The HID Headlamp Dilemma

[Black Magic]

There we go that is better, Sorry about those image size's. Fixed now

 

[mweiss]

Originally posted by DarkFox1
by the way, about your concerns of the fog lights turning off when you turn the brights on.. thats something that annoys me as well..

Deer are a drivers worst nightmare here..

alternative lights is also a plan.. but I personally am not a huge fan of having like 4 or 5 external lights on the ....

oh and btw last I heard this board has about 12k members.. heh, sometimes posts will go mad with

Given my socket meltdown experience with this truck, I don't think I'd want both filaments to stay on at once, but if separate lighting units, then yes, I'd modify the wiring or add a diode to the relay field coil.

Deer are the only thing keeping me from going over 50MPH on NY state back roads. It's just farms and wilderness.

I wouldn't mind aux lighting so much if it was robust and installed properly. So much of what I see on the road is rusty and supported by weak brackets that cause the lamps to aim wrong soon after they're installed.

12000 members? Holy cow! Well, some of us tend to keep an eye on a busy topic. Due to the season, this one's really bugging me. It's raining here right now, which is why I'm not on the road right now. I'm sitting in my kitchen, using the wireless laptop computer to keep on top of the thread while I snack...

 

[DocVijay]

I think one problem with the dual HID bulb lamps would be cost. You pretty much ahve to factor in the new housings, and four bulbs. That would probably end up being over $1000.

As for your statement about bulbs getting the full voltage. Yes, that is correct, the bulbs will not get full voltage, but any bulb you install will theoretically get the same voltage. It's how the bulb uses that voltage. Everything electrical is about efficiency. How much of the power is used to create light, and how much for heat.

AS for my truck, I have the Silverstars right now. Best bulbs so far, in my opinion. I also have a set of PIA 1100X driving lights that I can turn on ondependent of headlights. I also have a set of PIAA 510 driving lights that are wired to come on with my high beams. WIth all three on, I can see a very long distance. I've had my PIAAs mounted for three and two years respectively and never have had a problem witht hem coming loose or shifting. If a good job is done installing them they should be fine for a long time.

 

[mweiss]

Originally posted by Black Magic

mweiss Sorry I have no clue what you are taking about. I was just using a Sony 3 mega pixel digital camera. I do have a UV filter but that is it. Thanks for the complement though!

I was referring to a Neutral Density Filter, sort of like sunglasses for a camera -- to cut down the amount of light into the lens.

Those last mounting photos were too close for me to recognize just what I was looking at and what part of the vehicle front.

On the topic of installation, I was considering mounting to the fiberglass grill, but that would not be all that rigid. Reinforcements perhaps?

Looks like you mounted behind your grill, not in it, right?

 

[DocVijay]

Here'w where I mounted mine.

PIAA 1100X in the middle. PIAA 510 outer lights.

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[mweiss]

Originally posted by DocVijay
I think one problem with the dual HID bulb lamps would be cost. You pretty much ahve to factor in the new housings, and four bulbs. That would probably end up being over $1000.

As for your statement about bulbs getting the full voltage. Yes, that is correct, the bulbs will not get full voltage, but any bulb you install will theoretically get the same voltage. It's how the bulb uses that voltage. Everything electrical is about efficiency. How much of the power is used to create light, and how much for heat.

AS for my truck, I have the Silverstars right now. Best bulbs so far, in my opinion. I also have a set of PIA 1100X driving lights that I can turn on ondependent of headlights. I also have a set of PIAA 510 driving lights that are wired to come on with my high beams. WIth all three on, I can see a very long distance. I've had my PIAAs mounted for three and two years respectively and never have had a problem witht hem coming loose or shifting. If a good job is done installing them they should be fine for a long time.

Cost doesn't bother me when it comes to safety. Even the $1500 I was expecting to pay 8 months ago when I first looked into HID, is small compared to the cost of a crash or hitting a kid on a bike while blinded by oncoming traffic. I'll gladly shell out 2 grand for the lighting system I described above, if it will give me comfort and safe driving.

The voltage at the lamps WILL vary with lamp wattage. THis is a fact of Ohm's Law, where the wire feeding the lamp is also a resistor and the lamp filament is a resistor. Both are in series across the voltage source. THe lower the R of the filament, the greater the voltage potential across the wire, and the voltage across the wire is subtracted from the total voltage in the system, leaving less across the load (filament). That's one reason why my 80/100W bulbs were barely brighter than the 55/60W standard 9007s. I ended up with only 10.1 V at the sockets while I had 13.8 V at the battery!
The standard factory bulbs actually burn whiter, because they don't pull down the voltage at the socket as much.

I suppose the PIAA housings are built better and resist rust better than a lot of the cheap after market auto parts store specials that I see one a lot of Explorers around here. If I could mount them discreetly and neatly so they don't spoil the appeal of the vehicle, that'd be an option. But it also adds work, drilling, cutting and making irreparable changes to the truck.

 

[mweiss]

Originally posted by DocVijay
Here'w where I mounted mine.

PIAA 1100X in the middle. PIAA 510 outer lights.

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INside the bumper! I hadn't thought of that! I forgot that that slot was there. A small projector lamp does fit nicely there. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. as I was focused on the grill so much I forgot that the bumper has a space near the license plate bracket. Hmmm, this changes things a bit. HOw are those lights? Not familiar with the model numbers, but for that small size, do they individually put out a lot of light?

 

[DocVijay]

Originally posted by mweiss
Cost doesn't bother me when it comes to safety. Even the $1500 I was expecting to pay 8 months ago when I first looked into HID, is small compared to the cost of a crash or hitting a kid on a bike while blinded by oncoming traffic. I'll gladly shell out 2 grand for the lighting system I described above, if it will give me comfort and safe driving.

Yes you may be willing to pay $2000 for headlights, but how many more. If they can't sell enough to make a profit on them, they won't make them. I've never been one to hold back on spending money (just ask my wife), but $2000 is a bit steep for headlights. Not many people would gladly spen that kind of cash on lights for their Explorer. Even when I spun my Mercedes a while ago, the headlamps weren't that much, and they really over price things.

Yes, there will be a voltage difference at the bulbs, but releastically ther won't be enough of a voltage difference to matter. Unless you have many accessories with high energy demands, the charging system is more than sufficient to supply the voltage needed. Look at your average car with a high power stereo. Only after really loading up on amplifiers do the lights start to dim when the music hits hard. If you don't have a powerful aftermarket stereo or other goodies, you should not have a problem with the lights.

As for the PIAA lights, the 1100X are much brighter than you would think. The lenses really do a great job of focusing the light. The 510s are exceptionally bright, and that's why I use them only with my high beams.

Check www.piaa.com for all the info on their lights. They actuall have two HID accessory lights available. AS cost i snot an issue, you may want ot consider these. I believe both would fit in the bumper slot.

 

[DocVijay]

PIAA lights.

HID model numbers are:

930 HID

and

999 (projector)

 

[mweiss]

Thanks for the model numbers on the PIAA lamps. I believe I found that HID model earlier during my Google searching last night.

I realize that not everyone is willing to spend 2 grand on a pair of lights, but then most drivers don't give a second thought to lighting and aren't even aware that their lights may be dangerous. Automotive lighting seems to be one of the industry's 'blind spots' in that little is done to make lighting safe and optimal, rather than stylish and cheap to make. 2 grand is 6 months' auto insurance premiums (NJ rates), or about 2/3 the cost of repair after hitting a deer, so I think it's worth it. Gosh, with the headaches and eyestrain these lights cause me, I can tend to wonder what medical problems can arise from extended driving over several years with such poor lighting.

The industry is moved by market demands, which are not always in the best interest of technology. Oh well....

 

[DocVijay]

Eye strain would be similar to that of any other situation which involves low light, low contrast, etc.

Yes, the problem is the consumer. The averag consumer would scream bloody murder if the average price of a car went up $1000, even if it was twice as safe. That has been shown in the past, and will not change. Initial legislation on mandating airbags was almost shot down because it would raise car prices.

Problem is America is cheap. Or at least cheap at the wrong times. They will spend extravegantly on useless decorative items, but then go and get the 4 tires for $100 Pep Boy special. My tires cost $180 a piece, and I don't ever worry baout them failng and killing me or my family.

Safety should not be a price issue. If every car cost a bit more but was safer, the US would save BILLIONS in health care costs alone each year. But oh well...

A comedian once said that to make the US accident free, take out the airbags and put a big sharp spike on the steering wheel. That way, everyone would drive around really slow and carful. Almost makes too much sense.

 

[DarkFox1]

well, they have definatley made steps to make new car lighting better.. look at the new Xs and the sports.. I mean I haven't sat behind the wheel of these, but I'm confident their lighting is superior to the old foggy lenses we have.

the guy in the corner can't figure out you CLICK the mouse.. not SLAM IT.. HES DRIVING ME CRAZY

oh well.. thats how campus computer labs are.

lol, anyway.. you know there is also a limit in some states as to the number of aftermarket lights you can have. or total lamps. I think here in GA its a total of 3 sets of lights on the vehicle.. I personally dont think this law is very fair considering I've been blinded like mad by BMW headlights, yet its illegal for me to do the same because of a lack of better lenses to accompany superior technology.

I have to agree about the price thing.. $1k is a lot of money to me.. as a college student.. $100 i s a lotof money to me heh most people want the best product for the cheapest price, and put things in the $1k range just out of consideration.

yea, the 98+ X I beleive has a small round hole on the outsides of the bumper, on some models there is actually a fog light there, xlt? I think? I dont keep up with post '97s heh at any rate, this would be a great place to put a nice width spanning low beam driving light that could stay on during the highs.

I wish some company would make some stuff for our trucks heh, like the crystal eyes they make for pretty much every suv EXCEPT the explorer.

 

[Black Magic]

Do you guys think that After market companies all have the "Tire Rack" syndrome? Meaning that they do not even want to mess with the Roll-Over-Explorer. Even if it cost them customers. I could see someone blaming their wreck on their APC Projo's lack of light and suing them. It is sad but I think there is some truth there. Or that the Explorer is not looked at as an after marketable vehicle, too expensive for some "kid" to buy and want to customize. They are all over the shows with companies using them to show off their work. Much like Navigators and Esclades. However, when the products hit the shelf they are for the cheep cars and pickup trucks.

 

[edlmann]

Edited for brevity.

Originally posted by mweiss
I have had my 1998 Ford Explorer since last December when I bought it just off lease. I love this truck, except for one thing: the lighting is woefully inadequate!

<edited>

I had to do something, so the first thing I did was buy a pair of HID blue lamps--these were 80/100W bulbs with a blue coating on them. The light output was marginally better, but not by any magnitude one would expect, given the wattage gained. The reality was that the voltage at the lamps had decreased to 10 volts with the heavy current these lamps drew. I eventually scraped off the blue coating, which increased light output, but now the light was more yellow. I soon developed a habit of driving while holding the 'flast to pass' lever to get both filaments to stay on. This provided barely adequate light, but after a month, the socket ground terminals burned out. I replaced the sockets with heavy duty sockets and continued. The next thing that happened was the ground terminal on the bulb itself disintigrated. So, back to factory headlamps again for much of this year.

Some things really bother me about driving with these lights: not a night goes by where I don't suffer severe headaches from eye strain. The yellowish light makes everything feel surreal, like in a dream, and I get an overwhelming desire to close my eyes after about 45 mins of driving in the countryside where there are no city lights. I have to drive much slower than I normally would just to be safe, but that exacerbates the sleepiness I experience when driving with dim lights at night.

<edited>

The other option is to install a heavy duty wiring harness with relays and go with either the Sylvania SilverStar series (seems to come in 55/60W version for 9007 type) or the PIAA Platinum Super White in a 100/110W version.

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Theoretically, if both bulbs are receiving 12 volts, then the PIAA should be a lot brighter due to the higher wattage. I think that both bulb types claim output in the 4000°K range, which is pretty close to daylight, or similar to coated mercury-vapor lamps used in street lighting.

I'd recommend the Sylvania XtraVision 9007 bulbs at about half the cost of Silverstars, along with a harness to upgrade to 12 ga wire. The problem you have with the 9007 bulb is the size of the pins on the base of the bulb. They're half the size of the pins on an H-4 bulb. Try giving the bulbs a full 12 volts, which they're not getting with the stock wiring. Remember that the temperature of light only refers to the color. BTW, the XtraVision bulbs are about $12 each, much less the cost of either Silverstars or PIAA bulbs of any sort.

 

[Bill Kemp]

I too was unhappy with the lighting . HID does not seem to be such a good idea for the 9007 bulbs. I tried PIAA , Krypton Optilux ect. The best solution I have found is a high power harness and 80/100 clear bulbs. Nothing puts out more light. You may have to fine tune the alignment of the lights as I did. But now I will match light output w/anyone & I dont get flashed on the road for the lights being too bright.
Good fog lights also help fill in the low beam areas and driving lights do the trick for hign speed night driving.
Others may have lights that look good. (piaa , silverstars ect) but I have lights that allow me to see good.

 

[DocVijay]

Originally posted by Bill Kemp
Others may have lights that look good. (piaa , silverstars ect) but I have lights that allow me to see good.

I'll have to disagree with that. The Silverstars actually do light things up a bit more. I've tried all the brands, and the Sylvanias are pretty good. Plus they look better too.

 

[Jason_25]

Bill, approx. how much did it cost you for the high power harness and bulbs?

Also, are you concerned with damaging wiring after the high power harness?

Thanks....

 

[Bill Kemp]

Harness = $25.00 Bulbs $15.00
Once you have a high power harness you are only using your factory wiring to turn on a relay so you can get the 12 to 14 volts direct from the battery to your lights. Just like an aftermarket fog light set.

Doc. Check out FAQ at www.autobulbdepot.com. There are other places also but I'm at work and dont know where they are....
Basicly, whenever you put a tint on a lightbulb you are reducing the amount of light that can come out of that bulb.
When you get to be an old SOB like me you need more light to see the same as a "in your prime guy".

 

[soupbone]

If you really want extra light look at the new IPF 900 HIDs. Sure thet arent rertro fits or whatever but they have a real good design. Look at the reflectors and lense. The HID ballast is built into the back of the lamp. So monting is easy as any other light. It even includes a wireless remote! These probably put out way more light than any OEM HID headlamp. However running these on road would probably annoy lots of other drivers.

I would like to mount a set on a light bar or roof rack.

http://www.autobulbdepot.com/fr_ipf.tpl?cart=311943386069569

 

[JasonF]

I agree with the replies here, there is not much you can do given the lousy stock housings. I picked up a new set of 55w Pilot Lights off ebay rediculously cheap and mounted them as seen in the pic. Like you, I wanted more light up close when the high beams were on. With these lights I am very happy, there is no dim patch under the high beams anymore. I made custom mounts, but pilot has a kit that is designed especially for this location. I think this is the most cost effective way for you to improve your lighting.