T3 T4 Hybrid Turbo OHV

[Dono]

I think once you purchase the pro racer package, the tweaking never stops. Its rewarding to get great results.

 

[Caejxr]

I think once you purchase the pro racer package, the tweaking never stops. Its rewarding to get great results.

I'd say you're right, I'll probably get this one as close to perfect as possible and start building tunes for lesser quality gasoline. Or pull the engine, build it and tweak it for higher boost. Who knows.

I think I've become power hungry. I started researching the cost to do a full build on the internals today to turn the power up. And I mean all the internals. But it would be expensive and likely result in the need for a new drive line...Id probably be better off saving my money for the 69 cutlass I want to find and build one day

 

[Caejxr]

Call me crazy but I think I'm going to start collecting parts to do a full build. I've priced everything out and know what direction I want to move in except on the pistons. Does anyone know if Morana's forged pistons are better than super 6's factually? It's about a 130$ price difference, super 6 being cheaper at $875 for the set.

 

[Dono]

[MENTION=91966]jd4242[/MENTION] is the 4.0ohv king.
He's the guy to ask.
Careful though, it could cost you thousands more than you planned on. Lol

 

[Caejxr]

I hear ya, this is going to go much longer than the turbo build.
I'll collect all the parts up over the next year or more and won't start until I have everything. The goal will be to have a 100% completed project on finish. To include that intake ducting I still haven't replaced with nice aluminum pipe yet. And I'll probably research what to mate behind the engine after that since it will probably shred the m50d and 1354

 

[Dono]

My 4.0 ohv build was a above average rebuild, but not what id call crazy. I self ported the heads and lower intake. Used the larger 422 cam and higher rated springs to match. Machine shop installed my RockAuto crank and .03 over pistons. Then a m90 sat on top of the lower intake.

I balanced the pistons (picked the lightest one and made the others match). Also, arp head studs.

Motor has been great. Zero issues. I figured id have no issues with my 5.0 ohv after the experience, but it hasn't worked out that way.

Jd4242 will help you end up with a killer motor. You better start deciding on budget quick.

 

[Caejxr]

Well, here's what I'm looking at aquiring for the build and current pricing for most of it:

Timing Chain kit. $60 Parts store
Custom SCE Copper Head Gaskets. ~$200
Intake Gaskets. $50
Melling M328 oil pump. $139.99 Amazon.
Smith Bros Rods. ~$200.
Sealed Power Valve Rockers. $137.88. Amazon. R-1092
ARP Rod Bolts. $120. Morana
ARP Head Studs. $360. Morana
Pistons Forged Aluminum. $875. Super6
Clevite Rod Bearings. $36.99 Summit. 6-3055cp
Clevite Main Bearings. $69.97 Summit. Ms2006p
SI valves SEV2027 and 2028. ~$130
Aluminum 3 core radiator. ~$300. Summit
Oil and Coolant. ~$60.
Comp Cam 49-410-8. $268 Amazon
Sealed Power 170lb valve Springs. $40.08 Rock Auto

Water pump and heads are only 3yrs old so their probably OK thus bringing the engine build cost to about ~$3050.00. Of course this is not factoring potential trans/t-case replacement or the engine hoist/rotating rack I will be buying to do the entire project. Spread out over a year or more and accepting that prices will fluctuate and there's things not listed which I will buy...it won't be so bad. IF I were to do the bottom end at a later time it would bring the top end build alone to ~$1800.00

 

[jd4242]

Well, here's what I'm looking at aquiring for the build and current pricing for most of it:

Timing Chain kit. $60 Parts store
Custom SCE Copper Head Gaskets. ~$200
Intake Gaskets. $50
Melling M328 oil pump. $139.99 Amazon.
Smith Bros Rods. ~$200.
Sealed Power Valve Rockers. $137.88. Amazon. R-1092
ARP Rod Bolts. $120. Morana
ARP Head Studs. $360. Morana
Pistons Forged Aluminum. $875. Super6
Clevite Rod Bearings. $36.99 Summit. 6-3055cp
Clevite Main Bearings. $69.97 Summit. Ms2006p
SI valves SEV2027 and 2028. ~$130
Aluminum 3 core radiator. ~$300. Summit
Oil and Coolant. ~$60.
Comp Cam 49-410-8. $268 Amazon
Sealed Power 170lb valve Springs. $40.08 Rock Auto

Water pump and heads are only 3yrs old so their probably OK thus bringing the engine build cost to about ~$3050.00. Of course this is not factoring potential trans/t-case replacement or the engine hoist/rotating rack I will be buying to do the entire project. Spread out over a year or more and accepting that prices will fluctuate and there's things not listed which I will buy...it won't be so bad. IF I were to do the bottom end at a later time it would bring the top end build alone to ~$1800.00

You have a link to the copper gaskets? ?

Your need forged rods also,which come with new bolts so you can remove them off you list.also fyi arp 302 rod bolts work for stock rods..

If you run SI or any stainless valves you will need bronze guides. .personally id order a set from manley,you can go up to .100 over stock size.this will probably be your biggest gains,the valves are tiny..

Dont even bother with the 410 cam,get the 422..also both those cams call for comp cams 988 dual valve springs..the heads will have to be milled to install them at a height of 1.6...your list has some other springs listed

O and the arp pinto head stud kit works for our motors..has same stud,washer and nut..your need 2 kits and will have extras..its cheaper.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ARP-Ford-Pi...nt-151-4201-/371230602019?hash=item566f117323

Also id find a sohc oil pan and related hardware to add to you motor..

 

[Caejxr]

[MENTION=91966]jd4242[/MENTION], Thanks for the input there. That's some good stuff I overlooked off the bat. Why do you recommend the 422 over the 410 in my case? The 410 is supposed to be better for low and mid, 422 mid and high I thought... My focus is low and mid for my usual purposes and my impeller goes out of the ideal efficiency above 4500 unless I raise the boost level. The copper gaskets would be a special order thing. I'd probably have to send them a gasket set to use as a template.

 

[jd4242]

[MENTION=91966]jd4242[/MENTION], Thanks for the input there. That's some good stuff I overlooked off the bat. Why do you recommend the 422 over the 410 in my case? The 410 is supposed to be better for low and mid, 422 mid and high I thought... My focus is low and mid for my usual purposes and my impeller goes out of the ideal efficiency above 4500 unless I raise the boost level. The copper gaskets would be a special order thing. I'd probably have to send them a gasket set to use as a template.

The 422 makes much more power and the power band difference is like 100 rpms difference. .ive had both and trust me you dont notice any difference in when the power comes in but your notice much more with the 422.they are pretty much the same cam but the 422 is 500/500.its also the same price.

Gotcha on the gaskets. Im having a set made right now so if you do ever get to that point let me know and i can probably have a set made quickly for you,they will have mine on file..remember the block with need a grove and oring

 

[Caejxr]

The 422 makes much more power and the power band difference is like 100 rpms difference. .ive had both and trust me you dont notice any difference in when the power comes in but your notice much more with the 422.they are pretty much the same cam but the 422 is 500/500.its also the same price.

Gotcha on the gaskets. Im having a set made right now so if you do ever get to that point let me know and i can probably have a set made quickly for you,they will have mine on file..remember the block with need a grove and oring

Makes sense then if the rpm range is that minimal of a difference. I may take you up on the gasket offer if I can't get the place I'm looking into to do it. If I have to get the spring cups machined than It doesn't hurt to get the ring grooves done too.


The place I'm looking into offers a version that, like you say would require an o-ring, another that uses a built in seal kind of like the OEM and then a third that requires using a head specific sealant.

What bronze guides, brand/measurements are people using?

I'm also thinking it will be easier to spend the extra up front to get bare head castings and build them as I go, off the truck so I dont have the motor fully dis-assembled and have to build the heads, I can just swap them out. Then I can either, build the currents as spares, sell them as low mile stockers, build and sell them or just keep them to swap out all the goodies if I crack one.

 

[jd4242]

Makes sense then if the rpm range is that minimal of a difference. I may take you up on the gasket offer if I can't get the place I'm looking into to do it. If I have to get the spring cups machined than It doesn't hurt to get the ring grooves done too.


The place I'm looking into offers a version that, like you say would require an o-ring, another that uses a built in seal kind of like the OEM and then a third that requires using a head specific sealant.

What bronze guides, brand/measurements are people using?

I'm also thinking it will be easier to spend the extra up front to get bare head castings and build them as I go, off the truck so I dont have the motor fully dis-assembled and have to build the heads, I can just swap them out. Then I can either, build the currents as spares, sell them as low mile stockers, build and sell them or just keep them to swap out all the goodies if I crack one.

It is very minimal and where the difference is,is so low in rpms that it really doesnt make a difference. You dont spend but a millasec there.plus i have a feeling once you get the rebuilt motor in your wanna turn up boost or atleast have the capability to turn it up and gain ALOT mid to top rpms..you dont really want to turn that motor past 6k anyways unless you go roller rocker and lightweight pistons..

Also if you dont plan to run a butt load of boost you honestly dont need forged bottom end or copper gaskets. .if you use arp head studs and a felpro blue superduty head gasket it should hold 14ish pounds..stock will hold up to about 12Lbs at stock compression. .ask me how i know..lol

Im running 10 lbs,a 35 shot of nitrous and compression of 11:1 on blue SD gaskets, TTY head bolts,stock rods and speed pro pistons.. ...if you do the math thats like 18 lbs at regular compression motor

The guides need to be 8mm but if i recall they dont make them so you need to use i believe 7mm and mill them out..**this has to be done when using stainless valves,the stock cast guides will stick to the SS**..also valve size max is IN 1.8 and EX 1.5 but if you go that big you will need new hardened seats.the valves ran me i think around $500

 

[Dono]

Quick question....
Summit 3 core radiator. Which one? I'm not sure that I'd have room up front anyway, but am curious as I don't see one available. I'm sure one can be modified, but which one is the easiest to make work on the existing mounts.

 

[Caejxr]

[MENTION=91966]jd4242[/MENTION] http://www.jegs.com/i/Dart/301/6312...9&cadevice=m&gclid=CICm3tvR-ssCFU6SfgodB5EKXg think those may work? You're right about the boost I will try to bump it up over 10. I want to build the heck out of it so I have the ability to. Thank you for the info on the valves. I'm taking notes as this area I think I'm lacking the most knowledge in.
[MENTION=102869]Dono[/MENTION] The radiator is made by frost bite there's a few versions and one has the right plumbing.

 

[jd4242]

[MENTION=91966]jd4242[/MENTION] http://www.jegs.com/i/Dart/301/6312...9&cadevice=m&gclid=CICm3tvR-ssCFU6SfgodB5EKXg think those may work? You're right about the boost I will try to bump it up over 10. I want to build the heck out of it so I have the ability to. Thank you for the info on the valves. I'm taking notes as this area I think I'm lacking the most knowledge in.
[MENTION=102869]Dono[/MENTION] The radiator is made by frost bite there's a few versions and one has the right plumbing.

I honestly dont know..my machinist takes care of that always and yours may want to do it differently. .two of my first motors i built went bad because we didnt catch that or think about it

 

[Caejxr]

Ok, makes sense. I'll see if I can dig up one in the exact specs. But that one is really close.

 

[Caejxr]

So I will be doing the 422 cam. I've got an RFI in to promaxx performance which was previously Alabama cylinder heads. I'm probably going to get a set of their bare, thicker cast heads to build. I also looked at the sets of stage 3 heads that would run me close to the same as my build without a lot of the parts....they have larger stainless valves with stock guides. Even on the stage 3 heads.. good thing to note since experienced members on this board have had multiple engines fail. Contributing factor being ss valves w/o bronze guides. Point is why spend big money on something incomplete that will fail...the build moves on. I'll probably buy the heads or the cam/springs next month depending things shake out the next few weeks.

 

[jd4242]

So I will be doing the 422 cam. I've got an RFI in to promaxx performance which was previously Alabama cylinder heads. I'm probably going to get a set of their bare, thicker cast heads to build. I also looked at the sets of stage 3 heads that would run me close to the same as my build without a lot of the parts....they have larger stainless valves with stock guides. Even on the stage 3 heads.. good thing to note since experienced members on this board have had multiple engines fail. Contributing factor being ss valves w/o bronze guides. Point is why spend big money on something incomplete that will fail...the build moves on. I'll probably buy the heads or the cam/springs next month depending things shake out the next few weeks.

Ive talked to Tom about that,he said "it will be fine guy,if they need it we will put them in"" i dont know what that exactly means..he also wont tell me what size the valves are,just oversized

 

[Caejxr]

Ive talked to Tom about that,he said "it will be fine guy,if they need it we will put them in"" i dont know what that exactly means..he also wont tell me what size the valves are,just oversized

Yeah that's kinda vague. May explain why the 5 or 6 questions I asked went unanswered. For the price of them from him, super 6 or anywhere else I'd expect more. But its fine building them will get better results for less.

 

[jd4242]

Yeah that's kinda vague. May explain why the 5 or 6 questions I asked went unanswered. For the price of them from him, super 6 or anywhere else I'd expect more. But its fine building them will get better results for less.

Yea why i built mine..Tom is a great guy though, we talk alot..here is some pictures of the port work and stuff id suggest
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3524050#post3524050