Starter Hell

[gt fast]

one thing to check is on the cables themselves, see how good the connection to the terminal is. i noticed the other day my ground terminal didnt have a good bite on the cable, in fact i actually barly tugged on it and pulled it out. all my click clicks are gone and its worked great after i replaced the terminal. just a thought to look at.

 

[gmanpaint]

Glad the OP got it working. Unfortunately, I am still stuck in starter hell. I replaced the positive cable with the $67 Motorcraft, and nothing, same deal, same crap, different day.

I have one more spare starter I was saving to install after the new cable was installed. I will throw that in tomorrow and if it don't work, I might make a youtube video on the exploder, exploding!

 

[Tbars4]

...What was your voltage readings from the above post and have you checked your negative cable connections even at the frame and motor?

 

[gmanpaint]

13.8 v, & new ground cable was just installed as well. The starter has to be toast.

 

[Tbars4]

...13.8v is a high reading if the truck has set for an hour or more (unless it's a yellow top).

...If it has not sat for an hour, let it sit and see what the voltage is before trying to start...Then put your meter on the battery (both post) and see what it drops down to while trying to crank.

...Next, get a reading from the battery at the fender relay (should read same as battery...Then get a reading from the fender relay, (wire to the starter only)..It should read zero then 12.1 plus when someone turns the key to crank.

...Next,get someone to turn the key to crank and see what the voltage is at the starter..

 

[gmanpaint]

I replaced the cable as soon as I got it home today. The rig sat for maybe 30 mins while swapping it out. I had my neighbor turn the key as I checked the volts at the starter. Its a brand new 1000Ca battery in it, so I just thought it was normal to have a higher reading than 12 v. I didn't check the volts at the battery, as I knew it was good. The solenoid is new also, and there is strong power to everything.

I just think the bad positive cable (which was terrible) ruined the starter's. I still have one to install, so I am not out of pocket just yet.

 

[Jabberwocky]

A new starter is expensive, so I have been reluctant to purchase one if this is not the problem. Something is bad here, burning up the starters. 2 in one month, is enough to make me Leary of buying a 3rd.

There has to be something in the system that is causing this starter failure.

Absolutely make sure your voltages are good.
Give special attention to your grounds. Primary cause for failure on DC circuitry is poor grounds, Bad ground you'll chew up your electronics.

Also something to look into is starter motor alignment/spacing. I'm new to this specific set of vehicles but with about a dozen starter jobs on as many different models and makes I'd feel comfortable saying that you should look into that. Often you can find a tutorial on how to check this with little effort.
Essentially what your looking for is proper spacing for the gears to mesh up, too much gap you will wear prematurely and risk tearing up the teeth on your flywheel (much bigger job than simply aligning the motor properly to start with), too little and you'll bind up and burn the motor out.
Someone on the forum probably has more info on your specific vehicle but as I said, I've done fords, dodges, chevs, hondas and even two caterpillars and they all need to be aligned properly.

 

[gmanpaint]

Starters where installed alike.

I just pulled the starter again, bench tested it and it works just fine. Now what? Torch the rig to the ground? I'm at wits end here with this thing. More mad that I can't seem to fix this issue than anything else.

 

[Tbars4]

....Waiting for your feedback of test from post #25...

...But I'm still not saying it could be a cable problem even thought they are new cables...
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2549392&postcount=276

 

[gmanpaint]

Sorry Tbars, I have nobody available to do that volt test today.

It was suggested to me to switch out the ignition switch, but I'm not sure about that?

edit: I read that link. I cant imagine a new Motorcraft cable being messed up out of the box, but I will have a look anyways.

 

[Tbars4]

...Come on over and I'll give you a hand...:biggthump

 

[gmanpaint]

Ok, new question, new line of thinking.

What about a cam position sensor on the 94? Will it give intermittent start conditions?

I have been hearing what sounded like a bearing going bad deep in the engine as of late. I was under the presumption that if a cps goes bad, the engine dies and that's that.

 

[Tbars4]

...If I understand you correctly, you still have a "click,click,click" of a "No Start" situation, meaning for some reason your starter will not turn over...This is a basic electrical or common part failure...

...If it was your CPS or anything else, your starter would still turn over the motor...

 

[gmanpaint]

Bear with me please

When this all began...........The starter just didn't do a thing.

Turn the key to start........ heard the relay click once, nothing whatsoever from the starter. Quiet.

Thought the battery was dead, I was in a Wal-mart parking lot with a cart full of food.
I went back in the store and purchased a 1000 CA battery, and installed it. No change when turning the key.

I crawled under and tapped the starter and it fired right up. This engine starts easy with just a bump of the key normally.


Got it home, and replaced the corroded ground cable. Nothing changed, wouldn't start.

Swapped out the starter with my used good spare. Nothing, wouldn't start.

Replaced the fender solenoid for a new one, it fired right up. It worked great, and better than it ever had before. This lasted a month.

Was at work, and done for the day, same thing happened all over again. Tapped the starter and it cranked and fired. Got it back home.

Inspecting the positive cable after this thread started, and found it to be corroded completely, replaced with a new Motorcraft high dollar nice cable. No crank. Can hear the fender solenoid click once, but its as if the pos cable was off the starter.

I just yanked the starter out, bench tested both starters and they both work flawlessly.

Re-installed the original starter, cranked and fired. Weak crank though. It still has a problem getting power to the starter somehow, somewhere, there is a drain of power.

This is where it stands of now.

 

[Tbars4]

...Sounds just like the what happened to me in the previous link I just posted...

...I first checked 12v plus on the battery to solenoid wire...Then I took a pair of insulated pliers with the key on and jumpered over the solenoid to the wire which leads to the battery to try and start it...

...That small wire leading from the fender relay to the starter was the problem on the new wire...Testing for 12v plus on both sides of the fender relay and at the starter (per earlier said test) would rule that out...

...Another thing that comes to mind is your bench testing..If you yourself are just pulling them out, running 12v to them and getting them to run, well, it's not as good of a test as whats done on a machine which could actually load test them...

 

[gmanpaint]

...I first checked 12v plus on the battery to solenoid wire...Then I took a pair of insulated pliers with the key on and jumpered over the solenoid to the wire which leads to the battery...

I'm not following here.

There are 2 wires from the battery to the solenoid. Both bolted to different posts on the solenoid.

Please explain again what you actually jumped. "Over"? Sorry, I'm so frustrated and angry right now, I'm red in the face from high blood pressure. Do you mean you bypassed the solenoid completely? Straight from the battery to the starter coil wire?

Edit: the bench testing was by me and not a load test. Once I seen they both still work, I felt as if it might be a diff problem beside the starter. Oh, & thanks for all the help. Being stuck at home and not at work because of this has just got me stressed bad.

 

[Tbars4]

...Take them both to a shop and have them bench tested...This may be your whole problem and unless you know they are good, or until you test for 12v plus at starter when cranked...

...The left wire should be coming from the battery...The right wire goes to the starter...Center top wire is from the ignition and fires the power with the key in the crank position...The pliers test with the key on is from the left side (always hot) jumpered to the right side...If you jumper over this with key in the on position, you can literally start your vehicle...This is a basic test for the fender relay...

...From there you would need help doing the other previous mentioned test...

 

[gmanpaint]

Ok, I understand what your saying now.

I tried to do that test a few weeks ago, with no result to the starter. I was told that if it didnt work, the solenoid is good, if it did work, it's bad. Maybe I misunderstood.

I just tried the jumper with the pliers and it started.

 

[Tbars4]

..DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING!!!!!

...You are good to go now...

...I've seen new fender relays fail from AZ just like this...In fact, I threw my week old unit on their counter and told them to remember me as I will never buy Duralast or Valuecrop products again...

 

[Tbars4]

...Gman, any updates? Did it start up today? Inquiring minds want to know...