "torque steer" is, but even the service adviser who took a ride with me AND on his own said he thought it was indeed pulling. He told me they would align it today (Friday) so I took it home and then went back in this morning. I sat for three hours while they aligned it, allegedly. I took it for a spin after and it still pulled/pulls to the left. I had the same service adviser drive it only to have him tell me there's nothing wrong with it, as if, once again, I'm making it up, and tried to charge me for an alignment. This is where my patience ended. For the sake of free oil change I have agonized over this for a week and they will not admit fault or are simply either not capable of correcting the problem they caused or just don't want to admit they caused it. I would not sign their exit paperwork and will be back on Monday to speak to the service manager who was not there today and will not be there tomorrow.

I did not have what I would call a stellar experience from Robin's Ford when I purchased the Explorer but I have had good experiences with service since then, up until today. Now I don't even want to drive my own SUV because I feel like my tires are getting messed up and they only have 5,000 miles on them.

Very, very frustrating. I love my Explorer but what I am now going through with Theodore Robins Ford is really putting a sour taste in my mouth.

Sorry for the long rant, just really pissed right now.

 

[peterk9]

Welcome to the Forum Iamkarlocke. :wavey:
Did the free oil change offer include an alignment as well? Did they list an alignment as being done on the invoice? Usually all work performed whether it is free or paid for is listed on the invoice.

Also, please add the model of your Explorer to your profile so it appears in the margin when you post. Year and model is requested when filling out the profile section. Thanks.

Peter

 

[Iamkarlocke]

Hey Peter,

This is kinda the best part: though the service adviser says the alignment issue was not caused by them, part of the service included what they call a "quick alignment check", (not to be confused with a proper alignment) and that was written on the documentation.

I specifically told him to write a note stating that the wheels were not to be touched and he did, and though I do believe that they did not rotate them, I also believe that their "quick alignment check" was the cause of the problem. While I was out on the drive with the service adviser to show him that it was pulling (he witnessed it first-hand) he even stated that he had little faith in the machine that they use for that check. I should have recorded our conversations because he quickly went from being on my side, to giving me the old "there's nothing more we can do here" attitude.

It's really poor customer service. I barely have 30k miles on it.

Karl

 

[peterk9]

Hey Peter,

This is kinda the best part: though the service adviser says the alignment issue was not caused by them, part of the service included what they call a "quick alignment check", (not to be confused with a proper alignment) and that was written on the documentation.

I specifically told him to write a note stating that the wheels were not to be touched and he did, and though I do believe that they did not rotate them, I also believe that their "quick alignment check" was the cause of the problem. While I was out on the drive with the service adviser to show him that it was pulling (he witnessed it first-hand) he even stated that he had little faith in the machine that they use for that check. I should have recorded our conversations because he quickly went from being on my side, to giving me the old "there's nothing more we can do here" attitude.

It's really poor customer service. I barely have 30k miles on it.

Karl

Hi Karl. They do an alignment check every time I take my vehicle in for oil changes but they don't do anything unless the alignment is off and then they seek authorization before doing any work. They always attached a printout of the specs for each wheel to the invoice.
It's a curious situation that you're in. Usually if they do an actual alignment it would be a line item on your invoice and they should provide you with a 'before' and 'after' printout of the specs.
I hope you get this resolved but it looks like an uphill battle. Good luck.

Peter

 

[dco43054]

So - is this a two wheel or all wheel drive Explorer? Is it drifting to the left when you are driving straight, or pulling when you rapidly accelerate?

If 2wd and drifting, and it wasn't before, I'd be suspicious. If 2wd and pulling under hard acceleration, I'd not be surprised at torque steer. Other threads in here you can read about that.

If it's awd, and drifting = problem. My awd has never exhibited significant torque steer.

 

[DeepBlueSC]

Christopher Robins Ford, Really! Eyore must be the technician and Tigger the service adviser. Here's a lesson going forward, don't do business with dealerships from the Whinny the Pooh line...

Sorry! It's not that I don't take your issue seriously, I just thought that dealership name was too good to pass up.

 

[sheltonfilms]

You maybe out 60-70 bucks but I would take it to another shop and see what readings they get and/or have them do an alignment.

I think Goodyear does free alignment checks.

Also, ask to see CR Ford machines calibration records. Should be every year and they should have sticker/metal plate indicating this on the machine.

 

[Iamkarlocke]

Thanks for the the replies, guys!

DCO - it's a 2wd. Pulls to the left when I accelerate and then pull to the right when I let off the gas. 100% suspicious!

DeepBlueSC - It's Theodore Robins Ford, not Christopher Robin but I have a couple of small kids so I can see the joke!

Sheltonfilms - If Ford don't step up on Monday and make this right, I'll kick it up to Ford corporate and then take it back to the shop that does my tires/balancing/alignments. You're right, I'm totally cool with spending the cash to make it right/safe but it should be Ford's $$$ and not mine.

 

[bigdude2468]

You answered your on question. When you have the pull on acceleration and it goes right when you let off the gas is torque steer. a misalignment it there all the time, pulls left or right, never stops. Have you tried driving on a flat road and letting go of the steering wheel to see if it pulls? Also, what about a bad tire that got moved to the front with the tire rotation? I have never heard of a dealer doing an alignment check for free, not saying it doesn't happen but never heard of it.

 

[dco43054]

There have been lots of posts about torque steer on 2wd under heavy acceleration. If under heavy acceleration it's pulling, and then the pulling ceases after lifting off the pedal, that would be consistent.

If you are gradually accelerating and it significantly pulls, seems like a problem.

If you are driving down the road at a steady speed and then lift off the pedal, and it then drifts, then I'd think you have an issue as well.

 

[Halwg]

I see this as the OP is angry over his parts not showing up in what he feels is a timely fashion, so he is ranting and blaming the dealership for things which have nothing to do with his oil change.

 

[Iamkarlocke]

bigdude - the problem here is that the pulling did NOT occur until the visit to the dealer. This is my daily driver and I used to remark about how it tracked straight as an arrow all the time. My last car (SAAB) used to suffer torque steer but I had modified it to push over 325 horses to those front wheels, so I expected torque steer and I got it. I have two kids in car seats so I'm not driving this thing like I'm being chased. The wheels are perfect and the tires only have 5,000 on them. Apparently when you get "The Works" service package from Ford they perform what they call a "quick alignment check" and they use a separate machine for it (the service adviser even said to me that he didn't have a whole lot of faith in that machine). It was also noted on my paperwork which is why I questioned it because I had specifically told them not to touch the wheels.

dco - It's fairly consistent pulling to the left whether accelerating or just rolling, even when the road slopes to the right.

Halwg - Your feedback is not constructive. The parts I'm waiting for are covered under warranty (plastic bits of interior trim that have zero to do with the safety/performance of the vehicle) which means they won't cost me a penny, but if my tracking is now messed up that will affect the tires and safety of the vehicle which WILL cost me money and peace of mind. Hopefully you can see the difference here.

 

[bigdude2468]

An alignment check would not produce your issue. A badly performed wheel alignment would but in as much as they did not do a wheel alignment that can't be the culprit.

 

[Iamkarlocke]

Yeah it doesn't make sense at all.

 

[LukerDooker]

Works pkg includes rotation, possibly they loosened lugs or began rotation before seeing note not to work on wheels?
Tire pressure alert wont come on until tires are approx 1/4 down, maybe check that also on the pull-to side?

 

[cwescapexlt4x4]

Just out of curiosity.... did you check to make sure they didn't hit something with that front wheel?

 

[wifes2011xlt]

FYI...Firestone does lifetime alignments for $190.

http://www.firestonecompleteautocar...del=Explorer&vehicle.submodel=Sport&zip=92626

It's money out of your pocket, but if you ever need more than one alignment while you own your car, you get your money's worth.

 

[FROADER]

I had a bit of a problem with Theodore Robbins with my driveshaft/rear end issue. They finally took care of it, but it was a hassle for sure. Good luck...

 

[Iamkarlocke]

Okay so nearly two months later the issue has finally been resolved. After having basically been told by the service reps at Theodore Robins Ford that I was crazy (they never came out and said it but it was inferred simply because they kept saying there was definitely nothing wrong with my car) I kicked the issue up to the director of operations at the dealer and he, himself took the Explorer out for a drive with me in the passenger seat. I said nothing, but within a minute he said it was definitely pulling and that it was unusual. We went back to the dealer and took a comparable used Ex off the lot for a drive - guess what - IT DIDN'T PULL. He took mine back in and said they would go through it to figure it out. Bottom line for me was that someone actually recognized there was a problem instead off putting me off and treating me like an idiot.

As it turned out the problem was with the tires, a phenomenon called "radial pull". An imperfection in the tire(s) that can cause the vehicle to mimic a poor alignment. The bad tires had been on the back wheels from new and when they were rotated to the front the issue occurred. This wasn't the dealer's fault and I admit that, but what made me mad was the fact that they kept telling me there was nothing wrong with the car and kept trying to get rid of me instead of helping me figure it out - I bought the car from them! The ONLY reason I got any satisfaction here was because I had to kick it upstairs before someone would finally help me figure out WTF was wrong with the car I put my kids in every day.

I went back to Just Tires (where I bought the tires 5000 miles ago) and had to have them replace the front tires TWICE because they same issue showed up AGAIN the first time they replaced them. Nearly two months later everything is back to normal because the front tires have been replaced (twice) and all is right with the world, and the Ex.

 

[dco43054]

Glad you got it figured out.

Maybe a better thread title would be "Bad tires cause problem that mimics torque steer?"